WTC-7 Mysteries FINALLY Solved.

a reply to: Informer1958

Again you are comparing apples & orange and calling it the same.

Now, you are doing your version of Michael Jackson's "Moon Walk". That is not what I asked you. I asked you what was pulverizing concrete in that video. Take into consideration that no explosives were used.

a reply to: skyeagle409

Calling me a lair is not helping your cause

I said that you made it up.

What's the difference? Would you care to show where I have lied in any of my post?

I am correct and 14 years and no evidence of explosives nor planted thermite proves my case.

I disagree, with your assumptions. You have not proved anything but post old regurgitated 911 myths contents from a well known debunking websites. Most of the materials from these websites have already been beaten to death and debunked by real science. Now if you will present some real science to back up your theories I will be happy to have a real debate with you. However Your "opinions" are not facts and if you believe "opinions" are facts then you have just lost this debate.

a reply to: skyeagle409

Now, you are doing your version of Michael Jackson's "Moon Walk". That is not what I asked you. I asked you what was pulverizing concrete in that video. Take into consideration that no explosives were used.

Are you denying the fact that the WTC 7 concrete was not blasted into dust? Your video is not the same as the WTC 7 destruction.

You can repeat there was no explosions all day. There were explosions. Many eyewitness went on record. Yet you dismiss their credible claims. What you are saying, is all these eyewitness are lying by dismissing their testimonies, because it punches holes to most of your theories supporting the OS.

I would suggest, you should change your approach in presenting your argument because it is not helping you one bit.

a reply to: Informer1958

What's the difference? Would you care to show where I have lied in any of my post?

We can start here, when you said:

No it is not, that is your "opinion" and you have no science to support such nonsense.

So let's take a look here. I honestly don't know how you overlooked this before.


Towers Weakened by Planes; Brought Down by Fire

Analysis by a team of 25 of the nation's leading structural and fire protection engineers suggests that the World Trade Center Towers could have remained standing indefinitely if fire had not overwhelmed the weakened structures, according to a report presented today at a hearing of the House Science Committee.

That finding is significant, said W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., team lead for the ASCE/FEMA Building Performance Study Team, because extreme events of this type, resulting in such substantial damage, are generally not considered in building design, and the fact that these structures were able to successfully withstand such damage is noteworthy.

911-engineers.blogspot.com...

I disagree, with your assumptions.

Where's your evidence that refutes my claims?

a reply to: Informer1958

Are you denying the fact that the WTC 7 concrete was not blasted into dust?

I am saying that at no time were demolition explosives used to bring down WTC 7.

You can repeat there was no explosions all day.

There were explosions, but nothing to do with explosives. BTW, were you aware that molten aluminum coming in contact with water can create explosions inside buildings?

Yet you dismiss their credible claims.

The explosions they heard were later attributed to things that had nothing to do with explosives.

a reply to: skyeagle409

civil & structural engineers on wtc collapse

911-engineers.blogspot.com...

I just click on your link and this is what I get:

Architects and Engineers

I guess a lot of you have heard about the website ae911truth where a group of individuals claim that what happened to WTC 1, 2 and 7 could not have happened. This is just a claim, because they have nothing to show for their allegation that it could not have happened the way it did. You won't find any calculations that show how the NIST Report is wrong. On this site, you will find many structural engineers - those who actually know what they are talking about - explaining why the towers collapsed the way they did. So feel free to look at all the information I have gathered about the research done on the collapse on the towers. The research has been published in numerous engineering magazines and all over the internet on engineering sites (See the links on the right side of this site).

Only a handful of architects and engineers question the NIST Report, but they have never come up with an alternative. Although at first blush it may seem impressive that these people don't believe the NIST Report, remember that there are 123,000 members of ASCE(American Society of Civil Engineers) who do not question the NIST Report. There are also 80,000 members of AIA(American Institute of Architects) who do not question the NIST Report.

Although their field of expertise is not related to the construction of buildings - they don't seem to have a problem with that over at AE911truth - there are also 120,000 members of ASME(American Society of Mechanical Engineers) who do not question the NIST report. There are also 370,000 members of IEEE(Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers) who do not question the NIST report. There are also 40,000 members of AIChE(American Institute of Chemical Engineers) who do not question the NIST Report. There are also 35,000 members of AIAA (American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics) who do not question the NIST report. So who would you rather believe?

This is some of the worst yellow journalism I have seen in years.
The fact is the author who wrote this disturbing garbage has blatantly lied. He is correct to how many professionals who do not support A&E technical papers and the main reason they don't is because to many are working under different government contracting firms and dare not to give their opinions and risk losing their careers, reputations, and their contracts. It's about their money.


FAQ #6: Why does AE911Truth Represent Only a Small Percentage of Architects and Engineers?

www1.ae911truth.org...

Towers Weakened by Planes; Brought Down by Fire

Analysis by a team of 25 of the nation's leading structural and fire protection engineers suggests that the World Trade Center Towers could have remained standing indefinitely if fire had not overwhelmed the weakened structures, according to a report presented today at a hearing of the House Science Committee.

That finding is significant, said W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., team lead for the ASCE/FEMA Building Performance Study Team, because extreme events of this type, resulting in such substantial damage, are generally not considered in building design, and the fact that these structures were able to successfully withstand such damage is noteworthy.

First of all I do not see this article in the sources you have given me.
You have cut and past a snippet from G-d knows where and you want me to give you an "opinion".
If this comes from the source you just gave me. I will not read any of it and I do not support their pseudo science.
Why you will ask? because it is "yellow journalism" and only supports the OS narratives, junk science that does not stand up to real science.

Where's your evidence that refutes my claims?

I just refuted your claim by proving to you, that you are using "yellow journalism" as facts.

Now if you want to stand behind this National Inquire garbage, then knock yourself out.

originally posted by: Informer1958
There were explosions. Many eyewitness went on record.

That's not entirely correct.

There were no "eye witnesses" to seeing explosions. None. No one saw an explosion. No one is on record for seeing an explosion.

There are several people -- firefighters included -- who reported hearing what sounded like explosions. Any engineering student will confirm that any material under extreme stress will make a loud sound when it suddenly fails. The stronger the material (steel) and the higher the stress (a damaged building) the louder the sound. Steel fails very loudly.

And in NYC, lots of things sound like explosions. Large dump trucks traveling fast on bumpy Third Avenue sounds like a series of explosions going down the street... and it echoes like crazy.

They heard what sounded like explosions -- it has never been confirmed that any explosions happened. But what has been confirmed, is that steel failed under very high stress -- and it goes bomb when that happens.

a reply to: skyeagle409

I am saying that at no time were demolition explosives used to bring down WTC 7.

And around and around we go.... same nonsense.

There were explosions, but nothing to do with explosives. BTW, were you aware that molten aluminum coming in contact with water can create explosions inside buildings?

Fact and I will repeat this over and over and over and over just as you do. There were many explosions with credible eyewitness who went on public record who saw, and hear explosions. Are you in complete denial to these credible people testimonies that I and many ATS posters have given you?

I would like answer to why you dismiss all these credible claims?

The explosions they heard were later attributed to things that had nothing to do with explosives.

This is your "opinion" you have not presented any science or credible
facts to back up this "opinion".

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I disagree.

An Eye-Witness Account of the World Trade Center Attacks
from Neil deGrasse Tyson

The following is taken from an email Neil deGrasse Tyson sent to his family and friends on 12 September 2001. Neil witnessed the attacks on the twin towers from his apartment only six blocks from the World Trade Center.

"As more and more and more and more and more emergency vehicles descended on the World Trade Center, I hear a second explosion in WTC 2, then a loud, low-frequency rumble that precipitates the unthinkable -- a collapse of all the floors above the point of explosion. First the top surface, containing the helipad, tips sideways in full view. Then the upper floors fall straight down in a demolition-style implosion, taking all lower floors with it, even those below the point of the explosion."

"I decide it's time to get my daughter, who was taken by the parents of a friend of hers to a small office building, six blocks farther from the WTC than my apartment. As I dress for survival: boots, flashlight, wet towels, swimming goggles, bicycle helmet, gloves, I hear another explosion followed by a now all-too familiar rumble that signaled the collapse of WTC 1, the first of the two towers to have been hit. I saw the iconic antenna on this building descend straight down in an implosion twinning the first."

He was on the 81st Floor of Two World Trade Center

"I was almost out. I got down to the lobby, right near the Border’s book store. And then there was this explosion. I don’t know, I just got thrown to the ground and all this stuff fell on top of me."

9/11 Survivor Stories: Sujo & Mini

"So they escorted us thru the exit of World Trade 2 and I had just reached the revolving door of the building that I heard a loud explosion and the whole building collapsed. [...] When that explosion took place and the building was crumbling over me I could see the pics of my wife, my parents, grandmother loved ones flash thru my mind and now what a relief that we are alive."

whatreallyhappened.com...

This is just some of many reports of eyewitnesses who heard explosions.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Witnesses to the Towers' Explosions

Rich Banaciski -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
... and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.

Brian Becker -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 28]
The collapse hadn't begun, but it was not a fire any more up there. It was like -- it was like that -- like smoke explosion on a tremendous scale going on up there.

Greg Brady -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.) [Battalion 6]
We were standing underneath and Captain Stone was speaking again. We heard -- I heard 3 loud explosions. I look up and the north tower is coming down now, 1 World Trade Center.

Timothy Burke -- Firefigter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 202]
But it seemed like I was going oh, my god, there is a secondary device because the way the building popped. I thought it was an explosion.

Ed Cachia -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 53]
we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.

Frank Campagna -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 11]
You see three explosions and then the whole thing coming down.

Craig Carlsen -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 8]
... you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions.

Jason Charles -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
... and then I heard an explosion from up, from up above, and I froze and I was like, oh, s___, I'm dead because I thought the debris was going to hit me in the head and that was it.
...
I look over my shoulder and I says, oh, s___, and then I turned around and looked up and that's when I saw the tower coming down.

Frank Cruthers -- Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Citywide Tour Commander]
.. there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse.

Kevin Darnowski -- Paramedic (E.M.S.)
I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down.

Dominick Derubbio -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Division 8]
It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion ...

Karin Deshore -- Captain (E.M.S.)
Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode.

Brian Dixon -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
... the lowest floor of fire in the south tower actually looked like someone had planted explosives around it because the whole bottom I could see -- I could see two sides of it and the other side -- it just looked like that floor blew out. I looked up and you could actually see everything blew out on the one floor. I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out.

Michael Donovan -- Captain (F.D.N.Y.)
I thought there had been an explosion or a bomb that they had blown up there.

James Drury -- Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)
I should say that people in the street and myself included thought that the roar was so loud that the explosive - bombs were going off inside the building.

Thomas Fitzpatrick -- Deputy Commissioner for Administration (F.D.N.Y.)
Some people thought it was an explosion. I don't think I remember that. I remember seeing it, it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building.
...
My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV.

Gary Gates -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
So the explosion, what I realized later, had to be the start of the collapse. It was the way the building appeared to blowout from both sides. I'm looking at the face of it, and all we see is the two sides of the building just blowing out and coming apart like this, as I said, like the top of a volcano.

911review.com...

a reply to: Informer1958

Nothing in those accounts is inconsistent with the sound of heavy steel structures failing under extreme stress. They heard what sounded like explosions. Lots of heavy steel failed. It makes a big boom when that happens. Logically, that's what they heard.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Kevin Gorman -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
... I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes.

Gregg Hansson -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
Then a large explosion took place. In my estimation that was the tower coming down, but at that time I did not know what that was. I thought some type of bomb had gone off.

Timothy Julian -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 118]
You know, and I just heard like an explosion and then cracking type of noise, and then it sounded like a freight train, rumbling and picking up speed, and I remember I looked up, and I saw it coming down.

John Malley -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
I felt the rumbling, and then I felt the force coming at me. I was like, what the hell is that? In my mind it was a bomb going off.

James McKinley -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
After that I heard this huge explosion, I thought it was a boiler exploding or something. Next thing you know this huge cloud of smoke is coming at us, so we're running.

Joseph Meola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 91]
As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops. Didn't realize it was the falling -- you know, you heard the pops of the building. You thought it was just blowing out.

Kevin Murray -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 18]
When the tower started -- there was a big explosion that I heard and someone screamed that it was coming down and I looked away and I saw all the windows domino

Janice Olszewski -- Captain (E.M.S.)
I thought it was an explosion or a secondary device, a bomb, the jet -- plane exploding, whatever.

Daniel Rivera -- Paramedic (E.M.S.) [Battalion 31]
At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear "Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop"? That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that.

Angel Rivera -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
That's when hell came down. It was like a huge, enormous explosion. I still can hear it. Everything shook.

Kennith Rogers -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in '93.

Patrick Scaringello -- Lieutenant (E.M.S.)
I started to treat patients on my own when I heard the explosion from up above.

Mark Steffens -- Division Chief (E.M.S.)
Then there was another it sounded like an explosion and heavy white powder ...

John Sudnik -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
Then we heard a loud explosion or what sounded like a loud explosion and looked up and I saw tower two start coming down. Crazy.

Jay Swithers -- Captain (E.M.S.)
I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.

David Timothy -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
The next thing I knew, you started hearing more explosions. I guess this is when the second tower started coming down.

Albert Turi -- Deputy Assistant Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower, somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out.

Thomas Turilli -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
... it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came.

Stephen Viola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
... that's when the south tower collapsed, and it sounded like a bunch of explosions.

William Wall -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 47]
At that time, we heard an explosion. We looked up and the building was coming down right on top of us ...

a reply to: Informer1958

My presumption is that this thread was specific to speculation that explosions caused the fall of Building Seven. Those quotes do not relate to Building Seven.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I disagree.

You are only given your opinion here. I will rely on many experts such as the NYC Firemen who also went on record.
If anything they would know the differents between metal crashing and the sounds of explosions.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

BARRY JENNINGS MYSTERY

Barry Jennings– now dead at 53– details his eyewitness account while trapped inside WTC7 on 9/11 in a 2007 interview. Jennings told reporters on the day of 9/11, as well as Loose Change cameras in 2007, that he heard repeated explosions inside the building before either Tower 1 or Tower 2 collapsed and testified that he was "stepping over dead bodies" while exiting the ‘blown-out’ lobby to WTC7.

Barry Jennings, a key 9/11 eyewitness who was an emergency coordinator for the New York Housing Authority, has passed away at age 53 from circumstances not yet disclosed.

barryjenningsmystery.blogspot.com...

I rest my case.]

[

originally posted by: Informer1958
You are only given your opinion here.

It's not opinion. It's what people learn when they go to school for engineering and physics.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: Informer1958
There were explosions. Many eyewitness went on record.

That's not entirely correct.

There were no "eye witnesses" to seeing explosions. None. No one saw an explosion. No one is on record for seeing an explosion.

There are several people -- firefighters included -- who reported hearing what sounded like explosions. Any engineering student will confirm that any material under extreme stress will make a loud sound when it suddenly fails. The stronger the material (steel) and the higher the stress (a damaged building) the louder the sound. Steel fails very loudly.

And in NYC, lots of things sound like explosions. Large dump trucks traveling fast on bumpy Third Avenue sounds like a series of explosions going down the street... and it echoes like crazy.

They heard what sounded like explosions -- it has never been confirmed that any explosions happened. But what has been confirmed, is that steel failed under very high stress -- and it goes bomb when that happens.

Man that reads like a lawyer wrote it trying to get his guilty client off the hook on a technicality.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I agree. however are you going to dismiss BARRY JENNINGS testimony. He was in WTC 7 Doesn't his testimony count?

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Question?

What Narrative in science to you support of the WTC 7 demise?
Do you support A&E? or do you support the governments report such as the NIST Report?