OK Supreme Court: Ten Commandments Monument Must Be Removed From Capitol

originally posted by: Kromlech
Wonder why all of a sudden they decide to get all PC about the monument. Quite the trend now.

You call it being PC, but in reality that's not a bad term, you're basically admitting that it's the opinion of society - which is the opinion to follow in a democracy.

Political Correctness = Opinion of the wider society.

Like it or not (and I know people hate it) there should be a separation of Church and State. No religious group should be aligned with any government in a free and open democratic society. We are now catching up with this principle thanks to the outdated and ignorant views of many of the religious pushing people away.

The public is rejecting draconian religious nonsense across our countries, and they are now accepting and supporting the notion that governments need to separate themselves from religion entirely.

It's about damn time.

There is no place for any recognized religion in a government supposedly representing all people. You cannot have a proper functioning government preaching one religious doctrine while the people are a varied collection of all faiths and none.

And as for those claiming this is unfair, persecution, or some other such nonsense - this has absolutely NO IMPACT on your rights to practice your religion. You are not affected in any way by this decision. You are not hindered, prevented, threatened or treated unfairly in ANY respect.

a reply to: Kromlech

This has been an issue for a while. Did you honestly think that the OK Supreme Court just picked this up yesterday?

Here are three previous controversies about this monument (they were all discussed here on ATS btw)
Failure of Oklahoma Ten Commandments lawsuit a victory for legal sanity 3-17-15

Ten Commandments monument to remain on Capitol grounds, Oklahoma County judge rules 9-19-14

ACLU CHALLENGES OKLAHOMA STATE CAPITOL TEN COMMANDMENTS MONUMENT 8-20-13

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I have written plenty about my opinions on Christianity but it is the basis of American laws

I seem to hear this claim alot. Can you give us an example of american law that is based on christianity? Anything in the constitution that can be linked back to the bible? Does the bible grant 2nd amendment rights?

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
Does the bible grant 2nd amendment rights?

Any country adopting a Mosaic-style system of law would look more like a Sharia-devastated hell hole than a tolerant, secular Republic.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth

It isn't enforcing belief in anything. There are plenty of things that could be removed from American societies under such rules, like advertising, tv shows, statues.

Private companies are not ELECTED to represent the people in law and governance.
You do understand that a private company making computers is not a democratically elected body making laws, right?
Advertising is a completely different thing to a government endorsing (or seeming to endorse) a specific set of religious beliefs in a democratic society.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Silly PC nonsense, it will bite them back. I have written plenty about my opinions on Christianity but it is the basis of American laws, and America is a Christian nation.

You're wrong.
America is NOT a Christian nation, it is a democratic nation where the separation of Church and state should be a primary ambition. You are a multicultural and multi-faith society and no government within that should be promoting any religious ideology while claiming to represent all of the public.

Removal of this has absolutely no impact on any Christian at all. If you want to claim otherwise, please list the ways separation of Church and state supposedly harms anyone.

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: Kromlech

Overall the commandments are a pretty good set of rules to live ones life by . Perhaps they should just re name it , 10 very good ideas .

Four of the Ten Commandments are about obeying God. I'm pretty sure those four commandments are pretty much irrelevant to anyone that isn't a Christian. So no, let's not do your suggestion.

Ten Commandments

Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour
Thou shalt not covet (neighbor's anything)

Before the Supreme Court rules on any display of the Ten Commandments, they'd have to chisel them off their own building first.



Hysterical liberals are entertaining.

originally posted by: Seamrog

Before the Supreme Court rules on any display of the Ten Commandments, they'd have to chisel them off their own building first
.

Poor analogy. They are on the Supreme Court but so are representations of every other major religion and historical law giver.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

America is absolutely not a Christian nation.

Even if the legislature in Oklahoma wants to believe it so.

From the Treaty of Tripoli, enacted just 20 years after independance:

"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

Right from the mouths of our founders.

Yes that is in the Treaty of Tripoli. Historians, both religious and secular, and the document itself state that the Treaty is speaking about the Government not the culture

originally posted by: Kromlech

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Kromlech

It isn't enforcing belief in anything. There are plenty of things that could be removed from American societies under such rules, like advertising, tv shows, statues.

Silly PC nonsense, it will bite them back. I have written plenty about my opinions on Christianity but it is the basis of American laws, and America is a Christian nation.

America is not a Christian nation, never has been. There is good info on that in an installment of NLBS.

The majority of the religious in this country are Christian, and according to statistics, most Americans identify as Christian. I don't see a mosque on practically every street corner in America, you see churches -- which speaks for itself.

This is irrelevant. The Constitution of the United States is clear on the matter.

First Amendment to the United States Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[1]

Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.[3]

QED

This was a good decision by the OK Supreme Court. It would only be a matter of time before it went to the US Supreme Court anyways, and they'd overturn it.

originally posted by: Seamrog
Before the Supreme Court rules on any display of the Ten Commandments, they'd have to chisel them off their own building first.



Hysterical liberals are entertaining.

Says the guy who didn't read the OP. The Oklahoma Supreme Court made this decision.

a reply to: TheSemiSkeptic

A rather astute observation that has nothing at all to do with either the topic, or the post you are quoting.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Says the guy who didn't read the OP. The Oklahoma Supreme Court made this decision.

I think he was referring to the United States Supreme Court, but that has plenty of non-Christian iconography adorning the interior and exterior.

Including Mohammed.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Kromlech

More than 70% of Americans identify as Christians.

Doesn't matter, you live in a democratic society, not a religious dictatorship.
The people elect a government to represent them - and that means EVERYONE, not just the Christians.

And, I hate to be the one to break this to you, but Christianity is collapsing across the US, and that rejection of faith is accelerating according to data. Society is rejecting mumbo-jumbo at an amazing rate, and that's only going to continue until being a Christian is no more relevant than being a $cientologist.

It really comes down to this - you either put up a monument to every single faith and show that you represent all of your electorate, or you remove all religious symbols from government. There is no in-between.

That's not being PC, that's just being a good elected government representing all of your citizens.

But again, this has absolutely no impact at all on any Christian anyway, they just love to play the victim card and make out they're being "persecuted" for their beliefs.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I know what he was referring to. That's why I called him out on it, because the US Supreme Court didn't make the decision. So the hypocrisy he was trying to be derisive about didn't occur.

originally posted by: Seamrog
Before the Supreme Court rules on any display of the Ten Commandments, they'd have to chisel them off their own building first.



Hysterical liberals are entertaining.

Historically relevant architecture versus an affront to a varied society demanding unbiased representation...

Hysterical Conservatives are wonderful

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I know what he was referring to. That's why I called him out on it, because the US Supreme Court didn't make the decision. So the hypocrisy he was trying to be derisive about didn't occur.

Ah, gotcha. Either way, silly argument.

It really comes down to this - you either put up a monument to every single faith and show that you represent all of your electorate, or you remove all religious symbols from government. There is no in-between.

There it is. But then people would also fight over that bit of equality.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus


Either way, silly argument.

Nope - totally relevant point.

A societal segment that is attempting to scrub any trace of religion from the public square that turns to a tyrannical court to run roughshod over the states totally misses the point that even the court, in its tyranny, recognizes and acknowledges the religious foundations of the laws it chooses to distort for political whims.

Sorry you missed it.

a reply to: Seamrog

There is nothing to miss, either all are there or none are there.

Simple point that obviosuly circumvented your thought process.