Boy Scouts lift ban on gay leaders

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: TKDRL


I understand being protective, but from what you said, you are going to trust a straight Man with your Son over a Gay man

That is not how I read it. He basically said he trusts NO ONE with his kids. I can dig that. I feel the same way but damn they grow up and say, "BACK OFF."

a reply to: Darth_Prime
Yes, why is that a problem? I am gonna trust a straight man over a women as well. Unless I know the gay guy, like if it was my cousin, no problem. He is a good dude, and I know that. Same as if it was a women I knew, no issue.

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

The First Case of Sexual Abuse from a Scout Master should make Headline News , you just Know it will Happen Sooner or Later with that Decision .

I'm reading some comments on Facebook from the local news story about this...

People are acting like all these gay men are going to come running out of the woods and demand to become scout leaders now because they "can".

*sarcasm on*

Yes, now droves and armies of gay men will take over the BSA and try to forcefully convert your child into being gay.

*sarcasm off*

In reality, I would expect the number of gay men who want adult leadership position with scout troops will be insanely low. The only reason this is an issue is because of the odd one or two adult leaders who happen to be gay. Let's all get some perspective.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
In reality, I would expect the number of gay men who want adult leadership position with scout troops will be insanely low.

IDK MM. If they are parents. Maybe. If they are parents and grew up in a military family they would be well equipped to do it as well.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

" The only reason this is an issue is because of the odd one or two adult leaders who happen to be gay .."

Or happen to be Pedophiles ......

a reply to: intrepid

I think what we'll see is more boys IN scouts not hiding their sexuality. Remember there are ages 15-18 year old boys, and some know they are gay at that age.

There might be former scouts that are gay that may want to help out, but considering the climate regarding gay people -- most gay men without kids in the troop wouldn't bother.

There isn't a tremendously high population of two-men families with a adolescent boy. This really isn't going to be a huge deal. I'm sure if they want to get their kid into scouts, they'll find a gay-friendly troop.

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: Sremmos80

Well of course there is, no more likely then a straight guy to be so though.

Lol, I've never heard of a straight homo, we are talking about the Boy Scouts right?

Was talking a straight pedophile.

You can have a wife and still be a pedo that preys in boys.

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Should it not already??

Or is it not headline news because it was done by a straight man.

And you know what? Being a pedo is a sexual preference just like straight or gay!

Pedophiles are attracted, primarily, to children. The sex of those children matter less than that they are children. The sex of victim has more to do with access than sexual orientation.

The US Catholic Bishops commissioned a study on priestly child sex abuse from John Jay College. John Jay researcher Margaret Smith reported back to the Bishops on early findings from their study. From the USA Today:

We do not find a connection between homosexual identity and the increased likelihood of subsequent abuse from the data that we have right now ... It's important to separate the sexual identity and the behavior. Someone can commit sexual acts that might be of a homosexual nature but not have a homosexual identity.

Link

a reply to: MystikMushroom
And just like regular sexuality, it's not cut and dry. Some pedophiles are only attracted to one or the other, some are attracted to both.

a reply to: TKDRL

You're looking at minority within an already small minority.

Not sure why there should be any debate over this?

I spent 7 years caring for kids, most whom had been abused in some way or another......not one incident was by someone who was gay.

Just saying.

CX.

a reply to: TKDRL

Well, if you automatically Assume that someone is Safe with a Straight person that is a stranger over a Gay person is a Stranger, or even a Woman

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

Lord Robert Baden-Powell the founder of The Boy Scout Movement was a " Repressed Homosexual"

I think he would have welcomed this news.

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

I remember back in the naive old days of the 1950s, a lot of their educational films about drugs and sex were pretty funny. One about homosexuality portrayed gay men as predators for little boys. Apparently the recent controversy in Russia about homosexuality relates to symantics and how "gay" in their language combines homosexuality and pedophilia in the same word.

Either way, I think this is good news. I guess standard gay men would make for good Boy Scout leaders either way. But even if there is some bias in the general education of boy scouts concerning sexuality, particularly homosexuality... I think that's probably not that bad either. As a gay man, I know how confusing it is for young people to deal with those subjects. Plus, at those ages it's pretty much a natural curiosity.

With over-population I think more gay people is a good thing!

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

why is this behaviour being encouraged among children instead of helping them??

I think there's a lot of Peodo's running these schools and groups and they want to have fun with the boys!

To me, it's disgusting the Authorities are encouraging it..

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: MystikMushroom
No, not really. Especially when it comes to putting people in charge of them overnight. It complicates things a bit, like scouts, when overnight is a regular thing in the summers.

Ah! Here is where I think the misconception might be:

Cub Scouting ranks and ages:

Tiger: 6 years or first grade
Wolf: 7 years or 2nd grade
Bear: 8 years or 3rd grade
Webelos: 9 years or 4th grade
Webelos 2: 10 years or 5th grade.

Tigers are required to have their parents with them at all times. Den meetings, pack meetings and any scout outings.
Wolf: parents are not required to be with them at Den meetings. We do want them at pack meetings, and are always required at any over night outing.
Bears: Same as the Wolves.

Webelos 1 and 2: this is where things start to change. Just as the Wolves and Bears, they do not have to be at the Den meetings if they do not want to be there, but we still like them at the pack meetings. Outings, this is where the boys can start camping over night as long as there is enough registered adult leaders and parents there, without their parents having to be there, but only if they give permission. It should be noted that parents wanting to camp out with them are more than welcome to do so! This is to get them ready for Boy Scouts when they do a lot more camping.

Boy Scouts: Parents are not required to attend Troop meetings, Court of Honor or any over night outings. However: they are very much welcome to join us on ALL camp outs!

At no point does the BSA require a parent to not be there for their child. In fact: we encourage parents to join their child in every thing.

While Scouting tries to help teach the boys to be self reliant and about team work, the fact is: all of our adult registered leaders are volunteers.

And the best way to get volunteers is to get the parents themselves involved!

You seem to think (and I apologize if I'm wrong in my thinking here) that Scouting is nothing more than Day Care for kids.
We do have parents that treat it like that, and we try our best to get them involved, mainly so they are spending time with their child, but also with hopes that they'll help us. Even if they do not become registered leaders with the BSA, there is still a multitude of things that parents can help with.

Normally over time, especially with smaller Packs and Troops, parents get to know one another and the leaders quite well.

So it would seem your mistrust is misplaced: The BSA does not require you to leave your child alone. In fact, until they are Webelos or Boy Scouts, the BSA needs you to be with your child. But even then you do not have to leave your child alone at any point or any time.

This includes the week long summer camp that Boy Scouts do, or the 3 day long Resident Camp that Webelos do during the summer. The more parents we get also camping out, the better! More potential adults who might become registered leaders in the BSA.

a reply to: Darth_Prime

I see where your upset comes from, but I honestly see his point.

If i had a young daughter and said she was going camping under supervision of an adult i did not know, i would feel safer knowing that the adult was a strait woman or a gay man, rather than a man or a gay woman, and no prejudice of sexuality comes into play.

I would not want someone who is attracted to my childs sex to be responsible for them. A stranger who is a gay man looking after a young boy to me is not any more worrisome than a stranger woman looking after a young boy. Not just out of protection of my child, but i would myself not wish to be responsible for a camping trip of young girls unless i knew them and their families well. It just avoids any chance of being painted as a sexual predator.

It is a signal of distrust, but not of homosexuality by any means. A distrust of people in positions of power over my child.

Of course i am not saying that a woman looking after a son/man looking after a daughter is likely to be predatory, but it would play on my mind, because i do not trust without it being earned. The same goes for a gay man looking after my son, or a lesbian looking after my daughter. None of the adults, gay or strait, are automatically predators, but caution in itself is not discriminatory.

I know you have a lot of fight, and a lot to fight for, but in this case i think TKDRL is justified. When i read his first post i instantly thought 'homophobe' (so quick to judge, on the internet) but reading his reasoning it is neither homophobic or paranoid, its just fatherly worry.

I dont think it was a sleight at the LGBTQ people.

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

What behavior is being encouraged among the children? Do you think the scoutmaster would last long if he was teaching sexuality, be it gay or strait? Or is it the acceptance of homosexuals that is being encouraged amongst the kids?

Its no crime to dislike homosexuals, so if it became a problem with parents then im sure they would send their kids elsewhere, and if it was the majority of parents who were anti-gay then a gay scoutmaster would not last long either. Sure there would be a fuss about discrimination, but i would assume the governing bodies would try to deal with it before it got to that state, so i see no issue.

Or are you worried that kids, upon seeing that their scoutmaster was gay, would start to think of sexuality as not a terrible thing?