Once Saved Always Saved or Lost Salvation???

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I'm of course not going to bother qualifying myself to say this, but yep your still saved.

Grace is a wonderful thing. Once you see what it's about understand about being positive with your life, and continue to do some thriving and enjoying life on a continual basis. It's catchy lol.

The thing about it is the judgement stopped some time ago.

From what I have gathered, the higher power lives in the present and future not in our past....he/she/it doesn't like to get dirty.

Within religion we cause our own struggles, it's within the mind.

If you are free, then you are free indeed.

A book , ten books....more.
They are all meant to be read not made holier than the thing they are about.

How to reap what you sow with a stiff upper lip and all that. I live near a lot of farmers lol.

Cheers to ya!

originally posted by: Liquesence
I think that many people who got "saved" and think they are saved, aren't truly "saved."

Sad but true.

Few are going to make it to Heaven...

Cheap grace is the idea that "grace" did it all for me so I do not need to change my lifestyle. The believer who accepts the idea of "cheap grace" thinks he can continue to live like the rest of the world. Instead of following Christ in a radical way, the Christian lost in cheap grace thinks he can simply enjoy the consolations of his grace. ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

I think the 'church' is so completely out of touch with reality that it boggles the mind...

Two videos that illustrate this perfectly:
Ex-witch Ana Mendez's testimony also contains a powerful illustration of this...

@35:30 min:

The greatest lie the devil has infiltated is that a sinner is a saved person, that a sinner can be a Spirit filled person. There is no where in the Bible and I challenge anyone here, theres no one in the Bible that considers a sinner a saved person.

@46:40 min:

Sin trespasses the spirit... we have changed the gospel and that is why we have so many people so full of demons. Because the gospel has been so watered down...

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 1 John 3:6-10

We train people to repeat little things and we have turned the most powerful gospel, the most powerful essence of God in the world into little formulas that have millions of people bound up to lies. That's how we train our disciples today, this is what you have to say, this is what you don't have to say, we teach them how to discuss, but not how to manifest the Glory that destroys the enemy.

a reply to: Murgatroid

I could see there being some conspiracy in the past to spread a once saved always saved doctrine, in efforts to bring more people under control of the flock. Kind of reminds me of when the Vatican sold Indulgences. I wonder when once saved always saved first came about on the scene.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Murgatroid

I could see there being some conspiracy in the past to spread a once saved always saved doctrine, in efforts to bring more people under control of the flock. Kind of reminds me of when the Vatican sold Indulgences. I wonder when once saved always saved first came about on the scene.

I think you understand. Yes this type of Grace is not found in the bible.

It is not hard to follow the 10 commandments. Here are the first two simplified.

1. Always follow the voice of Love/Morality and Reason/Logic (God's voice within you) to obey the 10 commandments.

2. Don't let any material things separate you from the internal voice of Love and Reason.

This is the foundation of the first 2 commandments. Follow those and God will forgive you for turning your back on religion.

Although it is better to have faith in God and establish a true connection to the Divinity found in the Voice of Love and Reason, the Holy Spirit. If you follow the command to Love your neighbors by not hurting them, you will be forgiven.

The temporal laws were guidance given to help us as we struggle to understand the Spiritual.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Will we see each other in Heaven? Or has my name (and those of other former Christians) been blotted from the Book of Life?

The answer to this, my fellow traveler, is above my pay grade.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
I wonder when once saved always saved first came about on the scene.

The doctrine of once-saved-always-saved is a new belief introduced approximately fifty years ago by secular progressive clergy eager to lift the “burden” of God’s Word off the backs of unrepentant sinners. Prior to then there was not one major denomination that preached or believed the once-saved-always-saved lie many now consider Gospel.

ONCE-SAVED-ALWAYS-SAVED IS A DEADLY LIE

God told Howard Pittman during his NDE that not all the sayers would be in heaven, but all the doers would be.

Hell is FULL of so called "Christians" who were only SAYERS instead of DOERS!

On August 3, 1979, Howard Pittman, a Baptist minister for 35 years, died while on the operating table during surgery and had a near-death experience.

Instead of allowing me to enter, the angel stationed me before the Gates, slightly to one side. He instructed me to stay there and watch as the saints were permitted to enter into Heaven. This point was so important that the Holy Spirit told me Himself. I watched the fifty saints enter Heaven, but the point I missed was the time frame involved.

It was explained to me that at the same time those fifty saints died on Earth, 1,950 other humans also died; or only 50 out of 2000 made it into Heaven. That other 1,950 were not there. Where were they? That was only 2 ½ percent going to Heaven! Ninety seven point five percent did not make it! Is that representative of the entire world today? If so, 97 ½ percent of the population of this world today is not ready to meet God.

Placebo by Howard Pittman

Christians in Hell

The two angels escorted me to Hell. I then saw many pastors, elders, and deacons in Hell. I asked the angel, “I know them. They had served God faithfully while on the Earth. They had died some time ago. We all had thought they were in Heaven with God. But now, I see them all in Hell and they are crying out that it is so hot! Why are they here?” There were so many pastors, elders, deacons and all other lay believers.

The angel answered, “Pastor Park Yong Gyu, a person can appear to be a true follower of Christ on the outside but God knows the heart.

There are multitudes of churches on the Earth and many of the churches are filled with many people. However, most of them are not true Christians. They are but church attendants. The true churches will firmly believe in Heaven and a Hell. The lives of many Christians are in chaos because they do not firmly believe in Heaven and Hell. When one soul enters Heaven, one thousand cursed souls enter Hell. The rate of Heaven and Hell is 1 to 1000.” (Matt 7:14)

Heaven & Hell 1000 to 1

Bishop Wilfred Lai is the founder and senior Pastor of Jesus Celebration Center in Mombasa, Kenya and it is a church of over 15,000 members. One day he asked the Lord how many of them were ready for heaven and the Lord told him only 200. Only 1% of that church is going to heaven! Dr. Lai said that some pastors have created large groups of sinners meeting in the name of God. “What you have are not churches, but large congregations of sinners.”

Message from Pastor Wilfred Lai

a reply to: Murgatroid

Yes but then if "heaven" exists....or doesn't for folks then it still is what it is.

Positivity in your life on a more than casual basis is a good thing and good news, doesn't always take anything extra, if it's good then it's good.

If the interpretation of life is negative than it takes only oneself to turn it around, it's a hard pill to swallow.

Context does not relate to what is. Does an omnipotent being need to follow name and pretext?

It is what it is, if it was a bush on fire or whatever, would it matter?

Same message more than around everything.....life and a definition of it.


Peace, love and prosperity is my wish for you, if it mattered.

Cheers

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

From my point of view:
I believe in a evolution of the soul and a layered existence.

Sooner or later all souls make it to the highest level but some souls cannot be allowed on the highest levels directly with free will since they are not healthy but are quite insane and beast like. The soul shine thru what it is even on this level.

Sometimes being from a higher layer fall down here. Doing the tourist thing or sometimes getting dumped for bad behavior. This place in between is both a school, tourist resort and a prison.

Yeshua taught that a sheep is a sheep not matter the view and that many people would say his name but not follow his teaching but do the opposite. (Sheeps and goats). If Yeshua can see thru ego manipulation of false praising then so can every other higher level spirit also.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Obviously, my path in life took a different route. So my question to the theologically minded here at ATS. Will we see each other in Heaven? Or has my name (and those of other former Christians) been blotted from the Book of Life?

That is not a valid question for anyone outside of Jesus. Actually no one can answer that because no one has that right from God. Any person who confesses their sins to Jesus and seeks forgiveness can be forgiven regardless of the sin except the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit God. Judgment of a person is the authority of Christ Jesus and not of other people.

originally posted by: Treespeaker
Yes but then if "heaven" exists....or doesn't for folks then it still is what it is. Positivity in your life on a more than casual basis is a good thing and good news, doesn't always take anything extra, if it's good then it's good. If the interpretation of life is negative than it takes only oneself to turn it around, it's a hard pill to swallow. Context does not relate to what is. Does an omnipotent being need to follow name and pretext? It is what it is, if it was a bush on fire or whatever, would it matter? Same message more than around everything.....life and a definition of it.

I'm afraid I am at a complete loss as to what you are saying...

I suspect that it's simply a language barrier.

Can you elaborate?

If anyone else can interpret or perhaps answer that would good as well...

a reply to: Seede

Your wrong.

It is done.


From the truth.

Would you invalidate your belief? Is it not done?



Was done a long time ago.

Peace and harmony is a state of mind.....how to get there is a narrow path.



The little secret is....hold breath tightly.....we get there together.



And this from a gnostic hermit.

Great Question that I have asked myself many times to Christian friends. I also was raised Christian, even studied to be a Minister, which required me REALLY reading the Book, so I did, multiply times and now am Pagan!! So, I feel you! The Answer to your question in the good old Southern Baptist mode I was brought up with by my family is YES. Yes you are still Saved.
But with a condition, being that you have not Blasphemed against the Holy Ghost. Which if your like me and like to joke around with Religious themes, you most likely have also crossed that Eternal Sin Line.
The verse this stems from is : Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, all sins and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, ‘He has an evil spirit’."
So See you in Hell if they are Right,, but we both know they are not, so No Worries. Your Safe, just maybe not Saved any longer.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I WAS saved at my baptism, I'm in the process of BEING saved by how I live my life, and I hope WILL BE saved on the day I die.

This is the teaching of the church that Jesus founded, The Catholic Church. The Church that has the final authority...that is, holds the keys.

Authority and tradition is a nice thing to fall back on. What did the very first Christians believe? We have their writings. These people knew Jesus in the flesh.

Someone has to have the final say, and Jesus entrusted that to his church, lead by the Holy Spirit, The Catholic Church.

That's biblical. That's also recorded history.

"Once saved, always saved" is ridiculous. It doesn't even make common sense. It's not only unbiblical, it's illogical.

Has anyone noticed in this thread that most contributors are atheist and talking about being saved?

No pun attended but this is funny to me. I am not attacking anyone and it is not personal but....cmon why even talk about the subject when you separated yourself from Christianity? Can't you open a thread without discussing a religion subject?

Why even discuss religious texts in the first place if you do not believe them? Do you know what this is called?

It is called TROLLING so this is a clear case of trolling. Personally I enjoy discussing religion with atheist with the hope one day they will reconsider their decision concerning Christianity.

And by the way......once saved always saved is a lie even though the Baptist church (and others) teaches this fallacy.

Any name in the book of Life can be removed.

NOPE....I will not show you where it says this in the bible.....why? You don't believe anyway.........

I just don't get it........ WHY DISCUSS A SUBJECT THAT YOU CLEARLY REJECT.......TIME AND TIME AGAIN!

EXAMPLE- I am not a homosexual and I can not see me every becoming one. I am clearly against this SIN and personally I find it revolting and since I do; I don't discuss this subject I don't open numerous threads about this subject.

According to ATS rules and regulations TROLLING is wrong..........

SO MODS what's up? Why do you allow this?

According to The Gospel, actions are important and then you get the reward:

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" - Luke 6:46

"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful." - Luke 6:35-36

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again." - Luke 6:37-38

A baby was born and by all appearances was just another little tyke that learned how to talk and walk and do all the things that little kids normally do. In this state of infancy was this child guilty of sin? Was this child loved by his creator? By foreknowledge God knew if this child was to be with Him forever or if this child would not be worthy of salvation. The mom or dad probably never even thought about this.

Question is --
The child grew up and lived under the name of Hermann Goring and became the founder of the famed German SS and was second in command of Hitlers empire. At wars end was tried and convicted of mass murder in the Nuremberg trials and sentenced to hang for his crimes but committed suicide the day before execution.

When did God stop loving Hermann or did God ever stop loving Hermann? Better yet did God ever love Hermann? If God could be never wrong and if He, by foreknowledge, knew that Hermann would do as he did could God have ever loved him from before he was even born?

You can now see that all of this is a matter too deep for us to really understand. We could even speculate as to was Hermann in the right frame of mind or if suicide is a mortal sin and unforgivable. Could Hermann Goring have confessed to Christ Jesus and is now in the kingdom of heaven? Is it possible? Are we judges?

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Question:

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Why even discuss religious texts in the first place if you do not believe them?

Answer (Daily Double):

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Personally I enjoy discussing religion with atheist with the hope one day they will reconsider their decision concerning Christianity.

But in my case swap the positions of the Christian and the Atheist in this sentence.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I don't hold to "once saved, always saved" but rather to the "Perseverance of the Saints". Those that are saved will persevere in the Christian life until death (or Christ's return).

Will we see each other in heaven? That I can't answer. You say you're an atheist now, but I don't (and can't!) know how God may work in your life to bring you back to him.

a reply to: octotom

That's pretty easy actually...

God works in everyones life, regardless of what they believe in... and whether or not they know it.

Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

a reply to: Akragon

Here you're referring to what's known as "common grace". I'm not referring to this, rather to God's special grace.

John 6:44:

»No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.«

Philippians 1:6:

»And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.«