Training evangelical pastors to be politicians

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Comment to place mark - I'll have to get back to you on this latter - I read something similar recently - something more subtantial. In the meantime, Look at "The Family" By Jeff Sharlet - this isn't new and it goes back aways.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: beezzer

Guess that depends on how they view the Supreme Court, or who they decide to appoint to it.

Doesn't that just justify the fears that conservatives have by electing a liberal, progressive person?

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Oh my oh my....

Jesus camp for adults seeks to impose Christianity on the US by converting 1,000 pastors into politicians

I learned about the New Apostolic Reformationist and Seven Mountain Dominionists a couple of years ago. At that time, they remained rather "underground", below the radar. No more.

You all will have to click the link to see the story (originally posted in the International Business Times, but I couldn't find it on there) - this version is on rawstory.com. I can't post a snippet either.

Briefly, the evangelicals are mobilizing big time - a gathering commenced to begin training pastors to become political operatives - i.e. running for office. 300 of them in Florida, with Mike Huckabee slated as keynote speaker.

This is rather alarming.
This began last November, according to the Washington Times.

A prominent evangelical Christian leader has launched an effort to recruit 1,000 pastors willing to run for political office, hoping to inject religious issues and candidates into the 2016 election.

David Lane, the founder of the American Renewal Project, said he hopes he can persuade pastors to run for offices as varied as school board and city council to the state legislature and Congress. He’s scheduled an organizing meeting in January in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.



Read more: www.washingtontimes.com...
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

An additional link from The American Renewal Project


It seems to me there must be some boundary that is being crossed, but maybe not. It just sounds .... off.

By engaging pastors and church communities, Mr. Lane hopes ultimately that more Christians will head to the polls.

“We have a Christian responsibility to engage people and get out the vote,” Mr. Lane said adding that the pastors “might decide that the Lord doesn’t want them to run for office, but they may have someone in their church who is very talented and can encourage them to.”

He argued that America was established as a Judeo-Christian nation and that separation of church and state was never meant to keep religion out of politics.

“There’s no truth to that, the Constitution says the state is to keep out of the church, it doesn’t say the church is to keep out of the state,” Mr. Lane said, adding that secularism is another religion that’s being imposed on Americans.



Read more: www.washingtontimes.com...
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Another storm brewing....not so quietly. Americans mustn't let themselves be taken by surprise. Please do your due diligence and learn all you can about those hopefuls currently running for office, and how they are recruiting. What party do they claim?

I'll just leave this here and see if anyone wants to discuss it.

If our governments are actually democracies, then surely there should be a representation of the most popular group of affiliated citizens and it should be proportionally sized to that representation.

About 70% of Americans identify themselves as Christian. It has been estimated that there are 513,200 political offices (local and state government) in the United States. 70% of that would be 359,240. So 1,000 politicians hardly approaches proportional representation.

This is simply democracy in action. A consequence of democracy is that there are those who believe and act differently than others.

The U.S. is NOT a democracy, though. Christians have no rights above any other group according to the constitution.

The US is supposed to be a constitutional democracy, however I believe that the power has become abstracted away from democratic mandate and that people are being educated that their voice is meaningless,to keep them from expressing their power.

I personally have a faith in democratic process and have been one of many few who started a political party in my country, a party that now shares government in a coalition with other parties. The party was elected to government in mandatory vote (i.e: one cannot legally abstain from voting as happens in the US) and I take that as an indication that its election is the will of the majority of citizens. It also validates each individual voice.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

If they adhere to the Constitution, then there shouldn't be a problem, should it?

So it isn't a problem when you have elected officials sitting on science boards that will deny the science because their religion says different?

IMO that is a problem.

Another example would be the Texas education review of what are in textbooks.

I think it is problematic when they remove founding fathers from the books and replace them with Moses.

I am sure that is all constitutional, but it is still a problem.

a reply to: grimpachi

That is why you vote.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: GUITARPLAYER

You're confused, perhaps.

It wasn't murder or rape God commanded. Those "murders" were righteous justice being handed down on any and all of Gods enemies. Those people should not have followed other gods. Or they should have listened to priests. Or should not have been gay. Or been the sons of sinners. Or should not have been atheists. Or should not have spoken false prophecies (which may have come directly from the Lord). It wasn't murder when they executed females who weren't virgins on their wedding night. Or when it was punishment for striking parents. Or fornication. Or adultery. Or blasphemy.

No.. none of those things were murder.

Nor was it rape, when God's chosen people went across the land destroying God's enemies and taking their women for wives of their own. Totally was not rape to become the wife of the man who killed your father and brothers.

/sarc

What scares me is I know for a fact there are some Christians who believe all the crazy Old Testament stuff still applies and should be followed strictly. God forbid they ever get into positions of influence. Even if they are unable to influence..

Please show me where I brought up the bible.
I said that most laws go back to heavenly inspired laws the Sumerians stated that their laws came directly from heaven.

a reply to: grimpachi

I see it just as great a problem when ideology trumps common sense in any example provided.

Progressives aren't innocent in any of this.

Sometimes though, we have to trust the Constitution.

It's why I would still support Sanders and have registered as a *gasp* democrat here in Oregon.

If I had registered as a republican or independent or libertarian, you'd be able to fit all of us in a phone booth.

At least, as a democrat, I can work within the framework and use the Constitution to defend any position or issue.

I wonder what the tax exempt status of the american renewal project is...
just wondering since it really does seem that their goal is to cross the line of separation of church and state.

oh well, you can paint lipstick on a pig but it doesn't make it anythng more than just a pretty pig. and well, you can try to dress up a nation with laws all you want it won't make it a christian nation, just a country of hypocrits!
in the end if they succeed, the biggest losers will be the christains themselves, since well, the hypocrits that will work their way into office will turn on them just as fast as anyone else who raises a stink over what they are doing. after all most of the witches who were burned were probably christians who just tried to put some sanity back into people!

a reply to: beezzer

Doesn't that just justify the fears that conservatives have by electing a liberal, progressive person?

I thought you all were worried about having things forced on you. What possible reason could a pastor have to want to be trained to engage in politics? To rally 1,000 church leaders together to train them how to make this a theocracy, and how to recruit their congregations to run for office as well to ensure it?

Why?

Texas textbooks, Westboro Baptist Church, John Hagee, and so forth come to mind. (You know all this stuff, and so does xuen. Can you talk openly about it without just resorting to your one-line standards?



But if you're talking about the 2nd amendment, it's not only off-topic but a moot point. No one has taken your guns away. No one even WANTS to take your guns away. (But I suppose, on the other hand, that might be one issue that dies away at last. Everybody has guns. Cool. Works for Switzerland. I have two of my own, and know how to use them.)

So some people think this will turn into an ISIS style military operation?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I see the progressive element having more of a destructive impact on the Constitution than the danger of any theocracy developing.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: chr0naut

Nothing new in any of this this at all. The responses of fear, horror and indignation that have been expressed in this thread are not really historically soundly based, for any democratic government.

The fear, horror and indignation probably has something to do with how many people are now dead or refugees in the ME, where some people decided they needed to take over the entire region. You think? And the fact that they aren't being very nice about it....that might be it, too.

Militants are militants.

ISIL/IS/ISIS are terrorists who torture and murder people (I believe that they are Islamic in name only, the majority of their victims are Muslim and they have destroyed Islamic sites of religious significance).

Evangelical Christian Pastors have no particular history of violence as an organization and appear to be adhering to democratic process.

a reply to: xuenchen

So some people think this will turn into an ISIS style military operation?

"will turn into" and "might someday" are two different things. Don't pretend you don't get the point. Churches are burning, kids are shooting up congregations, old farts are killing people outside Jewish Community Centers.

Not to mention (and yes, I'm deliberately catastrophizing) - how do you think American Muslims would react?

a reply to: chr0naut

Evangelical Christian Pastors have no particular history of violence as an organization

Ever heard of John Hagee? He's wanted to drop bombs on Iran for years....and just this past week he's announcing how God will abandon the US, and that something needs to be done, or we are Sodom and Gomora (sp?) redux.

He is a HUGELY popular televangelist and mega-church leader, worth millions. He's not kidding around either. In fact, if you want to pit a businessman against an evangelical, he's the ideological equivalent of Donald Trump.

a reply to: chr0naut
From the constitution of the United States...

Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

From Ben Franklin's own mouth...

"A Republic. If you can keep it."

Pledge of allegiance...

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

We are a Constitutional Republic. Our representatives are however, voted for democratically.

Welcome to the United Christian States of America .
So glad it will never get like this in the UK.

originally posted by: GUITARPLAYER
Please show me where I brought up the bible.

You didn't directly. I thought it was implied because you said "religious base laws", and because you are a Christian. If I recall correctly. However, my apologies if that is not the case.

I said that most laws go back to heavenly inspired laws the Sumerians stated that their laws came directly from heaven.

Yes, that was after my post. So I didn't see this clarification.

Again, my apologies if my sarcasm was unfairly aimed at you.

a reply to: beezzer

It's why I would still support Sanders and have registered as a *gasp* democrat here in Oregon.

If I had registered as a republican or independent or libertarian, you'd be able to fit all of us in a phone booth.

At least, as a democrat, I can work within the framework and use the Constitution to defend any position or issue.

And again, I want to say that I'm very proud of you.
(Off-topic, but just a quick Q: Yeah - so, Oregon...quite the progressive place, right? Pretty cool? You like it?)

I feel good knowing beezer is an Oregonian.