Presidents Whom Owned Slaves: 4 Are on Currency

originally posted by: calstorm
As for the OP, how many slaves do you own?slaveryfootprint.org...

According to that link, 56 slaves work for me. With numbers like that, maybe one day I can also become president and get my likeness on a piece of fiat currency. Yay!

originally posted by: caladonea
a reply to: iDope

I think slavery and owning slaves is wrong and I am very upset and sad that slavery even existed. It hurts my heart...I am glad that we have come as far as electing a President who has a mixed ancestry...but we have a long way to go in society.

I was raised in a family where we were taught to accept people ...if they were good people no matter their race.

Firstly, we certainly do have a long way to come if you feel you have to validate your remarks by stating your bona fides before you even begin your true statements. It's a bit like saying "I'm not racist but" or "Really, I have lots of black friends ..." to preface a statement you are a afraid others might view through a racial lens.

It shows that you fear the social perceptions of others.

I think it is awful that previous Presidents have owned slaves; I just don't understand how to them that was normal; and why would America elect such people?

Because those were different times with different social mores and you are making the mistake of judging them with your own modern mores.

They would likely be just as aghast at lots of things you take for granted as perfectly moral today, and you'd be horribly offended to hear them opining about it.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: calstorm
As for the OP, how many slaves do you own?slaveryfootprint.org...

According to that link, 56 slaves work for me. With numbers like that, maybe one day I can also become president and get my likeness on a piece of fiat currency. Yay!

Given the rate at which they are printing currency, maybe you could line up for the trillion dollar bill!

I couldn't agree more! I am sick an tired of glorifying these horrible examples of humanity. And while we are changing these faces on our currency, let's look beyond that to ALL reminders of these horrible men. Every street, park and municipality bearing their names should be updated to better represent our modern progressive culture immediately, lest their influence continue to corrupt young minds. I live in Jefferson county, and every time I drive around town I am constantly reminded of all the horrible atrocities committed by our fore fathers. I always thought it should be named "We stole this land from Native Americans County" because that's what it is. Gawl we are just terrible awful people. Once these names are erased from the annuls of history, I will feel much better. But we can't stop there! Every time I hear my wife's maiden name, "Adams", I am reminded yet again of America's evil past, and so are many others. Therefore, we must force ANYONE bearing the surnames of these tyrants to change it to something more pleasant.

President Lincoln had it right at least, AND he was the one who predicted that America could ONLY be brought down from within, by cultural suicide. Notice how it's being done?

a reply to: smitastrophe

Sure, I guess, for a railroad attorney who advocated for property seizures of hard working land owners to expand the railroads.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Interesting link.


I apparently have 16.
I'll be spare changing for coffee this week so I don't overburden anyone further.
I feel so ashamed.
Seriously. I don't like the term "slave"...I prefer Extended Family Members.
Yes, I'm a total hippie tree-hugger and it's perfectly fine to laugh about it.
I know it catches me off guard a lot of the time as well.


But getting back on Topic:

I can't think of a single culture that didn't have some sort of slavery or indentured servitude or cultural appropriation in place to insure that the greater society and it's needs were being met. Have there been slave owners who abused this premise and treated their workers unjustly? Of course....but that doesn't mean everyone who owned slaves were right out bastards about it.

But History is riddled with one culture enslaving another for varieties of reasons.

The Aztec used to kill the warriors and enslave the youth and the women when they had raiding parties. The Egyptians did more of the same in their own respective way and manners. Just a few examples here that most of us here onsite are already well aware of, but it never hurts to reiterate the obvious.

If we banned everything that had ties with old world slavery, we'd be naked and sitting in the dirt.

Well I look at it this way, if we are going to ban the confederate battle flag then we need to ban the American flag, the confederates just wanted to own people ( which was legal) the U.S. government carried out a systematic plan of genocide (which was illegal) against the native americans. I guess you have to decide is owning people worse than genocide? or are the both equally monstorous?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: iDope
As an introduction to why I am making this thread, it has to revolve around the idea to ban the Confederate Flag, Civil War History, Southern Heritage, etc.

None of this is happening. Banning is not happening. The first amendment is intact.

People who owned slaves when slavery was legal and socially acceptable are not at issue. The confederate flag represents TO SOME a war fought for the right to keep slaves as it was becoming socially unacceptable.

If we live in a free nation, as we are led to believe, why can't anyone fly a flag that resonates with them?

THEY CAN!

I understand that many people through out history owned slaves as it was free labor for the most part. Many didn't resonate with the ideal of owning human beings but it was the prosperous thing to do at the time, I mean what company wouldn't love free labor? But how can we glorify those that did?

They are not glorified FOR OWNING slaves. They are on currency because they were an important part of our history, not because they happened to own slaves when it was legal and considered moral by the society of the time.

How can one argue that the Confederate Flag should be banned, burned, berrated, removed from history etc.

I don't know of ANYONE who is arguing that. If they are, it's just an opinion and not a threat.

You don't know anyone who is banning the Confederate flag? how about Amazon, how about Confederate museums and churches, it's all over the news about places banning the flag, not selling the flag, etc. By removing the flag from market, it is banning the flag. He who owns the flag prior to banishment, and chooses to fly it, wait a few weeks and see the reprocussions for him flying it. I'm telling you straight forward that this is how the 1st amendment gets used in order to control.

If a white person says the N' word on TV what would happen? Kanye West does and what happens? Freedom of speech is degraded and really an illusion to the constructs of modern society. Media propagates hate, and I am merely pointing out that our idolized faces on our currency were slave owners, so why do we allow our money to capitalize on their symbol, and why do we chase the money so much? A symbol for slavery is all it is..

originally posted by: Tardacus
Well I look at it this way, if we are going to ban the confederate battle flag then we need to ban the American flag, the confederates just wanted to own people ( which was legal) the U.S. government carried out a systematic plan of genocide (which was illegal) against the native americans. I guess you have to decide is owning people worse than genocide? or are the both equally monstorous?

This is exactly the point that I am trying to raise. If the Confederate Flag is banned, barred from being sold, or punished if being flown, why wouldn't the American flag, or the Presidents who were profiting off of racist slavery be removed from currency? However, the common 50 star flag was never flown when Americans murdered thousands of Natives, so it is a different symbol, just stands for the same thing.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

They are not glorified FOR OWNING slaves. They are on currency because they were an important part of our history, not because they happened to own slaves when it was legal and considered moral by the society of the time.

No they weren't glorified for owning slaves, but they did own slaves and they are glorified now, and many people know no whys as to why they are. You think that the men on the currency are more important to America over other more representable people? Why wouldn't MLK be on a coin or bill? Why wouldn't Kennedy be on a present currency? There is a reason that our bills show faces of slave owners, because we who work for those bills are slaves to the same owners. So by your reasoning Hitler should be on currency in Germany, because technically his country was more profitable and powerful than ever before under his power, and he is the most recognizable German to ever exist across the world, so should he be a poster child with streets and schools and parks and etc, named after him? Yet he is not gloriied because of attrocities as if it were his and only his idea to do what he did. You think he had no one in power to give him fuel and ideas?

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

I can't think of a single culture that didn't have some sort of slavery or indentured servitude or cultural appropriation in place to insure that the greater society and it's needs were being met. Have there been slave owners who abused this premise and treated their workers unjustly? Of course....but that doesn't mean everyone who owned slaves were right out bastards about it. But History is riddled with one culture enslaving another for varieties of reasons.

Would it be okay for me to own a few slaves today if I fed them and treated them with care, yet I could have sex with them whenever I wanted? It's not unjust, it is a trade off. May they be illegal immigrants searching for a job, and I give them one that ensures them safety and food and shelter, yet they are still my servants; how is that wrong? I ensure that their life is safe as long as I can do whatever sexual acts I may please and have them reproduce to ensure my children also get the same pleasure. Is that not wrong? It is illegal, but it wasn't when these people were President, I just ay want to follow in their footsteps, since they are glorified, and yet I can't because similar actions are illegal today. So why aren;t they punished for it, at least removed from currency? It is a bad symbol to look up to, especially to kids who see the faces of all these dead history lessons on money and want to be rich or follow in their steps.

a reply to: ketsuko

You are certainly entitled to your opinions...but you and I can agree to disagree on most of what you have said in your reply to me.

Let's face it...it was a personal attack on my character...which I do not appreciate at all.

a reply to: iDope

I understand your animosity. Believe me, really, I do. But the sad thing about those slave owner/slave affairs is people automatically assume there was no consent or love between the parties involved. I know that sounds like an apologetic stance but I'm a romantic at heart and part of me has a hard time believing that everyone is a right out bastard just based on inflamed suspicions.

For example, a old friend of mine has a father who has a maid who lives in and cares for a separate property from that of his wife...when he is not in that region she lives there rent free in order to maintain the property. He visits her from time to time when in the area. They have a great relationship. it was suggested that they were "intimate" but no one knew for sure. If it's consensual, where's the harm? Is that considered slavery or a business relationship?

Now this is not touching on the very real, very abhorrent Sex Industry and Trade that festers beneath the underbelly of the Civilized World. Forcing non-willing participants into that sort of servitude is absolutely nauseating to say the least....but it happens. I think modern sex slavery is a much more pressing topic than accusing historical personages of just "wantonly raping their servants as they saw fit" because we have been so deluged with the horrors of the past based purely on word of mouth and speculation, without having been privy to or present during the sexual act itself.

I just don't like immediately jumping to the worst case scenario on everything, but I respect your concerns.....there are very serious modern day abuses that we can't just naively turn a blind eye to with out heads in the sand. When I was doing social work in my twenties, I met a young man who had turned to the life of prostitution after he ran away from an abusive home. He was eight years old. It still breaks my heart that I wasn't able to help him transition out of that lifestyle, but he made it well know it was his decision, his life, and I needed to let him handle his own choices.

I guess what I'm getting at is there is sometimes more to the story than our cultural conditioning allows for.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

It is not any more acceptable to abuse someone just because they don't mind said abuse.

a reply to: Fer1527

Duh.
Never said it was.

The confederate flag will never be banned by law. Certain companies may choose not to sell it, but there will never be an outright ban on it. The spreading of that rumor is pure propaganda or ignorant regurgitation of said rumor.

originally posted by: iDope
I think the idea is absurd and actually had to debate my aunt (delusional since her son killed himself 3 years ago) over Father's Day weekend about why the Confederate Flag should or shouldn't be banned.

Needless to say, I came off as the A-hole to her,

I wonder why.

originally posted by: JeanPaul

originally posted by: iDope
I think the idea is absurd and actually had to debate my aunt (delusional since her son killed himself 3 years ago) over Father's Day weekend about why the Confederate Flag should or shouldn't be banned.

Needless to say, I came off as the A-hole to her,

I wonder why.

Because she thought I was inconsiderate and a pro-slavery sympathizer...When in fact that is not my point at all. People like to jump to conclusions without listening to the facts. I was not even the one that brought up the subject, she did, and I disagreed and she became upset with me and refused to communicate any further, only after all her points were made.

originally posted by: humanityrising
The confederate flag will never be banned by law. Certain companies may choose not to sell it, but there will never be an outright ban on it. The spreading of that rumor is pure propaganda or ignorant regurgitation of said rumor.

You are right, however these companies recieve much criticism from outside groups that wan't it removed, so rather than standing strong and still selling it, it is much easier to just remove it. By doing so it makes it a lot harder for people to by it and support it. Also as you may know, a person who flys the flag outside of their house or wears it on clothing will be seen different by their peers and will likley recieve more hostility now that all this nonsense is taking place. Churches are removing it from stained glass windows, states are choosing not to fly it, confederate gift shops aren't selling confederate memoribillia, thus it is being erased slowly from history.

Who knows in 50-100 years if U.S. is still around the civil war won't even be discussed in history books and the word Confederate will be changed to something else and no where will the flag be shown. Also, even in modern history books, try to find instances in which I mentioned above where Presidents owned slaves. You will not see any mention of them having slaves at all, when in fact multiple Presidents were prolific slave owners at somepoint of their lives, and still appear glorified on currency.

originally posted by: iDope

originally posted by: JeanPaul

originally posted by: iDope
I think the idea is absurd and actually had to debate my aunt (delusional since her son killed himself 3 years ago) over Father's Day weekend about why the Confederate Flag should or shouldn't be banned.

Needless to say, I came off as the A-hole to her,

I wonder why.

Because she thought I was inconsiderate and a pro-slavery sympathizer...When in fact that is not my point at all. People like to jump to conclusions without listening to the facts. I was not even the one that brought up the subject, she did, and I disagreed and she became upset with me and refused to communicate any further, only after all her points were made.

What I'm saying is, if you brought that attitude to the conversation - that you think "she went crazy after her son died", then perhaps your whole approach was tainted with this perspective.

Anyhow, your comparison to that colledge is off base. If the university itself condoned abuse then their flag or logo would in fact be troublesome. If they went to war in order to defend abuse...

You do have a valid overall point though. This nation was in part founded on slavery and we celebrate slave owners year round. If I were black I'd probably feel a tad uncomfortable with the whole thing but ya, where does it end? If you "ban" the Confederate flag do you also ban slave owners from the dollar bill etc.

I don't think it should be a major focus. We should all move on as a nation. Maybe recognize our history is tainted and move on. Look forward in lieu of fixating on past transgressions.