UK news F-35 fighter makers leap to its defence after it loses dogfight to 1970s jet

a reply to: Zaphod58

Hey zaph I have a feeling that there are a few pieces to the f35 puzzle that the public doesn't know about and if they did they would go, oh I get it no wonder she won't need to dog fight.

I also have a feeling that the f35 will mark the beginning of a radically different game plan when it comes to battle air space superiority. (I just made that term up, whoohoo) And the bad guys will be struggling for a while figuring out how to adapt to the new tactical methodology of the usaf and her allies. I look at it like when aviation went from having no radar to the advent of radar and how that drastically changed all military aviation. Something along that caliber of change is what will be brought in with what the f35 is a part of, a piece, of a new strategy.

As for the UK. I doubt they are "in" on some of the f35s secrets and what this new paradigm in aviation combat will be and arent also secretly developing accessories and assets to exploit this new doctrine. Of course they are. Since when has BAE been a slouch, and arent they pretty chummy with boeing, Lockheed and northrup these days?

a reply to: crazyewok

I get that, but that is the world we live in today. Globalism at it's finest. In order to survive you need to have allies, and the UK/US are each other's biggest allies.

If it came down to a situation where the US did not have your back, the F35 is fully capable of wiping out aircraft with better maneuverability before they even become a threat.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

BAE systems builds a huge portion of the F-35, including pretty much the entire aft fuselage, the fuel system, crew escape and life support systems, PHM integration, and UK carrier integration, as well as bringing Harrier expertise to the B model.

I think the impending obsolescence and retirement of the Typhoon is being greatly exaggerated. Also, the RAF (MoD) will never sanction a single-type fast jet force due to the vulnerability this leaves regarding potential technical issues, type groundings etc. IIRC retirement of the Typhoon is planned for 2040, and who knows what will appear over the next 25 years.

a reply to: waynos

I dunno I get the impression the airframes will be kaput by 2030 whether the RAF want to extend there life or not.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: buddah6

The T-50 was just cut to one squadron for the first buy.

Wasn't there some mechanical problems with the T-50? Didn't India just drop it from consideration for the IAF.

a reply to: buddah6

India slashed their order down to like 154. They've had a few problems in development, mostly engine related. The production engine won't enter service until 2020, so they're having to use the AL-31F as a temporary engine, and it's kind of bit them in the butt more than a few times. There was a very public flameout during takeoff for an airshow, as well as a significant fire during testing.

There's a lot of controversy over the FGFA. India wants two seat aircraft, but will take single seaters, and wants 40 changes to the aircraft made. There is talk it may not ever make it into production.

a reply to: crazyewok

For A2A, #1 is F-22 and #2 is Eurofighter.

If you need energy/momentum/turn based air superiority, the EF with the Meteor missile is great and the UK has them.

The F35 looks a bit stodgy but is quite a nice looker, the F22 is really cool to viw. The Eurofighter looks wrong, don't know why, it just does. The Rafale is quite cute. All those things from China/Pakistan look completely crap. Just bad bad bad to the eye. Best looker has to go to Sukhoi with the SU35, it is the most beautiful bird.

We already have enough toys in our arsenal that we don't really need anything that expensive that we can't already do with what we have, I think the F22 raptor should be able to cover any problems that might arise. And maybe the US does want all of our allies to rely on the ASAP and the US Navy.

a reply to: JHumm

The F-22 might be able to drop a few SDBs, but can't do over 90% of what the F-35 will be able to do, just as the F-35 can't do over 90% of what the F-22 can do. They're designed for totally different missions.

a reply to: Greathouse

BECAUSE 1 WWII pilot bucked the system to do so.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: JHumm

The F-22 might be able to drop a few SDBs, but can't do over 90% of what the F-35 will be able to do, just as the F-35 can't do over 90% of what the F-22 can do. They're designed for totally different missions.

You see thats may problem right there.

RAF are can only do the 90% the F-35 can do

Well at least after 2030.

a reply to: crazyewok

And again, do you really think that aircraft #2 is going to be anywhere close to aircraft #150? AF-02 has been specialized for envelope work, is several hundred pounds heavier at minimum, doesn't have the sensors, helmet system, or several other things that production aircraft come equipped with, as well as older software.

So panicking because an early model aircraft, not specialized for combat, got beat by an aircraft designed to be one of the premier fighters built, just doesn't make sense.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: crazyewok

And again, do you really think that aircraft #2 is going to be anywhere close to aircraft #150? AF-02 has been specialized for envelope work, is several hundred pounds heavier at minimum, doesn't have the sensors, helmet system, or several other things that production aircraft come equipped with, as well as older software.

So panicking because an early model aircraft, not specialized for combat, got beat by an aircraft designed to be one of the premier fighters built, just doesn't make sense.

From all the follow up I have read what you say is true. The F-35 was basically sent out with the proverbial one arm tied behind it's back.

Also some of the disparaging remarks coming from other countries might be due to their desire to have their own bigger better piece of the pie, as in developing something in house which is always a possibility.

Wonder if Israel will receive any F-35s ? I would be interested in hearing what they would think of the bird..

a reply to: 727Sky

IAI began delivering wings in May of this year. They reached an agreement in principle for LRIP-8, which includes 43 F-35I Adir, delivery to start in 2016. They're looking at a second tranche of 25 aircraft to start delivering in 2019. They also have a cost plus incentive contract with LM for updates to the ALIS system, to be complete by 2017.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Thanks for that info

a reply to: 727Sky

The I promises to be interesting. They're going to put IAI EW systems in them, as well as a few other sensors. There was a huge battle over them, because, just as with everyone else, the US will not release the source code to them. They all have to go through LM for any changes to it.

When we delivered the first Typhoon to the RAF the expansion envelope hadn't been completed. It's a progressive task, the initial aircraft were trainers, twin seat practically flying in reversionary mode to both meet a contract and allow the RAF to start training.

By the time the next software release was done, the a development aircraft expanded the envelope and those twin seat trainers got more manourverable, and this went on.

When sidewinder were fitted the envelopes were decreased until the could confirm a 9g turn with a aim9e on the wingtip wouldn't cause some erratic flight response, one the development aircraft (flown by test pilots) did that, the software release packs are delivered and the RAF aircraft get that capability.

It's what happend when you are developing block upgrades.

If you wanted to wait until a development aircraft had tested 100% of the final config you would be years off flying these things.

Typhoon did not get full combat release a long time after they were in service and then even longer still they couldn't drop a bomb years after we had stood up our air defence.

They still have no Meteor, Brimstone, Storm Shadow and I don't think AESA Yet.

10 years after they have been in service.

We could have done it sooner had we had twice as many development aircraft but we are poor. The US isn't so partnering with them I would imaging we will smash through the development but bear in Ming it's not in service yet, and those early service aircraft will probably be in training squadrons for another year(s), that flight envelope will be pushing its limits and the software will be unlocked to its maximum potential for the configuration of that first combat ready JSF squad and it will be massively different to A-02!,

Let's all calm down and have a cup of tea whilst she continues to growl!

Oh. And someone mentioned small arms fire guns and CAS, cas doesn't mean the aircraft is close, it means the bombs are dropping close, with the right package in an F35 you can drop SDB 2 closer to danger close probably safer and more accurately 20,000ft in an F35 than you can droppin MK82 from 100 ft in an A-10.

a reply to: Forensick

Hell, they use B-1s and B-52s for CAS now.