RARE David Gotlib “Bulletin of Anomalous Experience” 1990-94 – Abductees, False Memories, etc

originally posted by: AboveBoard
Thanks again for your research!

My pleasure.

(Sent you a U2U).

Thanks. I'll get back to you this evening.

a reply to: IsaacKoi

Unusually lower attention being paid to this thread than usual Isaac. Perhaps there is a reason behind it or it's just summer time?

But once again I thank you and applaud you.

originally posted by: mirageman
Unusually lower attention being paid to this thread than usual Isaac. Perhaps there is a reason behind it or it's just summer time?

Probably just a combination of summer time and Gotlib's Bulletin not being very well known. Several leading researchers that I quoted in my OP mentioned that the Bulletin has been largely overlooked and under-appreciated.

But once again I thank you and applaud you.

Thanks. I hope to have another collection or two ready soon (and a thread about the NSA and ufos), but I may take a little break first.

Thank you again, another very interesting batch of work to study. )

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: IsaacKoi

Unusually lower attention being paid to this thread than usual Isaac. Perhaps there is a reason behind it or it's just summer time?

But once again I thank you and applaud you.

What do you think about ATS UFO burnout in general?

All of the UFO factions on ATS seem stuck in a rut and no amount
of documents, videos or arguing is moving anything 1 Micrometer.

The "I don't believe anything except my nose attached to my face"
folks have little reason to change their opinion.

The folks who think that aliens have spent thousands of years accosting
cows and anal anal probing us are as certain as ever.

The folks who think we are building fleets of the Starship Enterprise in
complete secrecy are as certain as ever.

The folks who think it's in large part the Government that has been deceiving
us, has I would say IMHO has pretty well proven their case.

The 10 people who find the Ultraterrestrial, Aerial Phenomenon
or extra Dimensional theories credible and have done enough
research to not just be flapping their lips don't tend to talk
about it.

And, tho I can't speak for everyone, I'd be surprised if everyone
wasn't at least a bit exhausted by all of it.

What's your more in-depth opinion?

Kev

IsaacKoi, you do us all a great service by providing all these great resources to use, thank you.

As someone who has a strong interest in the UFO/Alien phenom and who is also pursuing a career in Psychology this is like a goldmine to me.

Thank you so much for this, I'm 3 entries in and really love the approach taken by this group, especially how they establish and outline the ethical criteria by which to proceed. The field I believe needs more of this kind of grounded and qualified scientific work, yet compassionate & open to the psycho-spiritual aspects and sensitive to the fact that the well-being of the abductee should be of primary importance.

I look forward to reading the rest, I may even take notes, but in either case it's good to have. You're doing good work by disseminating such information to the general public. I'm not familiar with whatever other role you may play in the field, in any; but the fact that you're distributing such work freely makes me feel like you're doing this for all the right reasons.

For all the clamor by other people and groups for disclosure, you may be one of the best examples of what that really means or how that might truly come about, as you're literally 'disclosing' seemingly good, credible source material for people to avail themselves of if they so desire. Meanwhile I won't hold my breath for any government to spoon feed me the answers of what's going on or admitting that anything is going on in the first place. I like also what someone like Daniel Sheehan has to say along these lines, but i digress.

Don't post here much atm, but felt compelled to express my gratitude to you for sharing these pages.

Cheers ~

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
What do you think about ATS UFO burnout in general?

All of the UFO factions on ATS seem stuck in a rut and no amount
of documents, videos or arguing is moving anything 1 Micrometer.

Mmm.

I think some people's interest in ufology burns out (partly for the reason you give), but new people develop an interest.

I don't see much sign of interest in ufology burning out.

I'm not sure about any objective statistical measure of posts on ATS, but my impression is that the number of posts/members peaked a while ago - but I think any decline in posting/membership in the UFO forum here on ATS is probably to be balanced against the growth of, say, UFO discussion pages on Facebook.

a reply to: IsaacKoi

I don't see interest in Ufology overall burning out; how
can it? there's all this money and effort put into hoaxing
and propping up the ET hypothesis on television and
on the lecture circuit to make money.

I think it's fair to say, that the ETH is the default
position taken by most new people.

Who then come to places like ATS and get beaten
up around the head and shoulders, as the debunker
squads (quite rightly in most cases) make them
feel foolish for giving credence to the archtypical
balloons, birds, lanterns, etc.

They then head for the disclosure youtubes and
scam sites (disclosure this, project that) and
come back posting that stuff, to again be
trounced about the head and shoulders.

I'm not a psychologist either, but I think for
a lot of folks it's misplaced "sky daddy syndrome"
as the power of religion is changing.. as so much
of religion has been debunked.

Explanations like mis-identification or government
conspiracies to cover operational or cold-war
objectives don't fill the need for sky daddies
to come rescue us.

The blind believers in debunking VS the sky daddy
worshippers is one of the main currents IMHO.

Very few people IMHO find the more nuanced
points of view, or are willing to budge from
their hardened positions for psychological
reasons (on ATS at least.. I don't have a
subjective data set for other sites on
the Internet.

Now I spend a lot of time trying to correlate
sunspot minima cycles and earthquake
fault maps and to tie it into theories of
earthlights, cold plasma, etc etc. I've
written all the big names who have even
touched any of this type of research.. and
have had only minimal luck. A lot of these
folks are stuck in their positions too,
without adequate proof either, and most
of them are dying of old age soon.

Well.. sorry if i'm off topic. The topic
is about 'anomalous experiences..
I shall have to finish reading these
documents .. thanks for posting them!

Kev

Pay dirt! Can't wait to clear my chore buffet and dig in. Thank you sincerely yet again, Isaac.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

The 10 people who find the Ultraterrestrial, Aerial Phenomenon
or extra Dimensional theories credible and have done enough
research to not just be flapping their lips don't tend to talk
about it.

Kev

As one of those "10" (or maybe the 11th?) I would say - I've just been waiting for something 'new' to be brought to the table...

...and this thread looks likely to fill the bill!

Thanks Isaac!

p.s. I hope you don't mind, but I would like to ask - if any members read items of particular interest, would they post the issue and page number it was in?

I do plan to start at the beginning and read it all but as that will take a while, I wouldn't mind skipping back and forth a bit if certain articles are recommended...

originally posted by: lostgirl

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

The 10 people who find the Ultraterrestrial, Aerial Phenomenon
or extra Dimensional theories credible and have done enough
research to not just be flapping their lips don't tend to talk
about it.

Kev

As one of those "10" (or maybe the 11th?

) I would say - I've just been waiting for something 'new' to be brought to the table...

...and this thread looks likely to fill the bill!

Thanks Isaac!

p.s. I hope you don't mind, but I would like to ask - if any members read items of particular interest, would they post the issue and page number it was in?

I do plan to start at the beginning and read it all but as that will take a while, I wouldn't mind skipping back and forth a bit if certain articles are recommended...

It's really rough for the Vallee crowd. Even Vallee is still not making
any pronouncements after more than 55 years at 'it'.

The more scientific don't want to ruin their reputations.. and the
more scientific don't generally have enough 'high strangeness' to
go it alone.

Those with enough 'high strangeness' carry a heavy burden,
not wanting to reveal what they have experienced, so that
they don't depress people (life is a delicate illusion), and
all that 'high strangeness' tends to tear up their nervous
system so that they cannot become much of a scientist
either.

You'd really need a good cadre of very open-minded
scientists, and maybe that 1 in 1 million of the high
strangeness folks who have learned how to 'sip the
waters' without becoming destroyed. Of course
such a person (if that's even truly possible)
would be marked for death. If you look at the
case histories all such 'super woo woo' people
are prone to sudden death.

I'm not aware that mix has ever been attained in
a research group.. and if it has, I doubt they would
release their information .. some power mad founder
or funder would ensure that some military use or
whatever be made of the research results.

Kev

a reply to: lostgirl

By the way.. Volume 1, Number 2 and the topic
of electrical sensitivity is the single most important
thing in all those volumes in my opinion.

If you wish, you can read about that topic in
great detail in this rather uncommon book,

"Ufos Psychic Close Encounters: The Electromagnetic Indictment "

I myself fit the bill for 'electromagnetic sensitivity' to a T, and
also the abused as a child and other factors you could read
about in that book.

I say to my inner circle, that if they want to read just one book
about UFOs and the paranormal, that is the one to read. You
can skip 90% of all the rest and it wouldn't matter. (IMHO)

Kev

Quality work and extremely interesting. Your efforts are much appreciated Mr. Koi. I doubt you will hear any complaints if you decide to maintain your current output for as long as you can manage.

a reply to: IsaacKoi

Seriously Mr. Koi I'm not sure if you are new around here but you need to make a better effort than this meatless thread.






/Kidding.

Yikes thats a lot of time kill material right there thank you sir.

I'm not sure I can kill that much time at once but I'm looking forward to when I can.

Never heard of the guy before is he the equivalent or comparable to John E. Mack ? Does he conclude its all mental issues or did he find a few cases which suggested otherwise like John Mack?
If so I appreciate you or anyone providing the reference to such cases.

Thanks Again

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I agree that Albert Budden's work is important. When I first recommended him in another thread, I'm pretty sure I made some disclaimers, though. I personally found very valuable information and insights in his work while coming to a quite different conclusion on how it fit into PART of the multifaceted goulash we call ufology.

Gotlib's experiment with the BAE obviously produced some impressive results and fruitful directions to pursue and truly does seem to be an overlooked gem. Looking, so far, like even possibly one of the most impressive research projects ever done as far as abductions go---which brings up an important question for "ufology" that we'll get to. Dr. Gotlib also has a good sense of humor to go along with his sharp mind. Cool cat I think. Thank you, Dr Gotlib, for your work and willingness to share it.

The breadth of the topics/studies/opinions/theories addressed also--at least to me--only increasingly clarifies why the intelligence apparatus had (have?) such an scientific interest in so many "weird" areas of study. Maybe a good question as relates to this is: What do abductees and national security have in common?

I've written in other threads about the DIA funded TIGER-study. In a post 9/11 world there are many actively pursued "technologies of the mind." One small-but-taken-very-seriously-study deals with learning to detect truth from falsehoods of which a subset is "learning to detect false memories from true memories." Hrmmm. Interesting, too, how the topic of terrorism and questions just like the above come up in the BAE from at least one respondent from the academic community (and whoever was funding such research) in the early 90s at that.

"Ufology" in it's broadest sense seems more and more to be about the very question of consciousness itself. Not out there, but here. Some, it seems, have an eye to manipulate that for full-spectrum dominance purposes and intentions and tend to only confuse the issue more.

As far as the ETH and the direction the BAE suggests: To get up off the ground the ETH would have to divorce itself from "Abductions." If abductions are included then what we are dealing with has been with us since we've been here and is either some deep subconscious mechanism that possibly forces societal change or something more inclusive along the lines of the inter-extra-intra-ultra dimensional/paraphysical/religio models.

The Varieties of Religious Experience by William James is a book I would consider a must if one finds--as I do--the Gotlib materials relevant. However, like Budden, while I see many valuable pieces and areas to pursue, my own interpretation of what the BAE materials suggests are certainly different in some ways.

Getting back to electromagnetism, the military-industrial complex, and what I tongue-in-cheek refer to as the "weaponization of alien technology," in the BAE materials we also get a good crash course on why it is well-within our scientific ability to create weapons that can do everything from sap folk of will power and reasoning ability to causing cells and DNA mutations to heart issues to shutting down power grids and knocking satellites out of the ether.

The effort to control EM in all it's varied functions and potentials probably contains within itself the answers to so many of the mysteries we often associate with ufology and some of, if not the, greatest national secrets extant. Quite possibly some of it on the very edge of screwing with non-local mechanics.

On the other hand, the non-local "science" part, which begins to deal with "consciousness," might also suggest that while abductions (and some close encounters) are all in the head, they might not be all in the head 'zactly if that makes sense. I'm sure Bob Monroe and the Remote Viewers/Astral Travelers were good test subjects for who knows what along those lines. Whatever happened to them, a number of them came out pretty wrecked it seems. Not that they might not have been a little fragile to begin with, but still.

Which reminds me that Dr. Christopher 'Kit" Green recently popped into mirageman's thread here and talked about ELF waves and such and how John Burroughs was damaged by a form of it at Rendlesham and on which the government recently settled his case with damages of some sort acknowledged. Just thought I'd throw that in. He's also one of the researchers and co-chair of the above-mentioned TIGER-study that we recall has an interest in delineating "True from False Memories." Abductions are referred to in that context in those studies, btw. Dr. Green is also the Chief Medical Advisor at ATS and owns, "…a fraction of a fraction of a % of Stock in The Above Network, LLC. Whether that's here nor there in the context of this thread is debatable.

Much food for thought here though! Wow. If any ufolological organization were worthy to give it to him, IsaacKoi certainly deserves Ufologist of the Decade for his continued and important work. Vital work. I do hope you hit us with the NSA-UFO thread before you tend to RL bidness, Sir. Purty please.

a reply to: The GUT

What an excellent response! I'd give
you 10 stars if I could.

I fully agree with everything you've
said here.

I'm not a UFO researcher myself..so
I really appreciate the folks like you
and Mirageman and Sir Isaac who
are.

Ultimately my personal interest in
all this began when I started reading
your threads, and I saw immediately
that UFOs are joined at the hip with
the one thing I care about.

That being, why I could read minds
when I was 4; why there were power
surges around me at puberty; why
a NGO of the UN was doing mind
control experiments using plasma
in 1981 and I was 'hit with it' and
other such incidents.

So I only incidentally research things
I'm very curious about. I really don't
have the time (I have a life) to get
terribly involved.

Thanks for all your great posts.

Kev

a reply to: IsaacKoi

Ton of people still trying to digest the aviary bomb and now this .

Man, adding this to my already currently and exhaustively extensive reading list lol. Great post though. I'm fascinated by the psychological side of the abduction phenomenon, so this appears to be a very in-depth resource on the subject. Ought to keep me occupied for a bit haha.