Greece crisis: The blueprint for future economy control

Hi

With such economic instability around the world it is understandable the uprising of those who have been worst hit. However the greece crisis appears to be taking a different tactic towards the future of maintaining the European union.
With talks failing throughout the last few weeks we have ended at no compromise acceptable by both parties. Therefore the Greek government have called a referendum on whether to accept the terms. Since that announcement we have seen both the yes and no rallies. The media here in the UK are painting a very strong yes show of strength. There have been many strong quotes and speeches trying to gain the yes to the terms.
This is interesting as it is using much of the intelligence it has gather on the public. Knowing how easy it is to manipulate and scare the mass the result of the referendum will see a yes vote to agree to accepting the terms. This tactic will be seen throughout Europe in the coming years. This apparent show of democracy will lead the public to believe they have a real say on the financial restrictions imposed upon them. However like what is happening in Greece we are seeing the propoganda machine going into overdrive pushing the fear upon the people of greece. Furthermore this could more theatricals with a basic rig of the ballot box (as we see everywhere around the world).
Eitherway I cannot see greece voting no and to the possible break away from Europe. I would love them to be the first to rise past these shackles and inspire other nations to fight back against the crinimals of the financial elite.

a reply to: liteonit6969

I think you provided an accurate and easy-to-understand summary of the current situation with Greece.

Whether or not the public truly feels "Yes" is the right answer, the mainstream media will present it as though it is the overwhelming attitude so as to minimize opposition

The banking cartel won't stop until they suck every one of the 99%'s wealth right out from under their feet, then they will exchange crumbs and scraps for cheap labor so we build their luxurious getaways for them at nearly no cost to them I hope things can turn around, like in Iceland. I think that even small groups/countries that defy this pattern will prove to be a huge problem for the financial elite

Well said OP.

Overall the whole thing has just been a test run for future projects. Seems to be quite a few warning of an impending a global crash not limited to just the US. Maybe they are onto something.

With respect, the OP has not got any grasp of the situation in Greece at all.

Can I ask how you three would solve the problem? In summary, Greece has an enormous budget deficit, policies that not only add to this, but reinforces it and all-but encourages fraud, deception and corruption, with which this government, and all previous governments for decades have done nothing to correct.

They have accepted loans totalling over three hundred and twenty BILLION Euros with the promise of reducing their deficit and yet have done virtually nothing. Now Europe is refusing to fund them any longer unless they make changes to their policies.

So where is the conspiracy?

Well Greece told the IMF to Pi$$ off today and the IMF has put their account in " Arrears " as to avoid using the word default which would likely send bond and stock markets around the world into an uncontrolled panic and possible freefall...What options does Greece have at this point...I'm sure " talks " will continue with the people eventually getting the shaft in the end...The young there are already broke and unemployed with no good potential future prospects other than serfdom and the old just want to make a deal to save their pensions and transition to retirement/death....

So the only way Greece is getting out of this is becoming someones prison B!tch (Russia and Turkey have made offers), or making a deal with the ultra evil IMF...They have no good options....or can they can leave the EU and maybe start printing their own PM backed currency...only options I see for them...I would however start paying attention to this situation because its going to be everyones situation in the not too distant future....Controlled Collpase is a coming!!! Its all a setup and show...Problem-->reaction--->solution Hegalian Dialect

a reply to: 321Go

Unfortunately you are on the wrong site if you expect this line of argument to hold. Welcome to ATS, where a significant minority hold the attitude that:

The underdog is always right
"Sticking it to the man" is always right
It is OK to default on your debts, so long as the person lending you the money is richer than you

You only have to read the other posts in this thread to see what you are up against.

Well said lacrimonious!

2nd line

originally posted by: lacrimoniousfinale
a reply to: 321Go

Unfortunately you are on the wrong site if you expect this line of argument to hold. Welcome to ATS, where a significant minority hold the attitude that:

The underdog is always right
"Sticking it to the man" is always right
It is OK to default on your debts, so long as the person lending you the money is richer than you

You only have to read the other posts in this thread to see what you are up against.

That's great, I'm British so I have a natural love of the underdog. If they had a valid argument I would be right behind them cheering them on. But they don't. You're creating a conspiracy from NOTHING. Spreading and reinforcing untruths and hearsay to a mass audience is stupid and ignorant – they very things you are accusing of others.

The banking and credit institutions of Europe, and to a limited extent the wider world, have bent over backwards to help Greece's successive governments balance their State finances, but they have done virtually nothing to address the issues that are crippling them. It has to stop at some point, and that point is now. Syriza promised its people that it would change its tax, anti-corruption and retirement policies to help end the austerity regime, but it has proved to be just as witless as the previous governments.

Whether it leaves the Euro or not, it has to address these issues. Perhaps the best thing for it would be to leave the Euro so it can devalue its currency, build an industrial base and start exporting, with a view to rejoining at a later time. They have some skilled engineers, and with a competitive currency they can rival China for prices, which would make it a much more advantageous trading partner.

Cheer them on by all means, but you're cheering for a fool at the moment, and by default that makes you look like one.

originally posted by: wyrmboy12
Well Greece told the IMF to Pi$$ off today

That is exactly the opposite to what happened. You're living a fantasy.

Greece will exit the Euro, unfortunately Russia will seize this opportunity and pump investment into the Greek economy with strings attached. It will then have influence in European matters far greater than it could ever have wished for.

Sadly Europe in the eyes of the Greeks once s does hit the fan and smothers every citizen to the point where they feel like they are drowning, will be one of a controlling enemy of their State, they will see Russia as their saviours.

Other European Countries crippled by large debts will start being more demanding over debt repayments.

a reply to: wyrmboy12

nice post...

my only disagreement is this item:

...or can they can leave the EU and maybe start printing their own PM backed currency...

the Greeks nor anyone else on the planet can accumulate the mega Trillions of PM value-wealth needed to support an Sovereign economy, let alone a PM backed, reserve currency recognized by the whole global marketplace.

the bigger 'pie' would be the combined natural resources and physical assets which lie unmined or unrealized within the territory of that Nation State...
the Greeks have Mediterranian waterfront properties and islands galore, an un-developed resource worth Trillions of €'s
put into the proper hands (the mega banks/financiers) the Greek natural resource could be a pristine, waterfront vacationland like a model environment in the vein of Disneyworld... of course the indigent Greeks would be the labor force to man the infrastructure for this vision of a Paradise of a thousand island villages

Greece has no industry or PM operations of any significance... all it can hope to be is a 'destination' for relaxation to the elites of the international mega-corporations and the political planners
the individual with rights and aspirations is a derelict model... the collective is the new world paradigm and a form of 'carbon, or life Credits' based on the exploitation of natural resources will be the only way around the 'debt' model economies that are in a (finally realized) death spiral

originally posted by: 321Go
With respect, the OP has not got any grasp of the situation in Greece at all.

Can I ask how you three would solve the problem? In summary, Greece has an enormous budget deficit, policies that not only add to this, but reinforces it and all-but encourages fraud, deception and corruption, with which this government, and all previous governments for decades have done nothing to correct.

They have accepted loans totalling over three hundred and twenty BILLION Euros with the promise of reducing their deficit and yet have done virtually nothing. Now Europe is refusing to fund them any longer unless they make changes to their policies.

So where is the conspiracy?

I so agree with you 321Go. People try to see a conspiracy where there is none. Not many know the situation in Greece and how did this country end up with such a huge debt. I've been to Greece many times and I have lots of friends there. Until the moment the debt issue came to surface, no one had any idea of what was going on. For decades greek people have lived a nice life, paying little to no taxes at all, get paid excessively by the government, receiving a 13 and even a 14 pay as bonus (for doing nothing), paid vacations (a month)... On top of that this country has (had) the most inflated bureaucratic system I ever seen in my life. So many government positions who did nothing but milk the system and the budget. And lets not forget something even more crucial in a capitalistic system, this country produces nothing of importance. Their main income was and still is tourism. They don't have a heavy industry, mining or oil. All they have is some very light industry like manufacturing and the rest is olives, cheese and olive oil. And yet this people lived like kings, never paid taxes, relied a lot on government subsidies, exaggerated salaries, abuses with public funding and a total lack of respect for the economical system.

At this point I ask, why should Greece be treated any different from other countries who got loans? Whose fault it is that this country finds it self in over 300 billion euros in debts? They have been milking Europe for decades and living at the other europian countries expenses for decades. And now they say we don't pay because we have no money and people can't take anymore measures (the result of this very people abusing the system, stealing in unpaid taxes and avoiding obligations that keep a country's economy healthy). This is criminal, not what EU is trying to do. I do feel sorry for the people in Greece and I can imagine what kind of hardship they're going through. But blaming Europe and especially Germany for what is clearly a fault of a parasitic government and most of all of a parasitic mentality, is not the solution.

originally posted by: ProleUK
unfortunately Russia will seize this opportunity and pump investment into the Greek economy with strings attached. It will then have influence in European matters far greater than it could ever have wished for.

They already are:

Russia willing to consider loans for Greece

ST. PETERSBURG, Russia (AP) -- Russia is willing to consider giving financial aid to Greece, a Russian government official said Friday ahead of talks between the leaders of the two countries.

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras traveled to Russia as his country struggles to reach a deal with its creditors for new loans it needs to avoid defaulting on debt payments at the end of the month. Without the bailout, Greece could be headed for bankruptcy or an exit from the euro.

Tsipras's visit has given rise to speculation that the Greeks may be seeking Russian loans. He meets with Russian President Vladimir Putin later Friday.

"We will support any decision (on the Greek debt crisis) that is proposed by Greece and our European partners," Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich said in an interview on RT television, the Tass news agency reported.

uk.finance.yahoo.com...

a reply to: Telos

Yeah, it's all in negotiation at the moment but what an investment for Russia if they do assist Greece. Putin would have a puppet in Europe to play games with. Imagine a military base there as part of a deal, just to throw the cat in amongst the pigeons. Putin will be buying popcorn for that one.

a reply to: 321Go

Blimey. My post clearly didn't communicate what I was thinking. I am in total agreement with you about Greece. The point I was trying to make (not too well, obviously) is that there are many people on this site (as evidenced in the first few responses, as well as elsewhere) who would disagree with you. People who see the whole thing as a conspiracy. People who think it is OK to default on their debts. I don't, but there are many on here who do.

The Greek people are anarchic and difficult to tame. For this reason we must strike deep into their cultural roots: perhaps then we can force them to conform. I mean, of course, to strike at their language, their religion, their cultural and historical reserves, so that we can neutralize their ability to develop, to distinguish themselves, or to prevail; thereby removing them as an obstacle to our strategically vital plans in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East.

-Henry Kissinger, Washington, Sept. 1974