Memphis mayor wants to dig up Confederate General (and his wife!)

Desecrating a grave will not change anything because they have filled their hearts with hate instead of love and forgiveness. This hate will consume them and they will become what they despise the most. A racists.

originally posted by: muse7
Conservatives seem to be a very un-american bunch.

From being infatuated with Putin to being infatuated with the Confederacy and Confederate generals.

And add Lincoln among the worse Presidents this country has ever had. I suppose you believe the Civil War was fought over slavery.

originally posted by: sean
Desecrating a grave will not change anything because they have filled their hearts with hate instead of love and forgiveness. This hate will consume them and they will become what they despise the most. A racists.

Indeed. Sensible , level headed people put this whole topic to bed. Forest life is very much worthy of discussion in the same way another later commander in Military Erwin Rommel has not gone unnoticed. Both men showed shades of brilliance while being on the wrong side of history because of the government's they served.

I hate to see this "demonizing" and "monster making" of historic figures. It feels if we turn them into a monster, we can hate them, but if they have human qualities it reminds us, and rightly so, that anybody can become that which they hate, if they have a good reason.

For a loosely related example, Anakin skywalker became the most feared sith in the galaxy for love, and to bring peace. "History" painted him as a monster.

Forest was a brilliant tactician, a fair slave owner(some of those guys beat, raped, murdered their slaves). the fact that he changed, shows the type of person he was. During that time, slavery was considered normal. Washington had slaves, Jefferson had slaves, slept with them, and apparently fathered children with them, most people during that time did(North and South). The fact that he did change, and employed them and paid them good wages after reconstruction(which is a horror tale unto itself) shows his potential.

Based on the actions of our government over its history, I don't think they are really in the position to pick and choose historic villains.

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul

originally posted by: Noromyxo
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Not to derail your thread, but I would like to say this about the whole Confederacy issue:
"Every confederate leader, every confederate general, every confederate soldier who fought and died
were all AMERICANS !!!
Why do we seem to forget this?
Were they dishonorable ? We're they imprisoned as criminals after the war was over ?
Did they cease to be Americans ?
Are we to just try to deny that they ever existed ?
This is just another idiotic episode of political correctness.
Pathetic.
Noro

You also should not deny that they did not consider themselves as Americans (ide citizens of the USA), tried to slit up the Union by force of arms and were anti the constitution.

Both of you are wrong in some respects. No one considered themselves "American" in those days. They considered themselves New Yorkers or Georgians, or Ohioans and Alabamans. People identified themselves as citizens of their state and their state was a member of the US. That's because that's the way the founders designed it. The Civil war was the death of the original foundation. That's why the statement that they were anti constitutional is flat out wrong. The Confederacy was holding on to the Constitution. They were fighting to retain the constitutional order that had been established. The Union was anti constitution.

ON forest, while it is generally sited that he was the founder of the KKK that is categorically not true. He was not present during the foundation of the Klan. While he did join the Klan in its early stages at that time it was not the "racist" vast political organization that it grew into in the early 1900's. The Klan began as a fraternal order for former confederate soldiers. When the Klan took a more political direction and began to resist reconstruction and oppose Black voting rights Forest left it.
Just a note on the Klan. At its height in the 1920's the Klan saw its largest membership in Illinois. Not in the South.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: Asktheanimals

People in hell want ice water...

That may be true but it seems ignorance is a more pressing issue than thirst at the moment.
The reaction to the Charleston shooting has gone way beyond any rational bounds.

This is typical of the Left -- they whip up hysteria among their minions who follow blindly. There's nothing rational about the anti-Confederate hysteria.

More divide & distract.

originally posted by: seagull
He's dead and gone to what ever awaited him.

What point to this stupidity? Score some sick political points?

Exactly.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: seagull

His life is a fascinating read.
Its like some larger-than-life movie script of rags to riches, slave trader to slave hater.
I'm surprised he's never been portrayed in any movie, ever, possibly excepting Birth of a Nation.

That's probably why most of us have never heard of him. The NAACP stage protests whenever "The Birth of a Nation" is shown in an actual theatre.

a reply to: AuranVector

As they should frankly.

I've seen it...and whoa.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: AuranVector

As they should frankly.

I've seen it...and whoa.

I've never seen it. Is it that bad?

a reply to: AuranVector

Speaking of the NAACP there was another Black organization called the Pole Bearer's Association that invited Forrest to give a speech. He was mocked by many Whites for doing so and his speech invited Blacks to participate in all areas of American society. A Black woman gave Forrest a bouquet of flowers for which he thanked and then kissed her on the cheek - yet something else many Whites of the time found offensive.

The man was fearless in whatever cause he took up and he never backed down. It was due to his leadership in civil rights that many other Whites decided it was time to change as well. I do view him as a personal hero, oftentimes here there are stances that seem very unpopular but remembering what he and others went through helps me to stick with what I feel is right. Popularity is not righteousness and often it is unwelcome but it is usually the thing that needs to be remembered most.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I don't know if I'd go so far as to call him a personal hero...

But he is worthy of respect.

a reply to: AuranVector

The portrayal of Blacks is beyond reprehensible.

There are copies of it on you tube. I won't link 'em because they'd get me banned. Portions of it are beyond ugly.

It's a movie that won Oscars. Woodrow Wilson had it screened in the White House and is reported to have loved it. That tells you all you need to know about racial issues in the United States during that period. Not all Americans, of course, but enough. It was the heyday of the KKK. Thousands strong, all over the US.

a reply to: seagull

Don't worry about Birth of a Nation,
Hollywood made their movie to balance the other end out.
Django unchained.
Watched it the other night and the stereotyping is beyond ridiculous.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Didn't much care for that one, either. Walked out on it, in fact. I'm sure there were murmurs in the crowd at that. Not that I give a flyin'...

But, yeah, it tends to balance out. Which tells us, the truth of the matter is somewhere between, which most of us know.

I'll still say that Birth of a nation was worse...

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: Asktheanimals

One of the greatest ironies in American history was that the Ku Klux Klan was founded by a white man who cared about blacks.

And he was referenced in Forrest Gump and Tom Hanks played him briefly.

He didn't found the KKK, he was elected its leader, and only a year later he ordered the KKK disbanded.

It reformed 35years later, and today many people only know of him from the incorrect reference in Forrest Gump.

The true story of Nathan Bedford Forest is inspiring to say the least.

This is a pretty good summary:

www.pbs.org...

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: AuranVector

Speaking of the NAACP there was another Black organization called the Pole Bearer's Association that invited Forrest to give a speech. He was mocked by many Whites for doing so and his speech invited Blacks to participate in all areas of American society. A Black woman gave Forrest a bouquet of flowers for which he thanked and then kissed her on the cheek - yet something else many Whites of the time found offensive.

The man was fearless in whatever cause he took up and he never backed down. It was due to his leadership in civil rights that many other Whites decided it was time to change as well. I do view him as a personal hero, oftentimes here there are stances that seem very unpopular but remembering what he and others went through helps me to stick with what I feel is right. Popularity is not righteousness and often it is unwelcome but it is usually the thing that needs to be remembered most.

I wonder how many will bear up under the assaults to the traditional way of life. Things are going to get a lot worse.
Bernie Sanders, open socialist, has a good chance of winning the WH in 2016. Just what the Globalists want.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: AuranVector

The portrayal of Blacks is beyond reprehensible.

There are copies of it on you tube. I won't link 'em because they'd get me banned. Portions of it are beyond ugly.

It's a movie that won Oscars. Woodrow Wilson had it screened in the White House and is reported to have loved it. That tells you all you need to know about racial issues in the United States during that period. Not all Americans, of course, but enough. It was the heyday of the KKK. Thousands strong, all over the US.

Now I wonder if I ever want to see it.

Well since many of you are "great Americans"'. He fought a war against the United States and turned his back to our flag. What he was is a traitor. They should have hung him. It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives can blindly bend anything to fit their agenda.

a reply to: AuranVector

Don't let my opinion stop you... It is, beyond my opinion, a piece of cinema history.

I don't like it...but I tend towards extremes in my response to things like that.

So, again, make up your own mind.