"Cecil" the Lion Hunted and Killed

originally posted by: mindseye1609
a reply to: Annee

I never thought about it like that but it totally is just an adventurous version of a 4H auction.

Some of these hunts do seem way to ez for me but that's me, I'm a seasoned hunter, what about first timers and handicapped people that like to hunt? In the end it's really the most natural way to get your meat and ease of killing shouldn't be looked down upon I reckon, it's nicer to the animals really. If we make it too much of a challenge you run the risk of bad shots and hurt animals.. No one wants that.

Right! How "real" does it need to be?

Do you really need to kill an animal out in the wild that's barely surviving? To say you killed big game?

This makes so much more sense.

My father introduced me to guns. I've shot mostly rifles and shotguns. I have gone quail hunting. Not much meat there.

I still want the facts. And I never trust First Reports.

But, the more I read ---- it almost sounds like Cecil was deliberately targeted.

Was there a secret bet amongst some big game trophy hunters? Makes you wonder.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

No the problem is that you are letting your personal convictions get in the way of the facts in this case which don't fit those convictions. It is illegal to shoot a GPS collared animal, period. He did that. A good hunter is required to understand his target. He did not do that. Therefore, this was wrong. All of the other things you have said make sense and I understand. They just don't happen to apply to this particular case.

a reply to: Annee

Tasty though.
I have shot quail and pheasent. Love to make gamey stew.

Just seen on bbc news that a hige crowd is oitside his house.
Anyone got a hungry lion to slip inside his house?.
I just hope all this attention puts off otjers to go out and hunt like a coward.

originally posted by: abe froman
The hunter has already been in trouble for hunting before, after being caught lying to Federal Wildlife officers about the circumstances surrounding his killing of a Black Bear.

Yep , back in 06 he was fined $3,000 for it.

He is well known in the American hunting community. In 2006, he was found guilty of killing a black bear outside an authorised zone in the state of Wisconsin and lying to authorities about it. He was fined $3,000 (£1,900).
www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: Truth_Hz

Oh he was armed pity the hunter was a coward and did not give the lion a fair fight.

a reply to: vonclod

Lots of women alphas too, ever seem Rhonda Rousey? Go tell her she can't drive and she's gotta wear a burka... She will show you an alpha female real quick.

And when I talk about alphas I'm not talking like Brock lesner, some giant meat head that can physically overpower anything, being alpha takes intelligence too. Using your intelligence and what little physical abilities we have in combination to hunt down and impose your will upon something else is the very definition of alpha.

And lion is eaten all the time. Don't just assume because you don't see it at Wendy's it doesn't get eaten.

a reply to: stargatetravels

That's a good lookin buffalo, what's the story? Cameron Hanes just killed one of these with A BOW! That's like killing a Honda with a bow lol!

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Truth_Hz

Oh he was armed pity the hunter was a coward and did not give the lion a fair fight.

This lion was killed with a Bow. Bow shots are done at very close range. A lion can charge that range at an extremely fast rate. I assure you that there was danger involved.
Thats the whole attraction of hunting Dangerous game. Its an adrenaline rush just like jumping out of an airplane.

a reply to: mindseye1609

No story per se, just British royalty (Prince Harry) getting their kicks.
Just thought I'd share - folks saying it was mainly us doing the hunting (Americans) but it's pretty much anyone with too much time, money and not enough braincells to find a better hobby.

originally posted by: stargatetravels

You MONSTER!!!
Didn't you know that was Buffy the famous buffalo?!!!!

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Just seen on bbc news that a hige crowd is oitside his house.
Anyone got a hungry lion to slip inside his house?.
I just hope all this attention puts off otjers to go out and hunt like a coward.

He has 2 children. Don't know how old they are.

Hope no one gets too crazy.

originally posted by: stargatetravels
a reply to: mindseye1609

No story per se, just British royalty (Prince Harry) getting their kicks.
Just thought I'd share - folks saying it was mainly us doing the hunting (Americans) but it's pretty much anyone with too much time, money and not enough braincells to find a better hobby.

British Royalty has a history of hunting.

I'd suppose regular British folk hunt too.

originally posted by: Dragoon01

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: mindseye1609


Second - Culling older males

Another poor attempt to articulate. Let me separate the myth from the facts for you. Culling older males disrupts the family hierarchy and creates disorder among the younger males. They will begin fighting and competing for females where needless death of breeding males occurs. It devastates the social order of things when you kill the ruling male. It's not natural selection when that happens.

Stop peddling your own crap. This statement is not at all fact it is your opinion.

Look, if you don't understand the rules, you have no business trophy hunting or defending the idiots who do.

As well, it is forbidden to kill a male lion if it's accompanied with a pride, as the next dominant male would then swoop in and kill off all the offspring. Johnny Rodrigues, chairman of the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force, told CBC Radio's As It Happens that a lion will likely kill Cecil's six cubs.

www.cbc.ca...

Crap eh?

Recently, several studies have also determined that poorly managed commercial trophy hunting of lions represents yet another threat to the species. Due to their incredible size and beautiful manes, mature males are preferred by hunters. However, the removal of resident ‘pride males’ disrupts social balance, often leading to accelerated rates of infanticide in which trophy-hunted male lions are replaced by new male lions who kill the pride’s cubs in order to speed up estrus in females and spread their unique genes. Where hunting is poorly managed, the combined effect of killing males and infanticide can have serious impacts on lion populations.

wildlife-warriors.com...

More crap?

So, when human hunters make their kills based on the preference of pride Alpha males (for the manes) they disrupt the natural genetic "stir". Young males do not end up leaving the pride. They don't have to with the "old man" out of the way. Mothers and sisters get bred by males barely showing mane. By the time they get maned they too are hunted, as the preference of poachers and licensed hunters. That leaves yet another cycle of male offspring breeding back into the same genetic pool. Three generations of this (generations are short when 3 year old new-maned lions are pruned out) and the pool is so inbred that disease and sterility begins to emerge as natural weaknesses. Wildlife biologists are already observing this scenario.

www.catman1.com...

And I like how you've got absolutely nothing to say about my eco-tourism point. Actually, I take back the value for Cecil being 8 hundred K alive, more like millions over periods of time. You're killing the goose that lays golden eggs. You don't know what you're talking about.

OK I looked more into Hunting permits through some contacts because I thought it odd a Hwange national park allows hunting. I was advised you are NOT permitted to hunt in Hwange. It is not designated as a lion quota zone. If the animals go out of park you can with the correct permit hunt them but cannot hunt a collared animal and the zone they enter must be designated as a lion quota zone.

The hunters tied a dead animal to the truck to lure Cecil and the area and also scented the area outside the park to lure. It is also stated by authorities the hunting guides and land owner DID NOT have a hunting permit to even shoot the animal off Hwange on that farm. The farm was never assigned as a lion quota therefore making the hunt illegal.

The head was found and impounded at Vic Falls (closest airport I am assuming but not sure) as evidence.

Now back to the permits, I asked about the contracts and trophy fees, and the fee for the dentist paid is WAY above what other companies charge, the fees range from $20, 000 -$25 000 and a highly prized white male tops out at 30 000.
My suspicion then is the dentist paid a bribe willingly or unwittingly. an extra $25-$30 grand went to someone... Unless he included his accommodation package in the fee paid. From what I can see most reports state the trophy fee was $55 000. Even still I can't see the accommodation costing $30K. When I REVIEWED accommodation rates offered with 6 other trophy hunt tour operators the daily rack rate (highest you'll pay) is between $450- 850 daily for food and board (meals).

So that so something I am interested to get clarity on. If the $55 000 fee was just the trophy fee, then Id say there was dirty money changing hands.

If it was a legit 55K trophy fee then he is an even bigger idiot as he could have paid half with everyone else.....
So in my eyes he is either a criminal or a moron.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Sadly being stupid doesn't allow for incarceration...

I read into this guys bear case pretty closely and he's definitely pulled shady stuff in the past. Every keeps throwing this bear thing around without details. He shot a bear 40 miles outside of the zone he's supposed to get hunting in and then convinced his buddies to help lie. I'm assuming one of them rolled or something there was no gps collar.

Biologists and conservationists choose the zones your allowed to hunt in VERY VERY carefully, huntin outside those zones is no different then poaching, you could be taking one of the last male bears in a certain valley for whatever reason. So by him knowingly violating that and trying to convince his friends to help really does show a beginnings to bad behavior.

a reply to: mindseye1609

I have no issues with alpha males..I sure the hell wouldn`t rub Rousey the wrong way either..lol, with all due respect whoever posted it was some kind of envy is..just wrong. Go au natural with just a blade between your teeth after a lion or simular trophy hunt and you get my alpha male vote.
I just have no understanding of trophy hunts, sorry but I cannnot help thinking something is just a bit off in someone who just wants to stick an animals head on the wall, or got off on the thrill of killing it Hunting game meat is fine by me, my father would go out and get deer or moose sometimes..he had no love for trophy hunts either.
I think I have heard one reference here to eating big cat(mountain lion) and not good eating at all..and thats from the natives who will occasionaly eat bear, also debatably not good eating..I wont argue the point though as its possible.

One more thing on alpha male..I agree it can be about intelligence..when I hear the word I think..leader not so much killer.
Cheers