Press Banned from Jade Helm Exercises

I might add...did the country fall during RAVEN? Did you even know it was going on?

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: reldra

Good, the press shouldn't be involved with watching military maneuvers. Especially ones involving the special forces. You know how annoying it is to conduct training while having to worry about reporting to some idiot reporter (especially one who may or may not twist your words into some stupid conspiracy)?

The military doesn't need to satisfy dumb conspiracy theorists' concerns. The military has a job to do, and the press would just impede them.

The newspaper wanted one journalist to observe. I think the people have a right to have some idea of what the military is doing on US soil, especially outside of military bases. There are conspiracy theories regarding this already all over the place. The ship sailed on that months ago. 'Idiot reporter' 'stupid conspiracy'?

Why do they have that right? Where is it enumerated in the Constitution that the people have the right to know what the military is doing? And the conspiracies ARE stupid. I was in the military. I've conducted state side training operations where we pretended we were in an urban environment and looking for terrorists. This training exercise is nothing new, but because OBAMA is in charge right now, the right wing media has to work itself up into a tisy over a standard operation that the Army does all the time.

a reply to: Bedlam

Who says it's your business to look at it at all? Why do you feel that you have some unalienable right to news coverage of a military exercise?

What are they keeping so secret, the people don't have a right to know about it?

After all the training is officially to prepare for Iraq and Afghanistan, but that training is already ongoing at military bases and in those countries.

When "training" leaves the base, goes domestic and is secret, thats when we need to know even more what they are preparing for.

originally posted by: Bedlam
I might add...did the country fall during RAVEN? Did you even know it was going on?

One time we absolutely agree , Bedlam...

originally posted by: intrptr

When "training" leaves the base, goes domestic and is secret, thats when we need to know even more what they are preparing for.

Why?

originally posted by: reldra

You did not read the article I provided in the OP. "The military has granted access to Special Operations in the past, however. In one recent example, a journalist observed the operation Robin Sage in North Carolina, writing a profile for Our State, a magazine."

It was a decent article. If you notice, everyone is either in the training group permanently assigned to the base, or you see their backs. Or they're in very obscure camo.


They're just being whingey about something they're not going to get. Not yours.

originally posted by: intrptr
What are they keeping so secret, the people don't have a right to know about it?

Pretty much everything, you want to get down to it.

eta: they SAY that, but a lot of this is NORTHCOM/SOCNORTH integration exercises. I, for one, am happy that they're finally addressing a huge, open, bleeding, festering, godawful hole in our national security plans, even if only tangentially, and I suspect that what they find here will be cause for a lot of changes and further, similar drills.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Bedlam

Who says it's your business to look at it at all? Why do you feel that you have some unalienable right to news coverage of a military exercise?

What are they keeping so secret, the people don't have a right to know about it?

After all the training is officially to prepare for Iraq and Afghanistan, but that training is already ongoing at military bases and in those countries.

When "training" leaves the base, goes domestic and is secret, thats when we need to know even more what they are preparing for.

The larger training Ops and the ones that the military deems needs to be kept under wraps are not even spoken about to the public beforehand. That is what is strange in this case. And if you read about Jade Helm it seems almost a game of hide in plain sight and seek.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Why do they have that right? Where is it enumerated in the Constitution that the people have the right to know what the military is doing?

The constitution is clear on the distinction between civil and military use in "civilized" areas.

Standing armies that occupy civil areas for whatever reason are oppressive by their very nature.

Lockdowns, military style searches, road blocks, etc., oppress the people en masse, and we know they are going to use this to get one or two guys just like they did in Boston.

Pretty soon, they will be used to replace the civil authorities, going after criminals, searching for "shooters".

Open the flood gates to permanent military style occupation in extended operations to find one or two guns or one or two guys that stole a car from some bureaucrat.

Thats what the framers warned about and set u the bill of rights for.

Freedom of press, movement, gathering, arming, redress of grievances, search and seizure, occupation by soldiers, all lost once troops arrive.

a reply to: Bedlam I was replying to gothmog. he stated there was no press at Robin Sage and there certainly was. The other he referred to is a military training center, meant for military training.

originally posted by: Gothmog
The larger training Ops and the ones that the military deems needs to be kept under wraps are not even spoken about to the public beforehand. That is what is strange in this case. And if you read about Jade Helm it seems almost a game of hide in plain sight and seek.

I think that's intentional in this case, in the sense of 'mastering the human domain'. If your aggressor teams didn't have Joe Citizen after them as well, then the home teams would be at a bigger disadvantage.

The aggressor teams are going to have to enter, attack their targets and exfil without getting caught to be successful. If I were doing this, I'd have at least considered some phase in which you HAVE to interact with the locals to be successful. It would certainly up the difficulty.

a reply to: reldra
Robin Sage exercise to run in North Carolina counties July 21 through Aug. 1

Between July 21 and Aug. 1, approximately 100 of these students will participate in this exercise before graduating the course and moving on to their first assignments in the Army's Special Forces community. Robin Sage is a two-week exercise run eight times a year, once for each class of Special Forces candidates.

Nothing major there.

And did I mention Op Robin Sage ? No , I did not... . I have a cousin that had to go through that for Spec Ops.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: Bedlam I was replying to gothmog. he stated there was no press at Robin Sage and there certainly was. The other he referred to is a military training center, meant for military training.

If you'd really like your head to rotate, you ought to pay attention to the exercises WHINSEC runs in the US.

O'course, that doesn't make the news at all. But it's funny to watch it going on and no-one the wiser.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: intrptr
What are they keeping so secret, the people don't have a right to know about it?

Pretty much everything, you want to get down to it.

eta: they SAY that, but a lot of this is NORTHCOM/SOCNORTH integration exercises. I, for one, am happy that they're finally addressing a huge, open, bleeding, festering, godawful hole in our national security plans, even if only tangentially, and I suspect that what they find here will be cause for a lot of changes and further, similar drills.

We all know the war on terror is BS, the actual incidence of terror acts is minimal, the need for such military style units is not necessary, but see the over reaction of such in the Boston Manhunt and Ferguson, for instance.

Each time something happens theres this huge over reaction and misallocation of resources that end up violating more rights.

Look at Boston Man hunt for instance, their whole mission to lockdown and sweep the city was for naught, a civilian reported the suspect hiding in a boat in in his yard.

But shows their ratcheting up and incremental response to such events, minor in nature overall, but blown out of pre portion, risking everyones safety and sanctity.

The constitution and the bill of rights was written to protect the people from the British military presence who set up roadblocks, occupied peoples homes, searched everywhere for (arms) firearms, etc., etc.

They know where this leads. They set up a division between civil and military authorities for just those reasons.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Why do they have that right? Where is it enumerated in the Constitution that the people have the right to know what the military is doing?

The constitution is clear on the distinction between civil and military use in "civilized" areas.

This isn't an answer to my question.

Standing armies that occupy civil areas for whatever reason are oppressive by their very nature.

Lockdowns, military style searches, road blocks, etc., oppress the people en masse, and we know they are going to use this to get one or two guys just like they did in Boston.

We do? It was just said that the press can't know what is going on during this training exercise and somehow "we" know this?

Pretty soon, they will be used to replace the civil authorities, going after criminals, searching for "shooters".

Open the flood gates to permanent military style occupation in extended operations to find one or two guns or one or two guys that stole a car from some bureaucrat.

Got to love this slippery slope fallacy.

Thats what the framers warned about and set u the bill of rights for.

Well since you can't be arsed to actually use the Constitution to get your answers instead of talking about what you "know" is in it, I'll do it for you.

Third Amendment to the United States Constitution

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.[5]

This is all that is mentioned in the Constitution regarding troop deployments domestically.

Freedom of press, movement, gathering, arming, redress of grievances, search and seizure, occupation by soldiers, all lost once troops arrive.

Except this isn't martial law. It's a training exercise.

a reply to: intrptr

You're going to need it. It's why we have a NORTHCOM and a SOCNORTH, partially, anyway.

Go look at their mission objectives. Why do they exist, and how do they fit 'posse comitatus'?

a reply to: Bedlam
I have only found RAVEN to be a special ops group that has not operated on US soil. It began as support in Vietnam ans Laos. There is no specific Operation Raven I can find.

a reply to: reldra
The military doesn't care about conspiracy theories and never do they want press involved in their exercises. Nothing unusual here.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: Bedlam
I have only found RAVEN to be a special ops group that has not operated on US soil. It began as support in Vietnam ans Laos. There is no specific Operation Raven I can find.

See how well it works? If they want to keep it quiet, quiet it stays.

It was run in the Gulf Coast region. In the same place WHINSEC/SOTA does theirs. Heck, Camp Shelby is often host to these sorts of things, directly or indirectly, and will play a big part in the upcoming JH15 in the area as well.

originally posted by: Bedlam
a reply to: intrptr

You're going to need it. It's why we have a NORTHCOM and a SOCNORTH, partially, anyway.

Go look at their mission objectives. Why do they exist, and how do they fit 'posse comitatus'?

Thanks teacher, I have enough "home" work. I already understand the slippery slope. I've been watching the constitution "slide" off the page my whole life.