Organised debunking of anything Chemtrail is well oiled

a reply to: LostAndFound2

Well Oiled indeed! But like any Machine, it will break down... Their oil is thin and cheap...Worthless...

One question for debunkers.:
If the hot air in an engine makes that 'contrail',(Plus dirt particles, etc...), are You seriously saying that air stays that hot all freakin day? (The air around it would make that hot air cool down to it's natural surroundings, thus a contrail dissapates soon after creation...) Or maybe that hot air is Magic?
Seriously... Syx...

originally posted by: LostAndFound2
It isn't even debatable if Chemtrail program exists

Anyone spending time looking up will see clear difference between fast dissipating contrails and haze/cloud seeding Chemtrails

But reading ATS I would swear on my grandpas grave that Chemtrail folks are all lunatics who live underground in sewers and have mental issues

That's how oiled and organised Debunking is

Yes. There are many people on ATS and elsewhere who have knowledge of meteorology and avionics, and, indeed, read scientific papers, who are fortunately on hand to explain the truth to those who, through no fault of their own, are ignornant of the issues and, understandably, fall for the chemtrail hoax.

Debunking is all about dispelling myths and denying ignorance. What is wrong with that?

a reply to: Robert Reynolds

for people claiming :

" its in the fuel "

there is one killer comeback :

as the fuel is filtered - the alledged " chemtrail " agent must be either a liquid - or soluble in kerosene .

please name a compound of barium , strontium , aluminium etc etc [ the common alledged " chemtrail " elements ] that is either a liquid at room temperature or disolves in kerosene

amazingly - i have not had an answer yet

PS - any aqueous solution has the problem that the max permited water content of fuel is so low that a stable solution would not deliver any useable payload of alledged " chemtrail agent "

so - the " its in the fuel " argument falls apart instantly

next claim ?

a reply to: SyxPak

FFS - it is the fact that the jet exhaust cools in contact with the ambient air that creates the contrail

this is basic physics

a reply to: Chadwickus

ahem....saying there is no conclusive proof either way is a "logic fail"?
Really????

What I did say using the US as an example is NO ONE KNOWS what the heck is going on up in the skies at any given time.
Not me, and certainly not you.

It was interesting about chemicals needing to be soluble in a kerosine based jet fuel, and Zaphod explaining how the newer aircraft engines work.

originally posted by: Robert Reynolds
I don't think we need to worry about the rise of the 'bozos' just yet. It's a non-issue outside of internet discussion and I'm sure you could make a more valuable contribution to society if you really wanted to.

The whole reason I'm on ATS is to pass the time and to entertain myself. I'm not here to make any sort of valuable contribution to society...

You'd be wasting your time and indulging yourself if you were to discuss the existence of Unicorns - it would serve no purpose. Have you studied logic? How would prove that Unicorns don't exist?

The same way I go about doing it in the "does god exist" threads. The null hypothesis and Occam's Razor. It's not definitive, but it works for me.

You sound like a very easily influenced person.

Why? Because I spent time considering a bunch of topics' evidence for and against them to see which was more valid then sided with the argument that had the most compelling argument? Oh wait, you have no idea how my thought process works when it comes to selecting whether I believe something or not, so your statement here was just downright derivative and insulting.

How many vapour trails have you personally tested?.

None, but I'm not making claims about what's in them, now am I? The burden of proof lies on the people making the claims. I side with the generally accepted explanation that chemtrails are bogus nonsense. There is no NEED for me to test anything.

Without knowing the purpose of the supposed chemtrails how could a possible economic viability even be discussed?

There are many aspects of cost that can be discussed without knowing the motive. Like the cost to implement a plane with a chemtrail sprayer for one.

We'd need to know the desired effect before discussing motivation.

Desired effect and motivation are the same thing buddy...

That's a very broad statement.

It sure is.

No, I've never studied logic, I wouldn't waste my time. Nice cut 'n' paste job of somebody else's words though. Could you prove the non-existence of Unicorns now?

Cut N paste? I didn't cut and paste anything. These are all my words I've given you. You must be unfamiliar with me on these forums. This is how I always type.

Also, why wouldn't you study logic? It's a fantastic process to construct proper arguments as well as to follow a line of reasoning to see if it is sensible or not. It's also one of the things I'd use to disprove unicorns, but seeing as how you don't know how logic works, it looks like it'd fly over your head.

a reply to: LostAndFound2

the problem is that " chemtrail proponents " belie thier ignorance of basic science every time and i mean EVERY time they make a claim

and show an utter incapacity for learning

this farce [ chemtrail claims ] has been going on for over 15 years - but the same idiots still regurgitate the same lies

a reply to: ignorant_ape

FFs then why does a 'persistant Contrail' continue to esixt? You just proved, with your basic physics, that that hot air cools... That 'Contrail' should have evapoarted then right? They are only temporary...

WTF anyway...

Double speak that out of existance...

No, just give Me a f king break...

Outta here...(gone......) ...

originally posted by: SyxPak
a reply to: LostAndFound2

Well Oiled indeed! But like any Machine, it will break down... Their oil is thin and cheap...Worthless...

One question for debunkers.:
If the hot air in an engine makes that 'contrail',(Plus dirt particles, etc...), are You seriously saying that air stays that hot all freakin day? (The air around it would make that hot air cool down to it's natural surroundings, thus a contrail dissapates soon after creation...) Or maybe that hot air is Magic?
Seriously... Syx...

Aircraft Contrails Fact Sheet

Contrails are line-shaped clouds or “condensation trails,” composed of ice particles, that are visible behind jet aircraft engines, typically at cruise altitudes in the upper atmosphere1. Contrails have been a normal effect of jet aviation since its earliest days. Depending on the temperature and the amount of moisture in the air at the aircraft altitude, contrails
evaporate quickly (if the humidity is low) or persist and grow (if the humidity is high). Jet engine exhaust provides only a small portion of the water that forms ice in persistent contrails. Persistent contrails are mainly composed of water naturally present along the aircraft flight path.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Robert Reynolds

for people claiming :

" its in the fuel "

Who are these people? Am I one? If not, why address me?

there is one killer comeback :

as the fuel is filtered - the alledged " chemtrail " agent must be either a liquid - or soluble in kerosene .

please name a compound of barium , strontium , aluminium etc etc [ the common alledged " chemtrail " elements ] that is either a liquid at room temperature or disolves in kerosene

Your argument is deliberately narrow and you are responding to your own words. It's obviously easy to invent a point to respond to, but it's a transparent means of guiding a 'debate'.

amazingly - i have not had an answer yet

You get ignored a lot, do you?

PS - any aqueous solution has the problem that the max permited water content of fuel is so low that a stable solution would not deliver any useable payload of alledged " chemtrail agent "

Well, I must say this all sounds very 'sciency' and all that, but I'm not sure if you've responded to the right person.

so - the " its in the fuel " argument falls apart instantly

Good score! Chalk it up! It wasn't all that instantaneous though.

next claim ?

Er...you're arguing with yourself. At least that way nobody ignores you though, eh?

a reply to: SyxPak

as you wish to spit your dummy out and validate my earlier claim that chemtrail proponents are resistant to learning basic science so be it . se ya

a reply to: Robert Reynolds

oh dear - first off - do you accept that the alledged " chemtrail agent " cannot be in the fuel [ for the reasons given ]

if not why not ??????????????

if its not in the fuel - where is it - its not a trick question - and goes back to the post YOU replied to my mystikmushroom

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: LostAndFound2

Like others I was on the fence about the whole Chemtrail debate until I came to ATS and someone suggested that I download a Flight Radar App which will show live data. I did just that and I can turn on the app and point it at any suspicious aircraft to find out all the data I needed. This made me aware that the aircraft were just normal civilian aircraft that created persistent contrails and I was able to sleep better at night

However..... that all being said we do have an issue with aircraft contrails that has been completely overshadowed by the Chemtrail Theory is that these persistent contrails do block out sunlight and could be a cause of Vitamin D deficiency and other health issues. Perhaps we need to put as much effort into these issues from Aircraft Contrails has on our health as we do discussing the Chemtrail Theory.....

Vapour trails caused by jet aircraft over Britain can cause clouds covering 20,000 square miles, according to Met Office research, reducing sunshine by up to 10 per cent.

Jet contrails above Britain can block sunshine over 20,000 square miles

Vitamin D has been shown to improve a number of brain disorders, including dementia and its most severe form, Alzheimer’s disease,1 the latter of which now affects an estimated 5.2 million Americans.2

Link Between Vitamin D Deficiency and Dementia Confirmed

Very good point & I noticed no one touched it.
Another point is Kerosine itself is a chemical and evaporation or not it's still being pumped out by every aircraft up there criss crossing the skies. Add up the number of aircraft daily that's a ton of mico-particles being dispersed. Times that by 365 X years I'd be inclined to think in this scenario a Chem/Contrail by another name is just as crappy as what an actual chemtrail would be?

It's still an artificial product being dispersed into the environment.

If folks are going to go ape-crap over vehicle exhaust how are aircraft getting off the hook? It would obviously alter the atmosphere either way.

a reply to: SyxPak

One question for debunkers.: If the hot air in an engine makes that 'contrail',(Plus dirt particles, etc...), are You seriously saying that air stays that hot all freakin day? (The air around it would make that hot air cool down to it's natural surroundings, thus a contrail dissapates soon after creation...) Or maybe that hot air is Magic?
Seriously

Seriously indeed!.......by which I mean, did you seriously just ask that question!

a reply to: Robert Reynolds

And if he can't come across it -- then it must be real?

Sorry, but that logic isn't very sound if I can turn it back around like that

www.telegraph.co.uk...
"The findings echo 2003 research, led Patrick Minnis at NASA’s Langley Research Centre in Virginia, that said contrails “already have substantial regional effects where air traffic is heavy” and that the impact “may become globally significant” because of the growth in air travel.
The Met Office analysis was based on observations of a single military Awacs aircraft circling over the North Sea on a sunny day earlier this year.
Researchers had expected high-level winds to disperse its contrails but instead they appeared to attract more clouds that continued to grow as they were blown southwards until eventually they formed a hazy high-level blanket of cirrus cloud across southeast England.
Jim Haywood, the Met Office’s aerosol research manager who led the new study, told the newspaper: “At its peak the resulting cirrus cloud covered an area of more than 20,000 square miles.”
He added: “Such clouds are normally short-lived but, depending on atmospheric conditions, they can last much longer.”
It is thought that low temperatures at high altitudes can cause ice crystals in the vapour to act as ‘nuclei’ for condensation of more water, resulting in more cloud.
Mr Haywood said aviation-induced cirrus clouds had both a cooling effect, because of sunlight reflected back into space, and a warming effect, because of trapped heat.
“Studies show that, overall, the warming effect is stronger so aviation-induced clouds are helping to warm the planet,” he said."



For people too lazy to go to the link....
Kinda explains why the contrails aren't dissipating, altho interestingly no mention of aircraft exhaust pollution.
May have to google that?

originally posted by: SyxPak
a reply to: ignorant_ape

FFs then why does a 'persistant Contrail' continue to esixt?

Er, why do clouds exist?

Displaying ignorance is not the best way to win an argument

I assume you never thought to find out?

science-edu.larc.nasa.gov...

a reply to: SyxPak

FFs then why does a 'persistant Contrail' continue to esixt? You just proved, with your basic physics, that that hot air cools... That 'Contrail' should have evapoarted then right? They area only temporary...

science-edu.larc.nasa.gov...

Enjoy.

a reply to: AndyMayhew

Damn slow connection.

I guess good minds think alike.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Robert Reynolds

And if he can't come across it -- then it must be real?

No. I never said, nor implied that.

Sorry, but that logic isn't very sound if I can turn it back around like that

You misunderstand my point. I was undermining the basis of your argument, and while thinking that you've 'scored a point' you've inadvertently conceded that indeed your initial point was indeed weak.