WTC-7 Mysteries FINALLY Solved.

a reply to: LaBTop

You should read my only thread I was allowed to post at Pf911T about all those witnesses who all said the plane impacted, and see the inevitable ending (Balsamo convinced the CIT team-of-two, that only a fly-over was possible). That man really needs a good shrink.

I am really having a difficult time believing that Rob is a real pilot. I have caught him making false statements on several occasions. I have also heard that American 77 overflew the Pentagon and somehow landed at National Airport, but I guess all radars were tuned off and all ATC personnel were in the break room.

Video Number 3 of the 11:01:07 explosion can be seen in this video starting at 0:28 - 0:35



It was filmed on Broadway looking south at the intersection of Chambers st.

Notice how the shadow runs across the street over the curb and just behind the street sign on the right. The street sign is just barely in shadow.


A line with a 137.97 deg. heading was drawn across the street to the base corner of the building and a red dot was placed at the base of the sign.




The shadow line being just south of the street confirms the time. (137.96 deg shadow = 11:01 am)

If anyone knows of other 9/11 explosions caught on video please post them with time stamp.
( No I don't want video of people saying they heard an explosions, I want video with the sound of the explosion.)

a reply to: LaBTop




Check out 4:11 of this video.

Falling bird screen. It's not the same one, it's from the North tower.

A reply to: skyeagle409

For those with a tendency to be impressed by "authority" as laid out by some members of Pilots for 911 Truth, here is a short list of impressive mistakes by those pilots there :

== Their impressive misreading and mishearing of the Roosevelt Roberts interviews and phone calls. They concluded that he saw a fly over of some kind, while we all hear him clearly describe AA77 and the C-130 GOPHER their nearing of Route 27 in front of the Pentagon. I and others here posted many posts on that subject.
== A damning critique of Balsamo's video "9/11: Attack on the Pentagon".
== Balsamo's mishap about 10+ G-loads during AA77's dive and pull out of the dive to the Pentagon west wall.
== The ACARS mishap by Balsamo et al, resulting in their misinforming of their members and readers, that planes flew further than their radar returns indicated as their impact points and times. The ATS thread about it : ACARS Confirms 9/11 UA 175 Aircraft Was Airborne Long After Crash! Just WOW!
== The Dulles Airport Flight 77 departure Gate mishap that Balsamo still has up on one of his main pages
He persists that Flight 77 did not depart from Gate D26, as all witnesses and my AA77 taxiing from gate to runway analysis thread : "At last, The "Watergate" Of 9/11" iindeed firmly indicated after 20+ pages of my re-calculations. Note : you better first read the last few pages with my end conclusions and runway and taxi lanes drawings, since I started that thread, quite convinced that Balsamo seemed right.
It turned out to be he was NOT, at all. AA77 did depart from Gate D26. And I proved it conclusively.


For those who can't figure out yet how to find threads and posts written by me here at ATS in 10 years :
1. CLICK to see my 51 threads at ATS.
2. CLICK to read all my 2,926 ATS posts.

a reply to: LaBTop

I wish Rob Balsamo would visit Travis AFB, and watch as giant C-5, KC-10 and C-17 transports perform their 360-degree training maneuvers to a landing from altitudes as high as 10,000 feet and doing so at roughly the same time frame as American 77 without pulling high G-loads.

Add to the fact that American 77 didn't complete a full 360-degree maneuver unlike the 360-degree maneuvers performed by much larger aircraft at Travis AFB.

a reply to: LaBTop

Brilliant thread LaBTop. You have a hell of a way with words and make a lot of sense. Just a pity some of the sheeple can't or won't accept what really has happened.

a reply to: skyeagle409

Nobody said it was 77 that did the low pass there.

An unknown airliner made the low pass, that's all. And Balsamo is a pilot.

a reply to: skyeagle409

I would suggest that you are simply unaware of the massive evidence of a false flag on 911. Do you even know the purpose or definition of a false flag?

The purpose is to deceive, and to make it look like some innocent party was the perpetrator of the crime. Yes 911 was a magnificent deception. We were all deceived. Some of us have been able to realize that after all these years, some are not able and will probably never be able.

In this case the muslims were blamed, and the result has been an unending "war on terror" from which the military industrial complex benefits greatly. The actual perpetrators are those who benefit from the war on terror.

A reply to: waypastvne

Are you sure you started your yellow sun shadow line at the base of that building?
I think not, the shadow line angle, when starting at the real building base will shift up NORTHEAST-WARDS, towards the real sun position, for an amount of degrees, making the screen-shot time stamp about 10 minutes earlier than 11:01:07 a.m.

Which corrected time fits the bell tower clock time of 10:50 and the wrist watch of the POLICE US INS t-shirt wearing guy at the phone boot in Murray St when that loud double thunderclap explosion sound can be heard there. You should calculate the shadows in that video too.!
I would use the one from the scene entering -towards the cameraman walking- fireman who comes from the corner there. Draw 2 lines from his feet to the two shadow boundaries of his two legs and body, and then middle them. That's your quite precise sun azimuth/elevation time reference.

You can check my reasoning at these extra lines drawn by me in your screen-shot, my red dot beside my yellow squarish dot is the point where the building baseline should go through. However, the shadow of the roof line which I drew thin yellow too, is overlapping that building's base line, making it invisible. But we can deduct it from the other lines that I drew from the north, made by that wall beneath it :

My picture is not possible to post now, since massive DDOS attacks are launched on ATS by some hackers today. I will post it later, when the upload feature works again.

EDIT : here it is : files.abovetopsecret.com...



ENDEDIT

Thus, I'll do it with words.
Waypastvne, look at your last picture with your thin yellow line.
You have to start that line at the real base of that building. Go a bit up left, start in the leftish point of the corner of that small light gray triangle that is situated above your starting point, then draw the new real shadow line from there through your red dot.
That new line points a bit more up north, and then, as can be seen in the Az/El drawings by me, that means an earlier time of about 10 to 11 minutes difference with that seismic time stamp of an "additional collapse" in that LDEO seismogram you posted.

waypastvne :
It was filmed on Broadway looking south at the intersection of Chambers St.
Notice how the shadow runs across the street over the curb and just behind the street sign on the right. The street sign is just barely in shadow.

That sharp shadow rim runs from the sign on the right to an opposite sign on the left , nearly perfect. But Google Street View was not working on 9/11 or before, perhaps a year later? Try the 2001 and later Historical Views in Google Earth instead of your 2015 one.
Perhaps you find a Google Earth street view picture with BOTH street signs in it.
I will secede when you then prove me wrong...You too, if you're wrong?

The biggest problem however, with this explosion coupled by you to your gas leak photos + seismic peaks start time of 11:01, is that all people in this video look or turn their head SOUTH , not west, where that gas leak photo was taken towards the little shed in the center of that parking lot between 4 streets ;
North End Ave, Vesey St, West St and Murray St.

Title : WTC7 in 7 Minutes - 9/11 Explosions not Fire. Between +/- 9 and +/- 11 o'clock a.m.



waypastvne, I just realized myself something important.
See 2:00 / 7:07. The famous phone boot explosion-sound video was filmed at the corner of Murray St (runs east-west) and West Broadway (which runs from the east side of WTC-7 up north).
Everybody in that video turned around towards West Broadway and not towards West Street which is 90 degrees in the other direction.....except the POLICE US INS t-shirt wearing guy with the knotted handkerchief on his head. He seemed to expect it, and did not move at all. A great candidate to waterboard at a sunny place, to ask him where he hid his radio-detonator.

By the way, he had a wrist watch on...we already wasted a lot of time to determine the time on that watch, I think we all differed from between about 09:15 - 11:00 a.m.
And you can use the shadow from the lamp post on the corner, and from the fire man near that post, to get a somewhat better time frame. Using your sun shadow link.
I have started some time ago in 2010 a thread about the subject, titled :
"WTC7 phoneboot explosion sound pinned to corner Murray Str-West Broadway". Use all that info in there.

Which fire men reactions indicate for sure that your theory that that sound was the same sound as from the Spak video at 214 Broadway, and was a gas main pipe leak blowing up in a small shed on a parking lot on the other side of West Street, is IMPOSSIBLE.
That explosion which sounds like a cutter charge going off, clearly originated from the east side of WTC-7, thus no gas explosion.
It fits the Barry Jennings + Michael Hess explosion explanation on 9/11 much better, qua time.
They encountered an explosion inside the eastern stairwell on the 5th to 6th floor, according to Jennings, while Hess later retracted that and thought it was the collapse of WTC-1N. Then he became a director at former NY mayor Giuliani's law firm...amidst some other former former NY City dignitaries. I will spend some long posts on that subject, next.

Then the Spak video with its explosion at 10:50 on the bell tower clock from St Paul's church is left over, which you pinpointed with your sun shadow calculation link as around 11 o'clock, and then concluded that it must have been a gas explosion, you did not give a link to its video btw, only two screenshots. Please offer us that link. I never saw that gas explosion filmed.
To me it looks as a clear aerial explosion, which do not register at such small scale on 34 km away seismographs.
Then I wrote that an aerial gas explosion will not result in huge seismic waves that are still recordable 34 km further north and were recorded at 11:01 a.m. To fit that seismic event, you declared the bell tower clock to be 11 minutes out of sinc with real time, which asumption is not provable anymore, also not with your sun shadow line.
The fault margin of that procedure will be within those 11 minutes, I suppose. See if you can prove my supposition on this subject, wrong. And convince me that you're right.
Take in account the remarks at the bottom of the sun shadow link about their fault margins :

This solar calculator is provided for research and entertainment purposes only. Due to variable atmospheric conditions and uncertainty inherent in the algorithms used, the actual observed values of sunrise, sunset and solar position may differ from the results presented here.

REFERENCES
Explosion Sounds and the World Trade Center - Twin Tower Collapses. Version 1.45b :
www.mediumrecords.com...
www.mediumrecords.com...
www.mediumrecords.com... (empty link)

A reply to: skyeagle409

Were ALL THEIR autopilot functions also switched off?
I.o.w., do they perform those maneuvers MANUALLY with those expensive birds?

Family who flew in all of them, says it would be extremely difficult to do it right the first time in a certified flight simulator.
To descend from 3 km, and performing that fluent 352 degrees turn, doing the speeds as registered in the DFDR, without autopilot functions on. Dutch roll would be the most certain outcome at leveling off, out from that turn at that real speed. Not the Capt Aimer speeds. And come out from that and being directly, without corrections, in a straight attack line towards the later impact point.
That must have been an ace, he says. With 20,000 hrs behind his wings.

Edit : And how could they hug the lawn for such a long distance, without officially knowing from FAA flight controllers, what the actual barometric pressure was at Reagan International? So they could feed that into the flight computer, as normally is done when descending through the 18,000 feet ceiling boundary. There are no reports that any flight controller gave away that information.
The jet engine nacelles bottoms must have nearly scraped the grass at 2 feet height in the end.
Quite some precise calculations laying around about that, based on the 5 lamp poles their wing-cuts heights. See MajorTom's website.

Here are some very important comments from a You Tube poster calling himself MrKoenig1985, about the above posted "WTC7 in 7 Minutes - 9/11 Explosions not Fire" video, made by CTV911 .
Fresh 9/11 investigators should really read his remarks, they are honest and factual.
His opponent's remarks are of the usual half informed quality at You Tube : real quality absent.
There are 187 comments, I'm not going to cite them all, these are the better answers filled with facts not yet known by the freshly arrived member or lurking still facts-absorbing reader, however I and lots of day-one researchers of 9/11/2001 know them also by heart for a long time already. He however, brings them in a short and compact manner :

whetedge 4 months ago.
"Elevator car blown out of shaft"
The spire of North Tower perimeter wall which slammed into Building 7 was on a trajectory in line with elevator shafts. The spire of falling steel likely got tangled up in the elevator cable, pulling the car out of it's location.
Note the entry hole at roof line of the south face at 0:28.
--------------
MrKoenig1985 4 months ago. +whetedge
The spire consisted of briefly remained standing northern core columns not perimeter wall.
These core columns didn't topple in the northern direction (WTC 7).
--------------
whetedge 4 months ago.
"Loud explosion sound placed near WTC7"
Ever hear a 30 foot transformer blow? There were 8 of those monsters at the base of Building 7, plus many other large transformers.
--------------
MrKoenig1985 4 months ago (edited). +whetedge
Transformers with automatic circuit breakers and heat-resistant insulating oil should blow why?
Con-Ed staff didn't report any problems. And the substation was shut down around 4:34p.m.
This video was recorded just before noon.

Additionally, according to Con-Ed, the power at whole WTC complex was out before 10:00a.m.
(LT : that's a very important remark, and should be laid over the Barry Jennings interview by Dylan Avery)
--------------
whetedge 4 months ago. +MrKoenig1985
I don't have a clue. I'm just trying to help all "truthers" who are so worried about irrelevant reports of explosions. There are all sorts of sources. You don't know if a transformer blew and neither do I. It's all irrelevant because there is no evidence for anything but collapse due to damage and fire.
(LT: this thread is full of evidence for explosions and seismic, audio, video evidence for human "assistance" with the collapse of WTC-7)
--------------
MrKoenig1985 4 months ago (edited). +whetedge
It's good that the question of what is relevant and what is not, do not ends at your door.
Of course, questions that can distort the own convienent pre-conceived ideas are disturbing and therefore being considered as "irrelevant".

Of what evidence for fires and damage do you talking about? The official investigations by FEMA-ASCE and NIST poked in the dark till the end, since no steel of WTC 7 was examined, but quickly hauled away, shipped to East Asia and was melted down there.
The last investigation by NIST is purely based on black box computer models, because even on this complete lack of structural steel to examine, NIST refuses to release all data associated with their models, the release "might jeopardize public safety".
--------------
whetedge 4 months ago. +MrKoenig1985
You are clueless, and you too, as well as all "truthers" I have run into, swallowed the "shipped to China" lie. You can study the steel right now today. WTC, THE most documented crime scene ever. Every bit of the structural remains broke at connections, with NO sign of any sort of artificial dismemberment. You should go look before digging your hole any deeper. And you should look up Verizon Building. There you will find crucial column separation points along the entire lower west wall of Building 7. If the columns were cut apart, you will find the evidence there.
(LT : He has no clue at all. No steel parts at all of WTC-7 were saved, or inspected at Fresh Kill Island. There are no reports of that, EXCEPT the peculiar "eaten-up" Sulfur infected rasor sharp and thin piece of WTC-7 steel that FEMA very early on published some photos of, and that piece disappeared in the deep caverns of "public safety", despite the NY Times asking thereafter for a thorough investigation of all the WTC-7 steel. Mayor Giuliani ordered the immediate removal of all WTC-7 steel and debris, the evening of 9/11 already. Hundreds of identical dump trucks already rolled in that evening, to start that removal of evidence from a crime scene job. There's video of that long long row of slow moving identical dump trucks, as if it was planned already long before. It will sent chills along your spine, when you see them turning a corner, one after the other, an endless row of brandnew trucks... )
---------------
MrKoenig1985 4 months ago (edited). +whetedge
The 99.9 % of WTC steel was not shipped off unexamined to China and other East Asian countries? Really?
z10.invisionfree.com...
Where can I study the steel from WTC 7? Name me the storage place/s!

"Every bit of the structural remains broke at connections, with NO sign of any sort of artificial dismemberment."
You, an other person, or an organization has studied the whole WTC 7 steel inventory?
Who did it? Where? And where were the results published?
Where can I inspect all of the lower WTC 7 core column sections (floors 1-13?).
The collapse began inside the core, east side, not at the perimeter walls.
You should come up with data before calling others as clueless.
It's utterly ridiculous to see some few visible structural pieces on photos and then conclude that all the steel would be show the same failure mode.
Especially, when the upper floors debris have burried the steel elements from lower floors, as it did happen when the WTC 7 imploded and collapsed from bottom up.

Hypothetical scenario at an apparent murder scene:
MrKoenig1985: "We should examine the whole apartment for blood remains."
whetedge: "No, there's no need for this. No blood traces are in this room therefore there wouldn't be any in other rooms."
LOL. All alarm bells will be start ringing in any sane human brain.

--more--

It gets more and more interesting, many not so well known facts are laid on the table by MrKoenig1985 for the truly investigative minds. I knew them, but did you? :

whetedge 5 months ago.
Michael Hess later stated they originally thought it was an explosion because they did not know WTC 1 had collapsed. He stated he now knows they experienced North Tower collapse, not an explosion.
Barry Jennings' time line has been proved to be incorrect. They were in the west stairwell, right next to where steel perimeter wall from North Tower fell through the building. They were within a whisker of getting flattened, and their account is actually evidence of the extent of damage to Building 7.
(LT : Totally wrong, they were in the eastern stairwell, deep at the back of the building, near the north side facade, and WTC-7 exterior panel debris hit the south side facade, see the video)
---------------
MrKoenig1985 4 months ago (edited). +whetedge
whtedge: "Michael Hess later stated they originally thought it was an explosion because they did not know WTC 1 had collapsed."

And later means "as he already worked for Giuliani & Partners"?
Amazing, how some NYC top figures on 9/11 have found work at Giulianis's company after the attacks: Michael Hess, Richard Sheirer, Thomas von Essen, more?
What is this? "Shut your mouth and take the lucrative career offer"?

whetedge: "He stated he now knows they experienced North Tower collapse, not an explosion."

How can he know it for sure inside a windowless stairwell in WTC 7?
Or it is very likely that he did "learn it later". Because he did nothing tell about WTC 1 collapse in his intitial, therefore more important, interview on 9/11 with an UPN9 reporter.
And your first sentence, whetedge, reinforces that notion of "later learning".

That reminds of a story from a high-ranking PAPD officer, who allegedly did have seen from the lobby doors, the jet-fuel coming down the elevator shafts of WTC 1. Superman's x-ray vision through the shaft walls, so to speak.
And the faulty "debunking god" Mark Roberts took it as a serious argument against the "Bombs in the WTC 1 Lobby/Basement" hypothesis on his website...

Back to Hess/Jennings case:
"Barry Jennings' time line has been proved to be incorrect."

New to me. Proven by who and what data?

"They were in the west stairwell, right next to where steel perimeter wall from North Tower fell through the building."

On which basis bases this claim, that Jennings/Hess were in the West Stair? And that they have experienced the explosion from 5th floor at the time of WTC1 collapse? Circular reasoning?
NIST's "June 2004 Progress Report" (Appx. L) and eyewitness testimony by Rotanz as used in NIST NCSTAR 1-9, Vol. I (Nov. 2008) tell the otherwise.

"They were within a whisker of getting flattened, and their account is actually evidence of the extent of damage to Building 7."

Again a bold statement mixed with emotionalization.
---------------
whetedge 4 months ago. +MrKoenig1985
Jennings proved his time line inaccurate himself. Just listen to his interviews and try to make the data points add up. They don't. He noted it was "very hot" in the building right after the stairwell broke apart under him. The building didn't get hot until after North Tower collapse.
Video in and around Building 7 AFTER South Tower collapse show NO evidence of any explosion, no damage, no windows blown out.
Richard Rotanz ascended the east stairwell, which means Jennings and Hess were in the west stairwell. Rotanz didn't go into the west part because it was inaccessible.
Neither Jennings nor Hess had any fragment blast wounds, which would be expected if that close to any explosion. Hess said the thing he noted was all the dust after the event. The Promenade and Vesey Street was crawling with first responders and evacuees prior to tower collapses, and no one reported any explosion in Building 7. Video in the lobby after South Tower collapse, and interview with secret service agent, shows no sign of any explosion, nor was any event mentioned.
There are too many inconsistencies in the Jennings interviews. Too much to list all of them, but it adds up to his time line being incorrect. What his and Hess's testimony does do is corroborate the damage to the interior core structure of Building 7.
---------------

--more--

MrKoenig1985 4 months ago (edited). +whetedge
Gases released by an explosion are hot.
Of course, there would be likely no damage visible from the outside, since the explosion did apparently happen deep inside the core, not at the perimeter walls.
There were no (double-)glassed windows at floors 5-6, just metal louvers at south, east and west faces.
The explosion did happen according to Jennings beneath him, therefore below 6th floor, very likely at 5th floor.

whetedge: "Richard Rotanz ascended the east stairwell, which means Jennings and Hess were in the west stairwell."

How should this place Hess and Jennings in the West Stair???
Jennings and Hess were already rescued at the time (~12:00 p.m.) when Rotanz and a pair of still unnamed fire chiefs have entered WTC 7 and began touring through the lower WTC 7 floors at around 1:00 p.m., like the NIST report NCSTAR 1-9, Chapter 6 says.

whetedge: "Rotanz didn't go into the west part because it was inaccessible."

NIST NCSTAR 1-9 - Vol. 1 says, around 1:00 p.m., Rotanz with a pair of fire chiefs did enter WTC 7 from West Broadway, through the East Stair ("Stair B") entrance at east wall near the southeast corner of this building.
They ascended the first five floors in this stairway, BUT suddenly have changed the stair on 5th floor (no reason is given in this NIST report), going from East Stair, almost all the way through the core, to the West Stair ("Stair A") and then continuing their climb up on this stair.
NIST NCSTAR 1-9, Vol. 1 (Nov. 2008), p. 300 / PDF p. 344:
"At approximately 1:00 p.m., an OEM staff member, a FDNY Deputy Chief, and a FDNY Battalion Chief entered WTC 7 to further evaluate conditions.(21) The OEM staff member reported that they entered WTC 7 through the door near the southeast corner on West Broadway and proceeded up the B stairway on the east side. They stopped at the 3rd floor level. The atrium was filled with dust but had no significant debris. As they observed the area, they heard the building creaking. Debris was piled up on the Vesey Street side between Columns 17 and 22. They checked the 4th and 5th floors and did not see much damage from their viewing location. At the 5th floor, they moved to the A stairway and proceeded up. On the 8th or 9th floor, one of the group said he saw two elevator cars ejected from their shafts and in the hallway.
(...)
(21) OEM Interviews 4 and 16, April 2004 & July 2004."
NIST June 2004 Progress Report, Appendix L, p. L-18 / PDF p. 906:
"L.2.1 Damage from WTC 1 and WTC 2 Collapses
(...)
The following information about damage seen in WTC 7 was obtained from interviews of people in or near the building:
(...)
Reported close to time of WTC 1 collapse:
• East stair experienced an air pressure burst, filled with dust/smoke, lost lights"

These two quotes support outright Jenning's story of an explosion below him and Hess, destroying the stairway at 6th floor and lower, and places him and Hess in the East Stair.
This shows also that the West Stair was not penetrated by WTC 1 debris and was accessible at least between 5th floor and 9th floor.

"Air pressure burst" = NIST's euphemism for "explosion"?

By the way, I wondering why NIST's 2008 final reports on WTC 7 do not mention anymore this "air pressure burst" in East Stair and the stair name:
NIST NCSTAR 1-9, Vol 1, (Nov. 2008), p. 298 / PDF p. 342:
"As all of the emergency responder restructuring operations were underway, three people became temporarily trapped inside WTC 7. Two New York City employees had gone to the OEM Center on the 23rd floor and found no one there.(16) As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs, the lights inside WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed. At that point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase. When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed, the lights went out in the staircase, the sprinklers (at an unspecified location) came on briefly, and the staircase filled with smoke and debris. The two men went back to the 8th floor, broke out two windows, and called for help. Fire fighters on the ground saw them and went up the stairs."
(16) WTC 7 Interviews 2041604 and 1041704, spring 2004.

--more--

whetedge: "Neither Jennings nor Hess had any fragment blast wounds, which would be expected if that close to any explosion. Hess said the thing he noted was all the dust after the event."

If the explosion happened BENEATH them, which "fragment blast wounds" do you expect to see? Seeing dust swirling around just after an explosion is not unusuall at all, likewise feeling heat.
Interestingly, neither Jennings nor Hess have reported that heavy debris from outside their stairway have penetrated the shaft walls.

whetedge: "The Promenade and Vesey Street was crawling with first responders and evacuees prior to tower collapses, and no one reported any explosion in Building 7."

Prove? I wonder also how you got (allegedly) access to ALL first responder interviews since many of those were locked from the public by NYC for 25 years...

whetedge: "Video in the lobby after South Tower collapse, and interview with secret service agent, shows no sign of any explosion, nor was any event mentioned."

Of course not. The explosion did likely happen on 5th floor and NOT in the lobby (floors 1-4).
Between floors 1-4 and 5 was a reinforced, massive concrete slab, 14 inches thick.
But the explosion could also happened after the cameraman left the building but before the second tower fell at 10:28 a.m..
Never thought about this possibility?

whetedge: "There are too many inconsistencies in the Jennings interviews. Too much to list all of them, but it adds up to his time line being incorrect. What his and Hess's testimony does do is corroborate the damage to the interior core structure of Building 7."

Proved the contrary, only by citing the NIST reports. Of course. Because you are distorting the reports and rely on false premises set by you. You obviously twisting the given data in favor of "Hess and Jennings were in West Stair and this stair was damaged by falling WTC 1 debris and no explosion has occured" story.
That is dishonest and making you a liar and a propagandist for the U.S. government's version of 9/11 attacks.
---------------
MrKoenig1985 4 months ago (edited). +Jackblind1000
"Does anyone know what was inside the WTC7 penthouse?"

East Penthouse contained water chillers for Salomon Smith Barney (formerly: Salomon Brothers, Inc.), according to the Salomon Brothers retrofit drawings (Skidmore Owings & Merrill, 1988) released by NIST through FOIA requests (for example: see NIST FOIA #12-179 on 911datasets.org).
The addition of the East Penthouse and screenwalled AC units on the roof were the result of this retrofit, which began only a year after the completion of main WTC 7 building including the West Penthouse.
The West Penthouse was used as a storage area for window washers, say the original architectural drawings from Emery Roth & Sons (1985).
---------------
MrKoenig1985 4 years ago, as a reaction on WTCdemolitions
@WTCdemolitions : The window breakage on various floors along the eastern and western perimeter core columns before collapse is also interesting. I don't find any explanation from NIST.
---------------
MrKoenig1985 5 years ago.
Oh, wow! Good quality.
0:01
Nice to see how the windows pop out. Looks as if the inner columns near to the west facade were weakened. It seems as if the same columns were attacked on several floors. Perhaps the vertical connections between the columns (splice plates and welds) were destroyed here.
But why we don't see a similar damage in the middle of the facade?

This is MrKoenig1985 his Google account page, with lots of more remarks by him regarding posted, sometimes highly interesting, You Tube 9/11 videos :
plus.google.com...

Major Tom : Accurate Collapse History of WTC7
In this diagram, titled " Drop curves for perimeter near the center, northwest corner and northeast corner compared " you clearly see the 6 seconds of roof perimeter movement, just before the global collapse started. Those same 6 seconds in which we hear and later graphically see those 2+7=9 explosions during the Ashley Banfield interview video, shot near WTC-7 just before WTC-7 its global collapse :
files.abovetopsecret.com...




13th Floor Jet Flames Seen Shooting Out Just Before Collapse.
www.youtube.com...


Note that it took again 6 seconds during which these jet flames spat out from one 13th floor-window on the north facade of WTC-7, just before the global collapse started. Again, those same 6 seconds from the OP its seismic diagram, and the same 6 seconds from the Ashley Banfield interview with the 9 explosion sounds in it during the last 6 seconds before global collapse started.

Is that enough corroberation for the 6 seconds of 9 explosions found by David Chandler from the Ashley Banfield video interview, as noted in my OP seismogram? I definitely think so.

(1) 6 secs roof perimeter movement, (2) 6 secs jet flames, (3) 6 secs interview explosions, (4) 8.5 secs east & west penthouses on top of WTC-7 sinking, measured by NIST, (5) 6 secs of increased WTC-7 building's roof perimeter horizontal rocking, just before global collapse, during 6 seconds.
(see his point 2) in the excellent "Accurate Collapse History of WTC7" page above, made by Major Tom)

These following remarks of Major Tom, and the accompanying video are new to me, that's some very good logical reasoning.!

COLLAPSE PROGRESSION AND COMPLETION
Due to the early fall of the east penthouse, one can assume that the core and perimeter on the east side of the building were not coupled together during the building collapse. The perimeter flexure, as it responded to collective core failure, also shows that the east side of the perimeter was decoupled from the core while the center area and west side of the perimeter was tightly coupled to the collective core.

There is further evidence of this during the collapse progression process. The section of the perimeter located farthest east fell slower than the rest of the perimeter and actually folded in on top of and over the rest of the building as shown in this short slow motion video :
www.youtube.com...

REFERENCES
Major Tom : Accurate Collapse History of WTC 2

Major Tom : Accurate Collapse History of WTC 1

a reply to: LaBTop

STARED AND FLAGGED OP

Lets face it I am a OSer, I do not actually believe that there is some nefarious false flag plot behind 9/11 and I have written my own views regarding WTC-7 in my own thread on this very same site so I am not going to start a pointless tit for tat of views.

Honestly seismology is something i know very little about, I have read elsewhere on-line other information regarding the seismological evidence and 9/11 that paints a very different picture to the one you have outlined in your posts. That said however, you LaBTop have a much better grasp of the seismological data than I do.

I think this is a perfect example of how a truther (not a fan of the lables either people) thread on ATS should look, you have links, videos, pictures a well taught out theory and I think it is only right that we who believe the official story are willing to accept when our opposites make a good point.

So whilst i fundamentally disagree with your views on what happened that day, I do respect the work you have put into this thread and I for one think you should be applauded for it.

NOTE: Rest of ATS truthers: this is how you should be presenting your arguments.

agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com...
Seismogram offers insight into Oklahoma City bombing. (pay per view)
Authors: Thomas L. Holzer, Joe B. Fletcher, Gary S. Fuis, Trond Ryberg, Thomas M. Brocher, Christopher M. Dietel.
Eos, Transactions American Geophysical Union. First Published: 3 June 2011.
PDF (1724K) References.
© 2015 American Geophysical Union

Abstract

The terrorist bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995, generated seismic waves that were recorded on two permanent seismographs about 7 and 26 km away from the bombing. The seismogram recorded at 26 km shows two low-frequency wave trains, discrete sets of oscillatory signals, that begin about 10 s apart. Public release of this record prompted speculation that each wave train was caused by a different energy source. On May 23, 1995, the U.S. Geological Survey monitored the demolition of the bomb-ravaged Federal Building with portable seismographs (Figure 1). Two wave trains were picked up again. The recordings indicate that the wave trains during both the bombing and demolition represent seismic waves traveling at different velocities. We conclude that the two wave trains recorded during the bombing are consistent with a single impulsive energy source.

Interesting conclusion. That means the WTC-7 seismogram could also be representative for two wave trains traveling at different velocities..? Don't think so.
LDEO's permanent seismographs are 34 km away from Manhattan, just like the one seismograph 26 km north of OKCity. Interesting is also that Holzer et al don't write that both seismographs registered two low frequency wave trains, thus I may presume that the one at 7 km away from the Murrah building did not register such a double wave train.
The seismographs that Dr Brown operated when the remnants of the Murrah building in OKC were demolitioned, were situated very near to those blasts, and as far as I can filter from his words, he did not mention noticing such double wave trains in his seismograms, while he did notice however, the peculiar behavior of those 5 collapse initiating blasts. They registered as much higher amplitudes than the following artificially produced collapse of the full mass of the 2/3 of the original Murrah building its remnants.

I also don't read at what distance the USGS handheld seismographs were located. Logic would force the USGS to measure beside the original permanent seismograph at 26 km. And another one beside the 7 km one.
You get however the impression from the Abstract text, that those USGS handhelds were situated near the demolition. If so, why did USGS not notice the same peculiar behavior for the 5 blasts? We may presume that USGS send their best researchers to such a nationwide followed event.
FOIA for those OKC remnants seismograms, I can't find any mention of them anymore.


Have a look at these two Presentations again :

1. Dr. André Rousseau : "Were Explosives the Source of the Seismic Signals Emitted from New York on September 11, 2001? "

Dr. André Rousseau : On the contrary, all the documented evidence points to explosions as the source of the recorded seismic signals.

2. Some Practical Applications of FORENSIC SEISMOLOGY by
J. David Rogers Geological Sciences & Engineering University of Missouri-Rolla, and
Keith D. Koper Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences St. Louis University.
98 Pages full of Seismological information on How Explosions release energy similar to earthquakes.

originally posted by: waypastvne
a reply to: LaBTop

Check out 4:11 of this video.

Falling bird screen. It's not the same one, it's from the North tower.

That's inconclusive, could be from anywhere.
I keep calling it a muffler blanket. And I have the advantage that I showed you already a real one, that came sailing along past the South Tower facade, in the muffler blanket spit-out video, and that one was light gray to whitish, and much stiffer and kept its shape, and had a stiffener stick in its center, just as the original ones.

What's much more interesting in that video from Xendrius is to see from 4:13 to 4:15. You can look through the Atrium space to the other side and outside of that, and see a whitish smoke cloud develop, at the base of the Tower, which was ONLY damaged far far up, as the OS wants us to believe.
The janitor and his tens of co-workers can swear otherwise. They only didn't get the chance to swear anywhere, nobody wanted to listen, from the 9/11 Commission.
Yes, the same Xendrius that thought that a helicopter reflection in some Tower's corner window-glass was an explosion, we make mistakes too. And that's where you come in handy, waypastvne. You also have an investigative mind, and that's a very good sign. You will develop and hone your skills, and some time we will meet somewhere in the middle.

The last subject of this video is even more interesting, can we find more about firefighters that got injured by blasts and suffered from their concussions? Breaking bones etc. Getting blown from stairs or swept away for many meters.

a reply to: LaBTop

Have a look at these two Presentations again :

1. Dr. André Rousseau : "Were Explosives the Source of the Seismic Signals Emitted from New York on September 11, 2001? "


Dr. André Rousseau : On the contrary, all the documented evidence points to explosions as the source of the recorded seismic signals.


2. Some Practical Applications of FORENSIC SEISMOLOGY by
J. David Rogers Geological Sciences & Engineering University of Missouri-Rolla, and
Keith D. Koper Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences St. Louis University.
98 Pages full of Seismological information on How Explosions release energy similar to earthquakes.

In regard to seismic data, let's take a look here and hear it from the company that was operating those seismic monitors.

August 8, 2006: No Explosives Used in WTC Collapse, Says Demolition Industry Leader

Brent Blanchard, a leading professional and writer in the controlled demolition industry, publishes a 12-page report that says it refutes claims that the World Trade Center was destroyed with explosives. The report is published on ImplosionWorld.com, a demolition industry website edited by Blanchard.

Blanchard is also director of field operations for Protec Documentation Services, Inc., a company specializing in monitoring construction-related demolitions. In his report, Blanchard says that Protec had portable field seismographs in “several sites in Manhattan and Brooklyn” on 9/11.

www.implosionworld.com...


Brent Blanchard: World Authority on Demolition Implosions

Brent Blanchard devotes section 4 of his paper to the issue of seismic recordings on 9/11. Blanchard is Senior Editor of ImplosionWorld, a website which posts details of explosive demolitions, and also Director of Field Operations at Protec Documentation Services, Inc. Protec works in the field of vibration monitoring and structure inspection, a key service to both the construction and demolition industries.

Vibration monitoring performed by independent experts has long been considered crucial for companies carrying out explosive demolition, because owners of nearby buildings are keen to sue if any cracks or other structural damage appears. The field seismographs used by Protec and others provide the key scientific evidence for disturbances that may have caused damage, and there were a number of such seismographs operated by Protec on 9/11 in the vicinity of Ground Zero, for monitoring construction sites.

Blanchard tells us that data from these machines, and seismographs operated elsewhere, all confirm single vibration events recording the collapse. None of them record the tell-tale 'spikes' that would indicate explosive detonations prior to collapse. In his words:

This evidence makes a compelling argument against explosive demolition. The laws of physics dictate that any detonation powerful enough to defeat steel columns would have transferred excess energy through those same columns into the ground, and would certainly have been detected by at least one of the monitors that were sensitive enough to record the structural collapses.

www.jnani.org...

Explosives expert, Brent Blanchard went on to say.

Brent Blanchard: No. In explosive demolitions thermite is never used.

The thermite assertion first came out three or four years after the event; there was no talk of thermite until 2004 or 2005. All of a sudden this new theory came out because all other theories were very easily proved impractical or impossible.

There was a professor over here in States that decided back then that thermite was his new theory, but the more you look into thermite the more you understand that the way it causes the metal to fail is not consistent with what happened. Then he changed his theory into nano-thermite and now he might even come out with double-nano-thermite. There are always variations that pop up about how thermite might have been used.

In order for thermite to work you have to have a release of the chemical and the chemical has to actually cause the steel to deteriorate. I don't how they think it can be done to an H-beam, or to any very thick steel beam. Thermite doesn't work horizontally, it works vertically.

You can't cause thermite to cut horizontally through steel. You can't attach thermite to a bunch of columns, dozens and dozens of columns, and expect it to start cutting clean through all those columns at a predetermined time or especially finish at the same time. I don't understand how it can even theoretically occur. And it's never been articulately explained by the theorists.

Thermite folks just tend to assert that a bunch of guys went in there, put thermite on columns that happened to already be exposed, them somehow triggered it all, and the thermite somehow cut horizontally through a bunch of columns at the same time and caused the building to fail. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Thermite also burns very hot but very slow and it's uncontrolled. When you see tests for thermite you often see it burning on a steel plate, it creates a lot of fire and reaction, but none of these reactions were seen in the Twin Towers. And again, it doesn't burn horizontally through columns that are load bearers. I don't know how it can happen.

undicisettembre.blogspot.it...

He went even further to say:

Did experts on the scene think WTC 7 was a controlled demolition?

Several demolition teams had reached Ground Zero by 3:00 pm on 9/11, and these individuals witnessed the collapse of WTC 7 from within a few hundred feet of the event.

We have spoken with several who possess extensive experience in explosive demolition, and all reported seeing or hearing nothing to indicate an explosive detonation precipitating the collapse.

As one eyewitness told us, "We were all standing around helpless...we knew full well it was going to collapse. Everyone there knew. You gotta remember there was a lot of confusion and we didn't know if another plane was coming...but I never heard explosions like demo charges.

sites.google.com...

To sum it all up, world-renowned demolition expert, Brent Blanchard, confirmed that seismic monitors operated by his company, did not detect demolition explosions, neither prior, nor during, the collapse of WTC 1, WTC 2, and WTC 7.