US-led drills in Ukraine may threaten peace process: Moscow

originally posted by: LostAndFound2

originally posted by: Xcathdra
NATO is a defensive alliance only.

How can you write something like this and expect to be taken seriously

Where is your credibility.

Why should you be considered anything more than a mouth piece for western powers and bankers ?

Name one single example where NATO, as an alliance, has undertaken any offensive actions....

I know you'll trot out Libya, or Iraq or wherever, but you'll be wrong.. I'll let you have a crack first before correcting you.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: DJW001

You forget to add that the former President was being impeached by his own Parliament (full of his own party members) and decided to do a runner to Russia, with the aid of Russian Special Forces.....

If I did that I would have to add that he has not been seen since, leading to rumors that he has been liquidated for failure.

a reply to: stumason

Not chose to ignore, but wasn't at all relevant to the conversation at hand.

Unlike most of the usual suspect in these Ukrainian themed threads, i don't piss my pants at the prospect of another hit piece, propaganda opportunity, getting the boot in yet again at the slightest drop of a hat.

No the treaty didn't authorise those 26,000 legally stationed Russian troops to roam around the entire country.

But then again, the Ukrainian rebels, the original rebels that is, not the patriots defending their rights and lives in the East, but the one's who murdered innocents to get their grubby fingers on the reigns of power in Ukraine, didn't have the right to murder and maim to get their brand of neo Nazi thuggery in place either.

Russian troops, who were already legally stationed in the area, blockaded the bases you mention were as a direct result of brutality being metered out against the ethnic Russian residents of the country, who were being systematically targeted by the nazi elements of the new illegal government..book burning, talk of outlawing the Russian language, both written and spoken caused a very real and present danger of a genocide of ethnic Russians in Ukraine at the hands of the fascist thugs...Russia was called upon fro aid and protection from these 'excursions', which they naturally provided.

Far from the picture of a full scale armoured invasion you and the BBC like to paint, always conveniently forgetting to mention the Russians were there already in their tens of thousands before any of this even began!

Invasion my arse! Russia helped out their own to protect them from the fascist government thugs roaming the country, attacking all things Russian, including the people, the lingo, the literature and just about the entire Russian culture.

And Russia was just supposed to sit on it's hands, allow the fascists to commit atrocities against ethnic Russians, and ignore the repeated calls of the Crimeans for help?

Can you imagine Britain doing that? Or the USA?

Not a snowballs chance they'd ignore the pleas of their ex-pats living there if it were our people and not Russians begging for our help.

a reply to: MysterX

Far from the picture of a full scale armoured invasion you and the BBC like to paint, always conveniently forgetting to mention the Russians were there already in their tens of thousands before any of this even began!

No one is painting a picture of a full scale armoured invasion; there are infantry in city streets and a few tracked vehicles. Just because the numbers aren't on the scale of D-Day doesn't mean an invasion is not an invasion.

Invasion my arse! Russia helped out their own to protect them from the fascist government thugs roaming the country, attacking all things Russian, including the people, the lingo, the literature and just about the entire Russian culture.

Now who's painting an exaggerated and hysterical picture?



This is clearly the work of Neo-Nazis. What language is this in?

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: DJW001

You forget to add that the former President was being impeached by his own Parliament (full of his own party members) and decided to do a runner to Russia, with the aid of Russian Special Forces.....

This, i actually see some truth in, which is quite rare on these Ukrainian threads with so much government interest in the exchanges between lil-ol us on these boards it's surprising to read.

Yes, the former administration was bent.

Yes, they were on the make, on the take and probably a lot more besides too...however, the elections were a mere matter of months away...and the Ukrainian people couldn't wait to make their outrage at being screwed known at the ballot box, instead of the rifle muzzle?

Look where that inspired move has gotten the country..the previous administration would have had to be on the nick constantly for decades hence to even equal the financial impact of the strife in that country, let alone the 1000's dead and 100's of thousands living in abject misery, not to mention the international turmoil that has bitten hard, especially on European trade.

You still think they were justified given the result...patience is supposed to be virtuous is it not?

How about here in the UK...Blair and his government lied his / their arse(s) off over Iraq, and more...should we all have gotten particularly irate and had a civil war when the police wouldn't allow us to string them up and watch them dangle from a lamp post then?

Would that have been justified do you think?

originally posted by: MysterX
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

I'm not the one picturing hordes of Nazis butchering innocent, peace loving Russians for sport.

Edit to add: ... and British politicians being strung up by their heels.

a reply to: MysterX

So, after all that, your basing your entire post on the false accusation that Ukraine forces were engaged in ethnically motivated violence....

I assume you have some evidence of this - or are you merely parroting the Russian line?

a reply to: MysterX

Far from the picture of a full scale armoured invasion you and the BBC like to paint, always conveniently forgetting to mention the Russians were there already in their tens of thousands before any of this even began!

Let me make this clear - as you're (deliberately?) confusing the issue.

THERE WERE NO RUSSIAN TROOPS IN EASTERN UKRAINE AS PART OF THE CRIMEA BASING RIGHTS - Those that were based there had no right to do any of what they subsequently did, certainly not on the spurious accusations of "ethnic cleansing" of which there exists virtually no evidence.

So explain what they are doing there now.

a reply to: DJW001

You can string up their heels if you like, i'd go for the more efficient area under their chins.

a reply to: stumason

I KNOW RUSSIAN TROOPS WERE NOT STATIONED IN EAST UKRAINE LEGALLY..they were stationed around the Crimean peninsular, but for some bizarre reason, saw their country folk in jeopardy and wanted to protect them...nuts i know, but there you go.

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: stumason

I KNOW RUSSIAN TROOPS WERE NOT STATIONED IN EAST UKRAINE LEGALLY..they were stationed around the Crimean peninsular, but for some bizarre reason, saw their country folk in jeopardy and wanted to protect them...nuts i know, but there you go.

The only ethnic violence in Crimea was against Tatars and Jews:

www.aljazeera.com...

www.jpost.com...

Edit to correct link.

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: stumason

I KNOW RUSSIAN TROOPS WERE NOT STATIONED IN EAST UKRAINE LEGALLY..they were stationed around the Crimean peninsular, but for some bizarre reason, saw their country folk in jeopardy and wanted to protect them...nuts i know, but there you go.

I was making it clear as you are banging the "Russia had tens of thousands of troops in the country anyway" drum - not in Eastern Ukraine they didn't and where the fighting is currently taking place with upwards of 10,000 Russian regulars present.

And no they didn't see their "countrymen" in trouble - Putin himself admitted they had a plan before the crisis reached it's zenith to "repatriate" the Crimea and they used the old "ethnic Russians" argument to "justify" it.

Putin reveals meeting on 22nd February 2014 to annex Crimea - this was before President Yanukovich had even fled and the day after the Parliament voted to impeach him.

a reply to: stumason

It's amazing how quiet they go when confronted with actual, bonafide evidence (and I am still waiting on the evidence of ethnic cleansing as claimed)..

So, given they planned to annex Crimea before the previous President had even fled, how does this stack up with claims of targeted, ethnic violence by the Ukraine Army as used in the excuse for the Russian invasion? Because if they are claiming the Army was doing this on orders from Kiev - as they do - that means the orders came from the Yanukovich administration...

Unless - shock horror - the claims are bogus.....

a reply to: stumason

This is a large website with a large selection of topics...you can choose to be a boring one trick pony and bang on and on in this forum if you like.

Even to the point of answering your own posts it seems...clearly, you have some psychological need to convince even yourself ad nauseam.

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: stumason

This is a large website with a large selection of topics...you can choose to be a boring one trick pony and bang on and on in this forum if you like.

Even to the point of answering your own posts it seems...clearly, you have some psychological need to convince even yourself ad nauseam.

Haha, one look at my posting history will show I am no "one trick pony" - nice try, no cigar..

But, the fact remains, instead of actually addressing the content, ie; the fact the annexation of Crimea was planned before even Yukanovich fled office and had nothing to do with the ethnic violence you have claimed (still awaiting that evidence by the way), you have simply chosen to try and be a smart arse and attack the poster...

What say you to the admission by Putin that on the 22nd February 2014, they held a meeting in Moscow to discuss the annexation of another sovereign nations land? What does that do to claims of ethnic violence, as surely that would have taken place under the old administration, if it even happened at all?

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: DJW001

You forget to add that the former President was being impeached by his own Parliament (full of his own party members) and decided to do a runner to Russia, with the aid of Russian Special Forces.....

Oh and my favorite part loaded a transport plane in the middle if the night just to flee to RussiA.. Ukrainians wake up the next morning and realize their president skipped out his guards gone and no one knee where he went.. Then of course he pops up in Russia with billions in Ukrainian money. Also makes me wonder what he had to pay Putin to stay.. Also find it odd that his son died I'm sure he does to everyone in the vehicle survived except him. Makes you wonder if they were just getting rid if the body and he was already dead in the trunk.