the peculiar christian reaction to homosexuality .

I think you are unfairly singling out Christians. Muslims are equally if not more judgmental of gayness. My aversion to gayness is not religious, but the fact I think it is gross.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Personally speaking, I feel that Christianity these days, as an organisation, is a self defeating system. I believe in Jesus, but I do not go to church and am not part of a congregation. The reason for that is that bigotry and a failure to actually apply Christ's message to their lives, has rendered some, too many, with an intolerance which borders on the fanatic. I refuse to legitimise their position by communing with any organisation which would permit that order of idiot to speak on its behalf, on any level, and for any reason.

One of the key battlegrounds, upon which Christianity as an organisation manages to fall on its sword, is the homosexuality issue. It manages to fall on its sword by refusing to counter the dogmatic and frankly deluded elements in its ranks, who scream the odds and wave placards full of HATRED toward, not a desire to save, or even tolerate, but HATE toward homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, transgendered persons.

Christ is love. Wherever his words are spoken, it is great that they are spoken at all. But that being said, those who use The Bible to justify hate are dangerously close to apostasy, those who preach hate and fire and brimstone, rather than teaching people to respond with love to their fellow man, not to judge them, not to discriminate against them, those who usurp the message of Christ to spread darkness are doing the devils work, and far more of it than could be done by ANY two people falling in love.

It does not serve Jesus to hate, it does not serve Jesus to discriminate, it does not serve Jesus to ostracise and dehumanise ones fellow human beings, and it does not serve Jesus to take the mantle of judgement about ones own shoulders, when mortal shoulders were never meant to bear its weight. In short, Christianity is more than a religion. It is a lifestyle. The WBC and others like them are not living that lifestyle, not engaging with the written word of Jesus, nor the spirit with which he dealt with his life. They ignore that he spent most of his time with lepers, bandits, barbarians and whores, the social pariahs of the age in which he lived, and showed them not hostility, but compassion.

The inhuman things that are said and done to some people by extreme Christian fundamentalists, make me sick to my guts. I will never be ashamed to be a Christian, but some of their behaviour makes me ashamed to be human.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I'm afraid I don't know what "cottaging" means, but are these outdoor exhibits? Very strange.
Does the UK allow PDA and sexual activity outdoors in the common areas?

I'd be grossed out if I was walking through a public common (park) and saw ANYONE having sex. But that's just me. "Get a room!" as we say in the states.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Revolution9

In the interests of getting this right Christ never said remarriage after divorce is adultery.

Uh, yes he did.

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

If one's partner cheats and you can't handle it or if they die that's cool with Christ. Verily I say unto you.

Yes, widows are supposed to marry their husbands' brother. And, yes, according to Jesus, it's okay to divorce and remarry IF and only IF your spouse cheated on you. But, you may not divorce and remarry for "irreconcilable differences".

Lol, you are saying I am wrong for saying what I said about Christ's advice. I am agreeing every bit with you. I said that if your partner cheats you can divorce them. I said if they die then that is cool, too. Where is the argument? Did Christ say if your partner dies and you remarry then it is adultery? Of course He did not. They even asked Him about who one's wife would be if he had multiple wives in this life. Christ replied that there will not be any marriage in Heaven as we will be as the angels are.

Please tell me I am wrong if I am wrong. I will be glad to hear it. Don't tell me I am wrong if I have been right and say exactly what you are saying. You'll scramble my brain doing stuff like that.

I better mention it as I may be picked up on what I said about trans-genderism. Peter and Paul both mention that a man should have short hair and women should have long hair. So if we change sex then we should make sure to have long hair if we become feminine or cut our hair if we become a man, hah! Really, it says nowhere in the Bible that thou shalt not change sex. Lol, we are turning into fastidious scribes like the Saducees with all this mincing over scripture.

Personally, I just do what is right for me. I think Christ had an amazing way about Him, a solid teacher and lots more. Definitely, He is one of my very favourites for His brightness. Whether a man or more than a man I respect His mind very much. I would never judge gay people or any other human. I don't want the burden of that upon my being, too heavy and pointless. There are billions of people only too glad to fill that role so the earth is not short of judges, not by a long shot. .

All of the Christians I know and have known, and I grew up in an extremely Christian small town of 6 churches - Church of Scotland, Calvinist, Episcopal, Baptist and Catholic, my own family contained Church Elders, I went to Sunday school and Church with school (I know a lot of Christians) are very conservative, they live quiet unassuming lives of family values and morals. They aren't outspoken and they aren't going around even talking about homosexuality let alone attacking people verbally or physically for it.

As for most of humanity, the cause of dislike of homosexuality is their behaviour such as mentioned on my previous comment on this thread, their lack of respect for others and families and the fact it is not conducive to survival on a biological level, as already described.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

To be fair on gay people heterosexual people do it in the UK, too. It is having sex in public places known for being hot spots where one is likely to meet another who is up for it. They call heterosexual activity "dogging" and homosexual activity "cottaging".

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Sexual activity outdoors and in common areas is not a behaviour exclusive to homosexual persons, not in the least. I walk home from town when I have been out with friends. The seafront is a beautiful place at night, with the waves lapping against the shore, the breezes rustling plants and grasses in the gardens of seafront properties... It is peaceful and refreshing. That is, of course, until I happen upon three or four cars full of men and women doing the nasty, without even the merest pretence of stealth or care for others.

It does not happen often, but it happens often enough. Now, I am not familiar with the sort of websites which provide fora for the discussion and arrangement of such things, but as I understand it, the fact that I do not come across persons engaged in this sort of activity on a more regular basis, has rather more to do with blind luck on my part, than it does with the care and concern of users of the sites. I am often out and about late at night, when the air is cooler, the sun absent from the sky, and so it is a wonder I am not more often faced with this nonsense than is the case at the moment.

a reply to: AnuTyr

Question: How many times do you walk in on two Guys having sex? accidents?

Yes Campaign against the Gays, why not wage war on fellow Humans, It's been done by Christians for eons

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

They do it outdoors wherever they can as the website describes, often in parks, beaches, public toilets, it is called ''cottaging'', it is gay sex in public places.

It isn't allowed but the police aren't exactly doing much about it if anything, in fact I know of attempted rapes that were reported and the police basically dismissed it and didn't investigate.

As you might be aware from media the UK has issues around cover ups of such things.

The first I heard of it was in the 90's from gay waiters that told me of their past, they frequented gay clubs and after they went to the park to ''cottage'' basically selling themselves to older men, they started it when they were underage, they also went to London and did the same there. When they needed money they went there, and the gym and other places.

en.wikipedia.org...

Cottaging is a UK gay slang term referring to anonymous sex between men in a public lavatory (a "cottage",[1] "tea-room"[2] or "beat"),[3] or cruising for sexual partners with the intention of having sex elsewhere.[4][5] The term has its roots in self-contained English toilet blocks resembling small cottages in their appearance; in the English cant language of Polari this became a double entendre by gay men referring to sexual encounters.[6]

"Cottage" is documented as having been in use during the Victorian era to refer to a public toilet and by the 1960s had become an exclusively homosexual slang term.[7][8] The word used in this sense is predominantly British (a cottage more commonly being a small, cosy, countryside home), though the term is occasionally used with the same meaning in other parts of the world.[9] Among gay men in America, lavatories used for this purpose are called tea rooms.

Famous examples.

Date Event

1943 Newspaper editor Clarence McNulty[25] was arrested for wilfully and obscenely exposing his person in the Lang Park toilets near Wynyard train station in Sydney, Australia. He denied the charges and this early case highlighted the practice of the police using pretty policemen[26] (i.e. as "bait") to entrap the public. As only one police officer was present in the toilet, the magistrate determined that the police were unable to correctly corroborate the evidence and gave McNulty the benefit of the doubt.[27]

1946 Sir George Robert Mowbray, 5th Baronet Mowbray, was fined for importuning men at Piccadilly Circus Underground station.[28]

1940s Tom Driberg charged with indecent assault after two men shared his bed in the 1940s and used his position as a journalist several times to get off later charges when caught soliciting in public toilets by the police.[29][30]

1953 Actor Sir John Gielgud was arrested and fined £10 for cottaging ("persistently importuning").[31][32][33]

1953 MP William J. Field was arrested for persistently importuning in a public toilet. Field appealed against the conviction twice but failed on both occasions.[34][35][36][37]

1954 American mathematician John Forbes Nash, Jr. arrested in a public toilet in Santa Monica, California. He was stripped of his top-secret security clearance and fired from the think tank where he was a consultant.[38]

1956 Sir David Milne-Watson was fined for importuning at South Kensington railway station.[39]

1962 On 6 November 1962, actor Wilfrid Brambell was arrested in a toilet in Shepherd's Bush for persistently importuning.[40]

1962 In 1962, the Mansfield Police Department conducted a sting operation in which they covertly filmed men having sex in the public restroom underneath Central Park. Thirty eight men were convicted and jailed for sodomy. After the arrest, the city closed the restrooms and filled them in with dirt. The police later made a training film of the footage. It was rereleased in 2007 as "Tearoom".[41]

1964 In October, President Lyndon B. Johnson's aide Walter Jenkins was arrested in a YMCA in Washington, D.C., and the case was subsequently dismissed.[42][43]

1968 Michael Turnbull was arrested in Hull for cottaging in a public toilet, before he became Bishop of Durham.[44]

1975 In September 1975, actor Peter Wyngarde was arrested (under his real name, Cyril Louis Goldbert) in Gloucester bus station public toilets for gross indecency with Richard Jack Whalley (a truck driver). He was fined £75.[45]

1976 Sixty-six-year-old retired U.S. Major General Edwin Walker made sexual advances to an undercover police officer in a restroom at a park in Dallas, Texas on June 23, 1976, and was arrested for public lewdness. The general pleaded no contest and was fined $1,000 and court costs.[46]

1976 Former Judge G. Harrold Carswell was convicted of battery for advances he made to an undercover police officer in a Tallahassee men's room.[47]

1981 Coronation Street actor Peter Dudley was observed exposing himself to another man in a public toilet in Didsbury, Manchester, and was charged with importuning. He pleaded guilty and was fined £200. Some months later, Dudley was charged again with gross indecency for an alleged similar offence, though this time he claimed he was not guilty and had been set up by the police. A Crown Court jury failed to reach a verdict, but while waiting for a retrial, Dudley suffered a series of strokes and heart attacks and died in October 1983.[48]

1984 Actor Leonard Sachs was fined for importuning in a public toilet.[49]

1988 Australian radio personality Alan Jones was arrested in a public lavatory block in London's West End and charged with two counts of outraging public decency by behaving in an indecent manner under the Westminster by-laws. He was later cleared of all charges and awarded costs.[50]

1990 British pop star Stedman Pearson (of the group Five Star) appeared at Kingston Magistrates Court in October 1990 and pleaded guilty to a charge of public indecency after being arrested in a public toilet in New Malden in London.[51][52][53][54][55][56]

1998 In April 1998, pop star George Michael was arrested for "engaging in a lewd act" in a public toilet in Los Angeles after a sting operation by local police. Although he considered the arrest to be police entrapment, he pleaded "no contest" to the charge in court and was fined $810 and ordered to do 80 hours of community service.[57][58] Later that year, Michael satirised the events in his music video for the song "Outside" and was sued by one of the officers in the original arrest for portraying him as non-heterosexual and mocking him. The suit was ultimately dismissed.[59][60][61]

1998 In October 1998, UK Labour Party MP Ron Davies was mugged at knife point on Clapham Common. He resigned after it became clear he was engaging in homosexual activities in a known cottaging area.[29][62][63][64]

2007 In June 2007, US Senator Larry Craig was arrested in the men's public toilet in the Lindbergh Terminal of the Minneapolis-Saint Paul International Airport in Minneapolis, Minnesota, for allegedly soliciting sex. Craig later pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct and announced his intent to resign from his post as Republican senator from Idaho[65] which he later rescinded. He contested his guilty plea and decided to serve out his term, but did not run for re-election in 2008.[66][67]

a reply to: TrueBrit

All that mostly true, but remember, that very same Christ who spent all the time ministering to the sinners also admonished them to "go and sin no more."

So there is also a fine line between showing love and acceptance which we should do and also calling out sin to remind each other to "go and sin no more" because we all of us fall short of the mark.

It's not the fact that homosexual behavior is worst than any other sin, all sins are the same. The problem is that people who practice homosexuality do not repent of this behavior. In order to get true forgiveness from God through Christ those who practice such behavior must repent, meaning they must turn their back completely from such practice. As a christian I realize breaking some habits can take awhile and the struggle to be free can be unbearable sometimes.

I have no problem with a gay person going to the church and trying to really change their ways from this through repentance and prayer. But most homosexuals do not want the forgiveness of Christ, they enjoy the sin they are living in and have no desire to change.

Forgiveness is available for gays if they want it. They just have to do two things

1). Ask for forgiveness through Christ.
2). Go and sin no more. In other words stop practicing such behavior.

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

1). Ask for forgiveness through Christ.
2). Go and sin no more. In other words stop practicing such behavior.

And, all Christian, yet unrepentant divorced and remarried couples, *that didn't divorce because of cheating, should stop living in sin as well.

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

Because we shouldn't be shamed for being who we are and loving who we love and *insert god* forbid having sex with who we want to have sex with. i'm not Religious so for me it's no big deal. but there are many Religious GLBTQ+ people who feel shamed and are being tormented by these accusations

a reply to: ketsuko

You are absolutely right, but the reality of the situation is this:

He never told us to judge those who do not manage to hit the mark. We are all sinners, and there is no sinner born to the Earth, with the right to judge others. Whether the sinner is a first offender, or a long time recidivist, it is not for us to judge them. A persons life, sins, and triumphs, are between him or herself, and Jesus, and not for mere mortals such as we are, to interfere with.

I am a sinner. I am not perfect. I have no business commenting on anyone else's sin, when I am all too aware of my own.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

1). Ask for forgiveness through Christ.
2). Go and sin no more. In other words stop practicing such behavior.

And, all Christian, yet unrepentant divorced and remarried couples, *that didn't divorce because of cheating, should stop living in sin as well.

I agree. The same rule applies for any sin you commit.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: TrueBrit

All that mostly true, but remember, that very same Christ who spent all the time ministering to the sinners also admonished them to "go and sin no more."

So there is also a fine line between showing love and acceptance which we should do and also calling out sin to remind each other to "go and sin no more" because we all of us fall short of the mark.

Ketsuko, here is a conundrum for you. If I am Christian and I have neighbours who live next door how should I approach them? Should I refuse to even speak to them? Should I be superficially nice to them, but bitch behind their backs? Should I admonish them? Or should I be friendly, kind, understanding, respectful and a good neighbour? Which is the most Christian approach?

Well, in fact I do have neighbours who are a male gay couple. There is no way I am going to just be superficially nice. I'll end up sabotaging my life with being superficially nice all the time until I become a superficially nice person. The last approach is what I practise. It is not forced. It is real. If either of my two neighbours were in trouble I would be there for them if they needed me. If they were ever in danger I would want to protect them. They are mighty decent neighbours and better than many heterosexual neighbours I have had. I feel safe with them, too, because I have an alternative lifestyle of my own and the localism here is very very conservative and I feel safer being with others living an alternative lifestyle.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

Because we shouldn't be shamed for being who we are and loving who we love and *insert god* forbid having sex with who we want to have sex with. i'm not Religious so for me it's no big deal. but there are many Religious GLBTQ+ people who feel shamed and are being tormented by these accusations

I'm simply saying IF you want Christ in your life then you have to play by the rules. You can't go to God with your own set of rules and think it's gonna fly, it wont happen. If God is not apart of your life then you shouldn't be ashamed of what you do because it doesn't matter, at least to you, but it still does to God.

I understand that most don't believe in God, or should I say the God of the Bible. But those are the rules that book has laid out for man to follow and we can't change or add anything to them. Doesn't matter if you think they are true or not.

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

and christians abstain from sin ?????????????????????

REALLY ??????????????????????

i could put this more diplomatically but :

dead men dont suck cock

pretty much sums it up

but its true - and that goes for everyone else too - i have never caught a corpse eating prawns either

i might suggets at this point that you actually aquaint yourself with christian doctrine on forgiveness / redemption

hint - the bit about when you die is a crucial clause

a reply to: ignorant_ape


Greetings and Salutations- Why does anybody give 2 squirts what someone else does or Loves? Using that same thinking, what happens when the focus is on You?

There is a verse that basically reads "In for a dime, in for a dollar" (pun intended) I already checked "Cherrypicking Bible verses" and couldn't find it.

But every time I dig a bit, it is always answered with either 2 EXCUSES: #1) "that wasn't the context in which that was meant" Or #2) "That was for the times it was written" Which time? How many versions are there? Then there is the "Adamu and Lilith, created from the same dirt..." Well this reads as if both female/male would be "equal".. Well can't have that, Adam create a Wife from Your rib and You can be "In Charge"..

"But You can't have meat on Friday" (Revision #4581) Ironically this was rewritten at a GoldenCorral™ on a Friday to take advantage of the All-You-Can-Eat-Rib Night..

They also are probably wearing some cotton and lycra, threads of 2 different weaves (Revision: #9816)

Keep Your thoughts on Your own bedroom and "kinks"..

"If You're going to point fingers better make sure Your hands are clean" Bob Marley

namaste


EDIT: "If Chris† were around today, there would be no way He would be a Chris†ian™" -Mark Twain How long has He been dead?

a reply to: ignorant_ape

The Pharisee stood and prayed within himself in this way: God, I thank You that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax-collector. I fast twice on the Sabbath, I give tithes of all that I possess. And standing afar off, the tax-collector would not even lift up his eyes to Heaven, but struck on his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner! I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself shall be abased, and he who humbles himself shall be exalted." (Luke 18:11-14)