WTC-7 Mysteries FINALLY Solved.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: matadoor

I'm one of the biggest Libertarians on the planet, and even I don't think any government is capable of pulling off such an elaborate stunt, hell they can't even get my taxes right.

So, you agree, that there was a staff of people who sat there for decades, just waiting for the right time to light that candle, huh? And no one noticed.

You do know that almost 3000 people died and that the entire attack was ran by Osama Bin Ladin, and last I checked, he was not coordinating attacks with the CIA or any other shadow government.

So you don't think that a group of very powerful and influential men from both industry and government couldn't plan and pull it off, yet a man who lived in a cave on the other side of the planet could?

Where is your logical critical thinking....

Finally, the crux of the biscuit. I was waiting for this one.

There is, absolutely no way, that any group of people, no matter how powerful they may be, who could hide and cover up decades of work, as you have said, without leaving a TON of traces. Not in the middle of New York City.

Area 51? Sure. New York City and it's massive union work force? Not a chance in hell. That would be called worst case environment for any clandestine operation. Union workers talk. It's what they do.

Can a fanatical man in a cave arrange for his followers to travel to America, get trained on flying aircraft (taking off and flying but not landing - who needs to learn that when you have no plans to safely LAND) then buy them tickets for flights, and have them take over the planes by brute force, something they were trained to do, then fly the planes into the towers (and the Pentagon, and that field in PA), knowing that they were told that as soon as they die, they have virgins waiting for them in heaven. I hope they got Sturgeons instead, BTW.

And don't try to tell me the planes didn't exist. I knew the Captain on American Flight 11, he's still as dead today as he was then and yes I still help his family he left behind.

Again Monty, I take door #2.

Why? Because that's what happened. Everything else, is fantasy island.

a reply to: matadoor

It sounds from your posts that you are very familiar with Fantasy Island. Likely you've been living there for the last 14 years.

Some of us have awakened from the trance.

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: matadoor

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: matadoor

Sorry I don't have a link as it's old news, but work on the elevators and other inside projects was performed for many months prior to the attacks.

People WERE working on construction projects inside the buildings. I want to say something comical like Acme Elevator Company, right out of Roadrunner cartoons.

I want to see eye witness reports, and explain to me where the 20 or so tractor trailers full of required materials and gear were parked while this fairy tale operation took place.

I also want to see the Union shop Stewart's reports clearing any "unauthorized" union workers (and yes any elevator maintenance person would have to get cleared through the shop Stewart's office too) who were working on the building in the weeks and months prior to the towers falling.

These records are kept forever, with copies kept at the local Union offices.

Produce these, and we might have some place to start a conspiracy theory.

Until then, just read my avatar.

Oh yeah, one more edit. In NY, any time you do work in any building, they will also assign any team of workers a Union journeyman, who will shadow all work being done to make sure additional union workers are not required.

Please provide us with these reports that show that someone watched teams of people installing explosives, or do you think they paid off all of these people to never say a single word that explosives were being installed, and yes it would be obvious to even my mother in law as to what was going on.

Facts and reality really do suck for conspiracy theories.

Considering that the 14th anniversary of the event is just days away, and you still do not quite realize the massive deception involved, and that you have not informed yourself about the many details of the deception, I won't waste my time digging around here and there to find links. If all these years later you are still so uninformed, I expect that your avatar meter for BS does not really work. That is, it appears you have bought into the BS and still don't know the difference. Your meter must have a short in it.

Oh no, my meter is wide open and functioning on all cylinders.

READ my note and inform me. Where are the shop stewarts reports on the work that was done on the Thermite charges? Because no person would have been allowed to enter any of those buildings without it.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: matadoor

It sounds from your posts that you are very familiar with Fantasy Island. Likely you've been living there for the last 14 years.

Some of us have awakened from the trance.

And some of us live in the real world called reality. Name a single thing that I've said or asked for that's fantasy. I deal in REALITY.

a reply to: matadoor

If one still believes the official story, one does not "deal in reality".

It seems my standards for proof must be much higher than yours. So far, nobody, including yourself, has been able to prove to me that the story about 911 is true. Indeed, the facts themselves prove the story to be false.

Peace, out.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Korg Trinity

Oh I don't know... Perhaps the 2.5 trillion immediate gains, not to mention the Insurance claims,

It's sad for someone who calls them self a scientist to not think rationally.
Just what bank could you deposit 2.5 trillion?
Just how could any group of people spend 2.5 trillion?

As to the insurance claims you have never bothered to look up the insurance settlement for 911.
To believe all of these wacky claims with out proof is not science.
I suggest sir, you are not a scientist in any form.
I suggest sir, you do not have a degree in any form.

I suggest you look more deeply at this subject.









Insurance...... Looked up.....

Owner of World Trade Center is trying to sue airlines for BILLIONS for 9/11 attacks... even though he was already paid $5billion in insurance

Owner of World Trade Center is trying to sue airlines for BILLIONS for 9/11 attacks... even though he was already paid $5billion in insurance

The owner of the World Trade Center is arguing in federal court that the airlines who planes were flown into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001 should pay him billions in compensation.

Larry Silverstein is attempting to collect $3.5billion from United Airlines, US Airways and American Airlines - on top of nearly $5billion he has already received from his insurance company.

U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein in Manhattan is listening to arguments on both sides before he will rule on whether Silverstein's World Trade Center Properties can file a lawsuit against the airlines.

He is expected to rule from the bench as soon as several witnesses conclude testifying in the trial expected to last about three days. Arguments began on Monday.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: matadoor

If one still believes the official story, one does not "deal in reality".

It seems my standards for proof must be much higher than yours. So far, nobody, including yourself, has been able to prove to me that the story about 911 is true. Indeed, the facts themselves prove the story to be false.

Peace, out.

No, my ability to sense Bullsh!T is far more tuned than your is, obviously.

@Skyeagle

I don't think genuine truthers overlook that Jowenko said that explosives did not bring down WTC1 and WTC2,
but for a CT theory you only need a single point of doubt.

WTC 7 did certainly fall at free fall speed which is even in the NIST report. We are referring to the global collapse,
not the pre weakening phase.

@Matadoor

Thanks for your license Matadoor, I also once did the same for my M.Sc. theoretical physics and also painted my name black (privacy is our right). The debunker (at the former JREF) thought I grabbed it from the web somewhere, but I believe you.

I've heard once from a CD expert (I cannot prove he was a CD expert but I also believed him just like you) that thermite has been used for pre-weakening in a couple of buildings; he listed a couple of them. This means that it wasn't used for the global initiation but for weakening the structure. Do you know anything about that ?

Furthermore what is your opinion about Jowenko who didn't believe the official 7wtc story (he blasted for about 30 years at that time). Was he a nutcase ? He didn't make any money from it and wasn't a 9/11 truther, but only an expert who gave his opinion.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

I have looked into the 2.3 trillion. I know that it was first publicly mentioned over a year before 9/11/01. That it was mentioned before Rumsfeld was SecDef. That, it was never missing money. That it was accounting adjustments made that outside auditors did not believe there was enough documentation to support. And, that they were still reconciling it after 9/11/01. Only those who willingly choose to remain uninformed thinks the 2.3 trillion has ANYTHING to do with 9/11.

Then the insurance. Again, only those who choose to remain misinformed think that Silverstein made money. The insurance money, was not enough to rebuild the site. Hell, he has paid out more than 1.5 billion just in RENT to the Port Authority since 9/11...just to preserve his rights to rebuild.

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: Korg Trinity

I have looked into the 2.3 trillion. I know that it was first publicly mentioned over a year before 9/11/01. That it was mentioned before Rumsfeld was SecDef. That, it was never missing money. That it was accounting adjustments made that outside auditors did not believe there was enough documentation to support. And, that they were still reconciling it after 9/11/01. Only those who willingly choose to remain uninformed thinks the 2.3 trillion has ANYTHING to do with 9/11.

Then the insurance. Again, only those who choose to remain misinformed think that Silverstein made money. The insurance money, was not enough to rebuild the site. Hell, he has paid out more than 1.5 billion just in RENT to the Port Authority since 9/11...just to preserve his rights to rebuild.

Obviously not, or you would know that he was awarded 7 billion.... given that he was able to claim two separate events.

And if you think that the DOD is so incompetent that they simply miscalculated the 2.3 trillion dollars then you are living in cloud cookoo land.

originally posted by: drommelsboef

Furthermore what is your opinion about Jowenko who didn't believe the official 7wtc story (he blasted for about 30 years at that time). Was he a nutcase ? He didn't make any money from it and wasn't a 9/11 truther, but only an expert who gave his opinion.

I realize you are not addressing me... but I wanted to post a video for those that do not know about Jowenko.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

Nope. I live in reality like Skyeagle does. And, I will point out that it isn't "miscalculations" at all. Its numbers entered into one of over a dozen different, incompatable computer systems that the Pentagon used to keep track of its finances....and again....it was an issue long before Rumsfeld was SecDef.

Then the insurance....


Rebuilding...more than $9 billion
www.nytimes.com...

Silverstein loses case against airlines (site rebuild up to $10 billion...of which 4.1 was the insurance payout)
www.wsj.com...


Again, only someone who chooses to remain uninformed thinks he made money off of 9/11

a reply to: Korg Trinity

Obviously not, or you would know that he was awarded 7 billion.... given that he was able to claim two separate events.

He was not able to claim 2 separate events.
He did not receive the 7 billion he wanted.

After a four-day bench trial in Lower Manhattan this week, U.S. District Court Judge Alvin Hellerstein ruled that an investment group led by Mr. Silverstein had already received all the compensation for which it is eligible: the $4.1 billion paid by property insurers in 2004.

a reply to: Salander

If one still believes the official story, one does not "deal in reality".

Truthers live in a fantasy world, They have shown that they are not in the habit of doing homework and have readily accepted disinformation on a regular basis.

In fact, they have been unable to provide evidence that support their claims.

And still, none of my questions are answered.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

Let's take a look at Danny Jowenko.

Danny Jowenko

Danny Jowenko has made it quite clear that, in his expert opinion, the collapses of WTC1 and WTC2 could not possibly have been brought about by the use of explosives.

He has explained his reasons for this opinion perfectly clearly; since the collapses initiated in the regions struck by airliners and engulfed in fires, the fires would have set off the demolition charges uncontrollably, and much sooner than the actual collapse initiation times.

s1.zetaboards.com...

a reply to: Korg Trinity

Obviously not, or you would know that he was awarded 7 billion.... given that he was able to claim two separate events.

You continue to prove my point that truthers spread disinformation on a regular basis because Silverstein did not get $7 billion as you falsely claim.

Case in point:

Silverstein Loses Battle Over 9/11 Payouts

A federal judge rejected developer Larry Silverstein's bid to recover billions of dollars from two airlines whose planes were used in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

www.karendemarco.com...


Silverstein Can’t Get $3.5 Billion From Airlines for 9/11

Real estate developer Larry Silverstein can’t seek $3.5 billion from airlines whose planes were hijacked by terrorists and flown into the World Trade Center’s twin towers on Sept. 11, 2001, a judge ruled.

Silverstein, who leased the skyscrapers about two months before they were destroyed, already collected $4.1 billion from insurers and can’t collect twice under New York law, U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein ruled yesterday in a courtroom less than a mile and a half from the World Trade Center site.

www.bloomberg.com...

In other words, Silverstein did not collect $7 billion as you had falsely claimed.

And if you think that the DOD is so incompetent that they simply miscalculated the 2.3 trillion dollars then you are living in cloud cookoo land.

Let's take a look at the rest of the story.

Rumsfeld and the $2.3 trillion

For years, DoD and congressional officials have sought to reconcile defense financial documents to determine where billions in expenditures have gone. That money didn't fall down a hole, but is simply waiting to be accounted for, Zakheim said in a Feb. 14 interview with the American Forces Information Service. Complicating matters, he said, is that DoD has 674 different computerized accounting, logistics and personnel systems.

Most of the 674 systems "don't talk to one another unless somebody 'translates,'" he remarked. This situation, he added, makes it hard to reconcile financial data.

DoD financial experts, Zakheim said, are making good progress reconciling the department's "lost" expenditures, trimming them from a prior estimated total of $2.3 trillion to $700 billion. And, he added, the amount continues to drop.

www.911myths.com...

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Korg Trinity

Obviously not, or you would know that he was awarded 7 billion.... given that he was able to claim two separate events.

He was not able to claim 2 separate events.
He did not receive the 7 billion he wanted.

After a four-day bench trial in Lower Manhattan this week, U.S. District Court Judge Alvin Hellerstein ruled that an investment group led by Mr. Silverstein had already received all the compensation for which it is eligible: the $4.1 billion paid by property insurers in 2004.

He was able to claim two separate events and was awarded 7.1 billion.... he only managed to collect just under 5 billion however.

Larry was a paid off pawn in the game, bought into the deal 6 weeks before the event taking out insurance on the event as though having some divine foreknowledge that something was going to happen.

He was sold down the river though because he was clearly stitched up after the fact, not by his co conspirators... but by his own lack of understanding on just how tough the insurance industry can be.

Of course no one in government could be seen to be helping him so he was left out in the wind.

a reply to: LaBTop

That really thick layer of dust covering everything, comes after the collapses. And a lot of it is plain gypsum from those thousands of gypsum filled wall boards. And perhaps some vermiculite dust. And plain dust from girders and other former tower surface areas, hidden for the eye, covered with years of dust.

Don't forget the asbestos concentrations.

Further, TEM analysis of dust in the Building also showed the asbestos concentration reaching over 70 million structures/cm2 (s/cm2) in TP-01 samples from the gash region, directly adjacent to the WTC site. An unprecedented level of 1 billion s/cm2 was also observed in the Building and 2 billion s/cm2 on the roof of the Building where debris was deposited from direct fallout as well as suspension, as the WTC Event occurred.

P.12

Simple question: was all this stuff blown out, maybe during some core-vanishing explosions? Yes. I think billions of particles per cm2 just add more water on your mills.
Also, we see nearly 14% mineral wool (aka fireproofing) in the dust but Vermiculite/Gypsum, Chrysotile and Vermiculite make up only 7% alltogether (P.24). Yeah... I'm like "WTF?" myself. Do we really need to discuss the obvious use of explosives further?

a reply to: Korg Trinity

He was able to claim two separate events and was awarded 7.1 billion.... he only managed to collect just under 5 billion however.

But wait minute, you'd originally claimed that Silverstein collected $7 billion and now, you are claiming he collected $5 billion, when the news article said that "Silverstein collected $4.1 billion from insurers."

Once again, you have been caught posting false information.