The ethical case for eating shellfish

This is for all you carnivores out there, who enjoy eating red meat and poultry. Now, I know that if you live off the land or if your a hunter then you're use to butchering animals, but here atleast in the united states we have factory farms that mass produce pork, beef, and chicken. Did you ever think about the suffering and butchering of the animal? Plucking feathers, ripping out guts, chopping off heads, ripping skin off of their corpses Etc.
Juxtapose this against eating things like mussels and oysters, which are not motile creatures, and do not suffer at all. The simple fact that you can pull an oyster out of the sea, shuck and eat it, is testament to how natural it is for us humans to eat them. Same goes for mussels.
In fact, mussels are only edible when alive, and they *do not* suffer, as well as being concentrated with various minerals like Zinc and Iron.

Eating the odd parts of a creature such as claw meat, leg meat or the tail in the case of crab and lobster, is slightly less humane.

Also, eating mollusks such as, (clams, scallops, oysters, and mussels), is probably the best way for a vegan to delve into the world of eating animal products without the guilt.

Maybe it is time to start creating synthetic foods.

a reply to: Mousygretchen

I am sorry, but a big fat lobster tail, sitting next to a bloody steak lightly seared on both sides, swimming in butter makes me smile. Vegans need to stick with carrots and Celery. More real food for me.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
Maybe it is time to start creating synthetic foods.

We already create plenty of synthetic foods?

As to shellfish I cannot imagine any vegans eating anything that has been cooked alive and I know a fair few.

a reply to: Mousygretchen

My first job was a fishmonger .
Never eat any shell fish that has died. Only cook alive ones and to be honest don't eat too much of them because of the high amounts of zinc and iron in them, plus depending on the time of year many can have different bacteria in them which cause you to get poorly.
Always find and trust a decent fishmonger and they will help you out.
Like anything in moderation.

cool thx

a reply to: Mousygretchen

So are you a pescatarian?

I can see the ethical value in that if so?

a reply to: Mousygretchen

BY the time you gut an animal, its dead. If it isn't, then the person doing it is a psychopath.

You don't "rip" the guts. You prepare the pelvis to release the guts, sever the esophagus, anus, and various connective tissue. If the animal is big enough, you only have to get the entry/exit cut, and the weight pulls the rest loose.

Skinning, again, isn't ripping. its carefully cutting. Country folk do this type of stuff. City folk forget we even exist, apparently.

Not that any of this matters. The argument you put forth fell apart with the presumption that shellfish don't feel pain.

a reply to: Mousygretchen

Ethics and morals have nothing to do with food.
Does the lion feel remorse about eating the gazelle?
Does the seagull worry about the mussel it bashes open?

Not likely.

So no, I am not concerned at all about how my food feels.

I'm at Hooters right now eating 5 chickens worth of wings

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Mousygretchen

Ethics and morals have nothing to do with food.
Does the lion feel remorse about eating the gazelle?
Does the seagull worry about the mussel it bashes open?

Not likely.

So no, I am not concerned at all about how my food feels.

I'm at Hooters right now eating 5 chickens worth of wings

I disagree in that your chicken wings were more than likley bred in awful conditions and pumped full of chemicals in order for you to have a cheap meal and leave profit for a large corperation.

Meat and ethics are very much an issue but have a good one.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Mousygretchen

BY the time you gut an animal, its dead. If it isn't, then the person doing it is a psychopath.

You don't "rip" the guts. You prepare the pelvis to release the guts, sever the esophagus, anus, and various connective tissue. If the animal is big enough, you only have to get the entry/exit cut, and the weight pulls the rest loose.

Skinning, again, isn't ripping. its carefully cutting. Country folk do this type of stuff. City folk forget we even exist, apparently.

Not that any of this matters. The argument you put forth fell apart with the presumption that shellfish don't feel pain.

As a chef for many years I was always mocked for appologising to any live shellfish before I popped them in the pan.

"sorry guys, it's called the food chain"

Ridiculed every time but I still had to say it.

It's the same with animals, I always have to say a quiet sorry.

a reply to: nonspecific

This.

My thoughts on vegetarianism vs meat eating are so torn and convoluted.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: nonspecific

This.

My thoughts on vegetarianism vs meat eating are so torn and convoluted.

I would rather eat good vegatarian food over bad unetthical meat and I do.

There is in my mind simply no excuse to eat factory farmed meat.

Even if you take away the ethical reasons behind this it tastes bad and is only produced to generate revenue for large corperations.

I have for some years now argued this with "meat eaters" and I do eat meat by the way.

I simply challenge them to go to the supermarket and buy the ingredients to make a chilli con carne.

I then cook a veggie version using different beans and lentils and then have a taste challenge.

I have not and never will loose unless someone goes out and buys some real quality meat and can cook as well as me and without wishing to sound arrogant that is unlikley.

If they were that good then fair do's but the beef would have to be good.

a reply to: nonspecific

You are living in the wrong part of the world, my friend.

I've had the watery tasting crap people talk about....but i have to actually look for it. We have incredibly good beef here.

im not pescetarian but I enjoy seafood and I want to start eating more legumes AND I just learned the other day that I don't like the taste of parsnips. it kinda makes me a hypocrite. but, my situation is complicated

i totally respect folks who hunt for their food, live by the land and thank you for informing me about butchering an animal, especially for folks who don't live by any water

I don't see how any living thing can't feel pain. Even studies on plants show they feel pain.

a reply to: Mousygretchen

Its a violent process, for sure. The tools used to do it the easiest are the same tools a sicko would use to extract information.

I hunt mostly because its a connection to the human experience. I don'tn get to do it as often as i'd like, though.

originally posted by: Mousygretchen

Juxtapose this against eating things like mussels and oysters, which are not motile creatures, and do not suffer at all. The simple fact that you can pull an oyster out of the sea, shuck and eat it, is testament to how natural it is for us humans to eat them. Same goes for mussels.
In fact, mussels are only edible when alive, and they *do not* suffer, as well as being concentrated with various minerals like Zinc and Iron.

Eating the odd parts of a creature such as claw meat, leg meat or the tail in the case of crab and lobster, is slightly less humane.

Also, eating mollusks such as, (clams, scallops, oysters, and mussels), is probably the best way for a vegan to delve into the world of eating animal products without the guilt.

mussels are only edible when alive

What??What???
www.issc.org...

What? All living creatures have a will to live and if attacked do what they can to survive, they also feel pain.

Crabs, lobsters, shrimp and other crustaceans may experience the world more like us than we realize, though, with pain being a feeling that we all seem to share.

Ultimately, we are up against the problem of consciousness. Like all subjective experience, pain remains private to each individual, leaving us only with educated guesses. But both Elwood and Crook have changed how they treat the invertebrates in their labs. They now use as few animals as possible and keep the potential for suffering to a minimum. And they are pushing others to do the same.

There are signs of change, too: Cephalopods at least now get some protection, in some parts of the world. “We are broadening our understanding of both pain and nociception,” Crook says. “How can this not be interesting, even to the skeptics?”

www.washingtonpost.com... 9e59-11e3-b8d8-94577ff66b28_story.html

You sound like someone trying to sooth their own conscience in order to have what they really want.

lol! well. thanks for correcting me I guess. -.- but i swear i read an article on it

sentientist.org... oysters-and-mussels/

originally posted by: Night Star
I don't see how any living thing can't feel pain. Even studies on plants show they feel pain.

Anyone that has dropped a live crab into a pan of boiling water will agree with you there.

Not painless or pleasant.