Apple Pulls Civil War Games From App Store Over Confederate Flag

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Sorry, but I agree with Xcathdra. I never grew up in the South and never lived there and don't really know anyone from there, but I am a bit of a Civil War buff. And after studying the issue from all sides, the underlying cause was states rights. Slavery was simply the catalyst.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

The union jack was used when Britain engaged in the slave trade. Is their flag racist?

How stupid.

So a racist loon kills people.

Apple decides to screw over developers for it.

Makes perfect sense in this #ed up country.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Uh, no it was not.

You are ignoring the implications to the southern way of life. Its local and international economy. The affect on its local laws and criminal justice system. The elevation of black to equal status changing societal makeup and status in the south. You are ignoring the impact of taxes placed on cotton and what that did to cotton exports.

None of which at the time were resolved issues between the states and federal governments.

It was about states rights. It was about the argument that the federal government had say over states that didn't agree with it.

Before anyone tries to go down the road I don't support slavery or treating blacks as only a partial person or as property. I am stating that at the time of the civil war we did not have amendments protecting blacks, or women for that matter.

Our constitution specifically states anything not specifically granted to the federal government is reserved solely to the states.

This was a states right issue and slavery was just one issue and not the sole issue.

Like I said, you aren't arguing with me or Loewen, you are arguing with primary sources. You can talk about all these other issues, of course you neglect the fact that each of those issues are DIRECTLY tied to slavery in someway, but that doesn't mean slavery wasn't the primary issue involved with the Civil War. After all, slavery was DIRECTLY tied to the economy of the south. Have you read this thread I authored?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also, please don't accuse me of being one of those low brow arguers who automatically assumes that just because you are arguing in support for an atrocious thing that you automatically support it.

If slavery were the sole issue please tell me when the emancipation proclamation was issued. The next question is why did it take so long? Could it be it would cripple the south industrial base and economy giving another edge to the north.

I JUST got done showing you that the North didn't go to war with the South to end slavery. You STILL haven't read that article?

a reply to: ketsuko

I've got you beat. I HAVE lived in the South. Two separate Southern states for that matter, one more if you count me living in Oklahoma within 45 minutes of Texas. I was FORCED to study the Civil War constantly while in school in the south (so I am VERY familiar with the State's Rights argument). I think I know more about that time period (and the period leading up to it) then any other period of American history.

Saying State's Rights is just glossing over the slavery thing. Calling it a catalyst ignores all the heated debate (and various slave rebellions, John Brown was the man by the way!) that happened leading up to it. The only way I'd accept someone describing the reasons the South seceded from the Union as State's rights is if someone says this, "It's about State's Rights, but mainly about Slavery".

a reply to: Krazysh0t

All of which are related to states rights.

And the south didn't go to war solely over slavery.

a reply to: Xcathdra


No one is banning anything btw.
But if you don't want to have the jack flying up to you.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Right, it's a circular argument. The Civil War is about slavery, which was a state's rights issue. The Civil War was also about economics and how black people were treated in the south. Those are also issues involving slavery. It all ties back to slavery. Saying that the Civil War was just about State's rights really doesn't do justice to the reasons the war was fought. You can't just exclude slavery or pretend it is under the umbrella description of "State's Rights".

a reply to: Krazysh0t

It also has to do with law and justice, taxation, international trade, the economy, etch etc et.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Is anything I'm saying getting through to you? I've already acknowledged those things to you and said that they all are also linked to slavery. I mean at least change your tactics a bit. How about letting me know that most Southerners didn't own slaves? I haven't heard that argument yet today.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Are you understanding me because I'm saying not all of those issue are linked to slavery, like taxation of cotton exports by the north.

a reply to: Xcathdra

But the cotton industry was DIRECTLY linked to slavery since it was picked on the backs of slave laborers. So trade tariffs on cotton exports is reliant on slavery as well. Without the slaves, the price of picking cotton goes up, meaning the tariffs would cut into their profits even MORE. That's economics 101 right there.

Also, tariffs are one of the only enumerated ways Congress is allowed to issue taxes. Tariffs on cotton exports isn't a State's Right issue, because Congress always had the right to issue those tariffs.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

The union jack was used when Britain engaged in the slave trade. Is their flag racist?

Sure the British were a bunch of racists, and they had slaves too. Is the British government flying racists flags now? No they arent. Are there still British racists? Yes there are. Are racists flying racist flags in the US yes they are. Is the government allowing a racist flag to be flown by the governemnt? Yes they are. See there is a difference. Nazis used to use a swastica is it still used by the German government? No it isnt. Is the Nazi flag used by racists globally yes it is.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Has there been a change to the union jack between slavery and when the British outlawed it - nope. Same one in use since 1601.


Let me put it this way. This is only any issue because of the news. If apple truly felt this way they would not have waited until now to stop selling anything with the confederate flag.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The video game community is the most outspoken because it's one of the very few areas where the community realizes that being unified can bend a company's will to their own. I can site several examples to back up that statement. No, publishers and developers don't care what I alone want. However, there are millions more with the same mindset as mine that want's PC and censorship out of gaming.

I could care less about stars for a post. Sure that poem has been overstated time and time again. That doesn't negate its meaning. You keep saying to take it up with Apple like you don't want the topic discussed here. I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. Sure Apple can sell whatever they want and dictate what goes in their app store. At the same time, I can choose not to use Apple products and opt for a PC to avoid their overt control and censorship. I have an iPhone 6+. It's also jailbroken to remove the complete control that Apple wants to claim. But this whole attempt at changing the topic to Apple's practice of limitating their hardware is off topic.

Here goes one last attempt to reiterate my point. This is all about the PRECEDENCE they are setting, and continually setting, each time they censor a game or an app because it isn't PC. Hence the poem. If it isn't combated, it spreads. The "whiniest" community ever, the video game community, will continue to be outspoken when games are threatened.

It's not being whiny. It's fighting for something that's cared about.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Lol. You apparently have never been to the GameFAQs forums if you believe that as true. Nothing like watching a bunch of entitled assholes complaining because they are getting "cheap shotted" by a game mechanic they don't fully understand and demanding nerfs or buffs to things they can't overcome. Yea that's TOTALLY warranted complaints. There may be a few issues dear to video gamers that are actually important as a whole, but they aren't the things commonly talked about.

Trust me, I got all my forum usage experience by frequenting different video game forums. When I say the community is stupidly whiny, I mean it. After all, a good bulk of the community are teenagers and pre-teens.

Also being unified? Lol yeah right! That community is so damn haphazard and broken it's not even funny. The console wars alone are an example of just one of the ways the community is skewed. Oh and don't mention that you are a pc gamer.

As for Apple. I don't buy Apple products. I never have. The only Apple product I have EVER owned is an iPod that I got from my company's rewards program. Even if I DID care about what Apple was doing here, there is really no way I could boycott Apple any more than I already am.

But again as I have stated multiple times, I view these "games" as a scam. I'd say they should be illegal, but I can't fault some fool for wanting to separate himself from his money. It's just a shame that they abuse Skinner manipulation to do it.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I can't argue that there are some places in the community that aren't fractured and broken. Particularly the FPS crowd the most. But a prime example of a unified community comes from the Mass Effect 3 crowd. They were so utterly pissed about how that game ended, that Bioware rewrote the ending. The fans of Battlefield, after being shafted by horrible release, held Dice to the flame and everything they do now is under complete scrutiny. It's all hit and miss of course, but under the right circumstances, the community does come together and affects change.

I know you hold these games as scams. I agree with that assessment and don't support any game with IAP or microtransactions. That doesn't change that it's still a game though. If people aren't outspoken and are apathetic, the censorship will eventually come to AAA titles. It's got to start somewhere.

BTW... I am a PC gamer. It's the single most elitist community in the gaming community. And I'm okay with that.

I also wanted to add that I stay away from gamefaqs and IGN, and sites like that. They are horrible and in every way define what it is to be a troll.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Has there been a change to the union jack between slavery and when the British outlawed it - nope. Same one in use since 1601.


Let me put it this way. This is only any issue because of the news. If apple truly felt this way they would not have waited until now to stop selling anything with the confederate flag.

Apple doesnt want to support racist terrorists period, the church shooting has made them think twice about what they want to be apart of.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I can't argue that there are some places in the community that aren't fractured and broken. Particularly the FPS crowd the most. But a prime example of a unified community comes from the Mass Effect 3 crowd. They were so utterly pissed about how that game ended, that Bioware rewrote the ending. The fans of Battlefield, after being shafted by horrible release, held Dice to the flame and everything they do now is under complete scrutiny. It's all hit and miss of course, but under the right circumstances, the community does come together and affects change.

For every example like Mass Effect 3, I can bring up companies like Capcom who just piss all over their fans (when was the last time you saw a Megaman game? though the best example is when they released SF x Tekken and forced the buyers of the game to have to buy half the cast as DLC after they already bought the game) or EA (which is like the equivalent of if the devil started a video game company).

I know you hold these games as scams. I agree with that assessment and don't support any game with IAP or microtransactions. That doesn't change that it's still a game though. If people aren't outspoken and are apathetic, the censorship will eventually come to AAA titles. It's got to start somewhere.

I'd rather just wait until it destroys these games (which the industry has steadily been moving towards for a while now, so then the industry would move in another direction) then speak up when it gets to indie games or AAA games. Actually I care more for indie games than AAA games, but I'd be willing to speak up if they came under assault. I just can't be bothered to care about defending a scam being passed off as a game, especially when I already hate the company who is causing the problem. It's really just a whole event that entertains me to no end.

One more thing about Apple. Apple is the company for hipsters and artsy types. This move by Apple is going to appeal DIRECTLY to their fanbase.

BTW... I am a PC gamer. It's the single most elitist community in the gaming community. And I'm okay with that.

At least we finally agree on SOMETHING.

I also wanted to add that I stay away from gamefaqs and IGN, and sites like that. They are horrible and in every way define what it is to be a troll.

Yea... There is a reason I don't go there anymore...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
One more thing about Apple. Apple is the company for hipsters and artsy types. This move by Apple is going to appeal DIRECTLY to their fanbase.

Well crap. Their move now makes complete sense to me. That line of reasoning absolutely eluded me and was probably your whole point all along. Good call.