British Big Cat Sighting

a reply to: Kester

The human environment probably selects for black cats since they're nocturnal.

a reply to: nOraKat

There isn't any one species of big cat that is black. It's strictly a Mutation similar to albinoism.
You can't breed pure ablino cats or dogs and have 100% results on the litter. The chances of seeing a large pitch black big cat in the wild is as rare as say. Getting struck by lightning. Since their the big cat numbers are below 50,000 between continents... How many people are there in the world. A huge majority of the bigcats are in captivity...

BobCats are not pure black. And are much smaller than a Big Cat. Bob cats are the size of a small to medium sized dog. Big cats are as big as a big dog and larger.

Also depends where you live, Cuz the largest percentage of courgars in the world is in north america. UK pretty much has declared their big cats extinct.

a reply to: AnuTyr

The bobcat sighting was relayed to me by a hunting friend who had faith in the witnesses ability to identify it. Very much an anomaly here and most likely a recent escapee, but we can't know for sure.

There are escapees and releases of many different breeds, large and small. Giving examples would be too wordy but there have been plenty over the centuries for many different reasons.

Smaller cats were used as ratters on the old sailing ships and some have established breeding populations in the areas around the old ports.

Cougars have been breeding here for many years. They are notoriously elusive and see us thousands of times for every once we see them.

Lynx are a special case. Some experts here think the native lynx was never fully exterminated. The cleverest of all survived, so the native lynx became a cleverer breed. Now they have bred in with the escapees and releases.

I'm told a pair of melanistic leopards will produce melanistic offspring, and in places where leopards live under a dense forest canopy the melanistic form does well. Hence the assumption that the European leopards here would likely have evolved into a melanistic form in the forests that formerly covered this island.

Once out in the open the black leopards are easier to see. This is why the Romans favoured the black leopards for the arena. They created more of a spectacle than a sandy coloured cat in a sandy arena.

The Romans were so efficient at catching leopards some populations never recovered after Roman times. The leopards were driven until they sought shelter in an artificial den which was actually a cage disguised with branches and rocks. Such value was put on black leopards that quotas were set and had to be met.

This leads me to assume breeding programmes were established. Looking for a Roman leopard breeding site here I soon came across the valley below The White 'Horse' Of Uffington'. This thread expanded considerably on the basic idea and I still don't have any lead on a Roman breeding site. www.abovetopsecret.com... Some of the links are dead but a bit of searching will clarify.

Every year on the anniversary of the publication of this thread, all the serious British Big Cat researchers get together and burn my effigy. www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'd forgotten I'd written this one. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Added to all this there is a huge size variation, I've seen them from small collie size to big leopard size.

Shapeshifting is. I don't know what to say. Perhaps, 'Shapeshifting is a thread desperate to be born'.

www.harpur.org...

Merrily Harpur, who has investigated the issue in great depth and written a book on the subject, has arrived at the conclusion that Mystery Cats, like Black Dogs, are possibly daimonic in nature. According to the Neo-Platonists and the Ancient Greeks, a daimonic entity is not actually a ghost or spirit in the conventional understanding of the words. Daimonic creatures are said to inhabit a reality between the physical world we all live in, and an invisible realm allegedly just beyond our so-called reality.

www.paganpathways-sheffield.co.uk...:Mystery_Cats

Last but certainly not least a big thank you to Di Francis who stuck it out in the face of extreme opposition.

Di points to several good eyewitness reports – made at close range, sometimes by experienced observers – that describe a cat in great detail, the problem being that that cat does not match with any known species.

scienceblogs.com...

a reply to: Kester

Regarding the shape, was it like a leopard, which is the term you use? Some seen are reported to look like leopards, and others like jaguars, or, here in the states, even black cougars. Someone I went to school with says he saw one of those. Curious, because I like to consider the possibility of some species not officially named.

Bet that was some sight!

I have seen one of these black cats in the late 80s early 90s. I saw the cat at least on two occasions, one time it fled and the other it paused. I never felt afraid and tried on both occasions to get someone to witness. Once eyes were off it, it seemed to be able to vanish or was able to hide out of site. The animal was about 10 feet away or less, looked like a black jaguar but smaller, maybe about the size of a mnt lion. I'm in the US so not sure if it was the same exact phenomenon, but just wanted to add my experience because it matches somewhat with the big cat sightings.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

This most recent sighting was at a distance so I can only say what my impression was. The quick answer is my impression was leopard shape, possibly female judging from size though that's a wild and probably unfounded guess. Exploring later showed the dense patch of bushes behind it contained suitable conditions for a den for cubs. Another reason for keeping quiet regarding the exact location. Breeding in this area is sometimes openly discussed by vets, farmers and others who would have a good idea. Others, bat conservationists in my experience, go strangely silent when asked about evidence found underground. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised for the next reported sighting here to be a leopard with cubs.

Scientific classification is only a way of helping us understand and learn. It isn't a fixed system that the natural world must adhere to.

Leopards from different parts of the world are different sizes – males can range in size from 30kg to 91kg!

Sometimes leopards look so different from each other it would be easy to think they were a different species

More often than not though, the slight differences in size, coat colour and more can be indicative of different subspecies of leopard. These slight differences are all part of what makes them subspecies! The leopards are not different species, because they could all interbreed and produce fertile offspring given the opportunity, but because they are generally isolated from each other they can't interbreed and so are classed as subspecies. It is thought that the modern leopard we know today first evolved in Africa, and then radiated across much of the rest of the world, where it split into subspecies.

In the past, as many as 27 subspecies have been suggested, but advances in DNA testing technology in the 1990s has been able to provide a more precise estimate. However, it is still only an estimate...

Leopards truly are the most mysterious of all the big cats. Although lots of research has been done, most of what we know about leopards is based on observations of African leopards, so some "facts" might not even be completely accurate for all subspecies.

www.lions.org...

This last point is a big bone of contention. Frequently those of us strongly interested in black leopard type cats here are talked down to by experts whose knowledge is of African leopards.

I once saw what appeared to be a lynx sitting at the side of the road but I can't be sure as I passed it at speed in the dark. I saw a large, skinny and exhausted looking grey cougar in Woodchester. I don't mind mentioning the location because Woodchester is a very well known hotspot for sightings and many people have seen a skinny grey cougar in that area in the past, as well as many black leopard types. On another occasion I heard a cougar scream when I was delivering milk in Woodchester at 3:00 in the morning. My boss and I were running in opposite directions, (the only way to get milk delivered in time in a rural area), we both froze and looked back at each other. When we got back to the van we agreed that we thought at first it was a woman's scream, but we then both realised it was more likely a cougar. I've also heard a cougar scream near Kiltarlity which is in an area of Scotland where cougars have been reported breeding for many years.

I was looking for a different story to illustrate a point but I found this. www.ross-shirejournal.co.uk...

A ROSS-SHIRE woman who had dismissed big cat sightings as "totally fantastical" had a dramatic change of heart after seeing a mysterious black creature cross the road in front of her.

A good example of a sceptic who then saw a big cat.

The clearest sighting I had was in bright sunlight at the side of the M5 motorway in Somerset. A large black leopard.

The biggest one I saw was after very heavy rain. He appeared to have been washed out of his sleeping place and walked stiffly across the field, stopping to lick his front paws. This sighting was from our house, my wife and I watched him together. We often saw roe deer a little further down the field towards us so we could be certain of the scale. He was huge. I would even tentatively suggest he may have been the notorious Boris. He crosses the river from the Forest of Dean at the ancient migratory crossing at Arlingham, then travels through the woods around Dursley and Woodchester then over Minchinhampton Common to the woods around Birdlip. Minchinhampton Common is one of the few places they can stretch their legs and they're often reported running across there.

Computer freezing so got to post this unfinished.

a reply to: StarsComeOut

Very interesting. 10 feet is close. A boy here walked over to one in the field behind his house and shone his torch down onto the black leopard that was a similar distance away. His parents insisted he'd been mistaken but he knew what he'd seen. Later I told the farmer who's sheep were in that field. He looked thoughtful and said, "I found a dead ewe in that field. The flesh had been neatly stripped off her." His wife, a vet, just pointed up at the woods and said, "They breed up there. We've treated several injured farm animals over the years."

I remember watching this documentary awhile back where they went out with thermal cameras and audio recording equipment and captured a large roar. Def a big cat no doubt about it. Also if I remember correctly they caught a large mass on thermal either right before or after. But definitely a roar of some kind. Nothing a dog, wolf, bear could duplicate. Most likely from someone that had a large cat illegally and either got away so obviously they aren't going to report it missing and get themselves caught or they released it when it got to big and couldn't take care of it. Pretty crazy to think about

I've run into big cats and even seen a black panther, all up close, sometimes in the forest.
Mostly you are not a prey item, look for deer kills where the stomach area and thighs were bitten out and neck wounds or cattle with neck and face wounds.
Only worry if it is winter, you are always potentially prey if a large predator is hungry enough and their is no other food source.
Don't run and gouge for the eyes. They will jump from your blind spot and try to break your neck and or suffocate you. Neck and head is what they attack (also try to disembowel you with rear legs). If your really skilled dodge as they jump and grab by the base of tail and scruff of neck, tiger by the tail, ey wot ; )
I send thoughts out on hikes and say I am not prey and that killing a person has fatal consequences as other humans will surely respond, a form of prayer to a preyer ; )
The Indians near me used to put sharpened stakes above their packs so that they would not be dropped on from above, as they like high point ambushes such as ledges.
a reply to: Kester

originally posted by: Baltazar84
...someone that had a large cat illegally and either got away so obviously they aren't going to report it...

This happens. Who wants to be held responsible for what might happen, particularly if the cat was held illegally. Even legally held cats may be quickly replaced if possible to avoid being held responsible for an escapee.

a reply to: starswift

Confusion often arises over different meanings for the word panther. Here in the UK panther usually means black leopard.

In Africa and Asia, panther refers to leopards. In North America, it refers to mountain lion. In South America, it refers to jaguars.

www.quora.com...


This video is typical of the 'experts' view that you didn't see what you saw, and if it isn't scientifically verified it is highly unlikely to exist. It must take a certain kind of thinking to hold that view, not the kind of thinking that you or I share, particularly with our personal experience.
I found a deer kill on a well used footpath near here. I nearly moved it to avoid upsetting the tourists then I thought, leave it, it's the countryside, they might as well get used to it.

Fight. Definitely fight with bare hands or whatever you've got if you are attacked. www.petersenshunting.com...

Sending out thoughts is an angle that the scientific thinkers deprive themselves of. Big cat hunters sometimes find that the cat they're after will move to the other side of its territory when the hunter sets out on the trip. They know you're coming. Here trail cameras have been set up on paths known to be used. When no pictures are forthcoming careful tracking shows they walked behind the cameras. They sense the intention. Some think the extreme rarity of serious attacks on humans here is because the cats know that will create danger for them.

as I always post on big black cats....they have a canine face.....
I've seen two...my bud was animal warden in Irving Texas...said reports have been since the 1800's....in the Trinity river bottoms.
I'm a huge outdoorsman....once I got help from my librarian on them....a week later her mom had used up two rolls of film on one in Farmersville Texas....kind strange to see one from 20 feet and it looked like a dog....till it turned and had a cougar tail...the face looks like a pit bull dog

a reply to: GBP/JPY

This is very interesting. Dog-faced cats have been reported here but information is suspiciously hard to find. Some prehistoric cats may have been dog-faced. Almost like time travel is possible.

Like many of us you know what you saw. The naysayers only know what thoughts popped into their minds.

I had a cat jump at my car, it was playing like my car was a deer and intercepted and jumped.
Passing in front of the headlights I thought, gee strange dog, has a creamy muzzle and big yellow eyes like a Hollywood monster. On later reflection I realized it was a cat. I saw a black panther that I thought was a large dog with very shiny teeth and eyes cruising at about 20-30 mph. So, yup, very canine looking.
a reply to: GBP/JPY

I think part of the confusion is that leopard, black leopard, mountain lion, panther, eastern panther, western panther, mountain lion, Cougar, etc.
are genetically all the same animal here in North America (just covering all the bases). African leopards are likely what is different and maybe a species of South American Leopard cat, or spotted leopard. In North America, from what I can figure, it' all the same. In the British Isles you know more of that, I think you suggested it was of a European descent.
The terms we use in the north east are Cougar or Mountain Lion. If you see a black one it's a black leopard but probably just a black variant. Black leopards are not commonly sighted in North America, especially in the North East. Perhaps a genetic recessive, or rogue gene that expresses itself occasionaly?
etca reply to: Kester

a reply to: Kester
I never knew seeing a big cat was such a big deal. I don't think you would have to worry much unless there numbers drastically increase, and considering its Brittan which is an island, that's not likely to happen to any significant degree. And if there elusive, then there elusive for a reason. But in all don't know what the big deal is. If there stalking around towns and cities then keep you pets on a leash, not many big cats go into populated areas looking for food, there more sole type animals then anything and avoid humans.

If its anything like the states the .gov agencies know of them but do not want to admit it publicly. We had cougar sightings and tracks in mid michigan. Had the Department of natural resources(DNR) come out to confirm tracks. They were confirmed, yet DNR publicly still denied such animals in the area. They are slowly admitting they are in the state now but say they are only up north in the remote areas.
The DNR's of most states are playing this political game concerning cougars, bears, and wolves.

a reply to: jellyrev

There's a cover-up going on here as well. I know a man who has a moderate sized one in his freezer but he feels it isn't big enough to impress anyone. If you produced a full sized black big cat, dead or alive, they'd just say it was a recent escapee. It would be difficult enough if it was just here or the states or Australia, but all three places having a very similar phenomena is impossible to explain using conventional knowledge.

a reply to: GBP/JPY
Look at page 1 Mandroid7 post. Could just be a black Presa Canario which somehow got out into the wild, it does not seem likely but you never know. Though even if it was a jaguar, you all realize that for the most part that describes a color of these big cats.

And like another has said, the gene for that can skip generations and is a bit more rare, just like once in a while you get albino versions as well which is even more rare, but it would not surprise me if it came out in mountain lions now and again.

Besides these big cats are pretty good at not being seen if they wanted to, but its not like they dont exist or are mythological creatures, there around, and even in the wilderness with a population of big cats around, unless its the African plain, then its not likely that you would see them. Its just there nature, and even in the common house cat that holds true to some degree, basically unlike dogs or wolfs even they like there space and solidarity.

a reply to: Kester

Some excellent data there! I get annoyed all the time at the supposed "experts" myself. Not only do they make assumptions based on limited knowledge, such as in the case of the leopards, but they also totally ignore local testimony. Here in the states, cougars have been claimed to be virtually extinct east of the Mississippi River, but people see them literally all the time, and always have, for decade and decades. They were never even rare, f you go by sightings by locals. I have a cousin who has seen them in Kentucky, and says people there spot them regularly. Yet officially, they are east of the Mississippi only in Florida. Go figure! The large black cats, of course, "don't exist at all", even though people sight them all over, and there have been videos verified to be LARGE cats, all black. I suspect many of those are jaguars, since they are known here.

When I was in high school, the Witte Museum in San Antonio (Texas) had a room set up (and still might) as a sort of walk-through diorama, with a trail, various trees and bushes, and all sorts of stuffed wildlife native to Texas. The display included a jaguar. I'll say this, too; even with standard coloration, that sucker was HARD to spot! You could see it from above, looking over the bushed, but almost everyone looking missed it till they got to the plaque at the end that showed what was in there, and where. We'd have all been jaguar chow, had it been alive! These days, the "experts" claim they are rarely seen in the U.S. at all. I don't believe them. Jaguar do come on black, and would fit many of the sightings very well. That said, a guy I went to school with claims to have seen a black cougar, too, and supposedly there are none of those. Cougars look different from the other big cats (and officially are not a "big cat"), so I don't see someone mistaking that on a close sighting. I saw a cougar behind our house when I was in school, too. I was out back, looking at stars away from the street lights, for a good 20-30 minutes, and had no idea it was there. Not till it dropped off the carport across the alleyway, anyway! Unmistakable size and shape, from where I was standing, Maybe 15-20 feet away, but I could not see the coloration. It looked dark, but with the lighting out back, it would have if normal color, so I can't say there. I had no idea it was around. We knew some wild cat was, but everyone thought it was a bobcat that would prowl through every couple of months, riling up the dogs, that people had actually spotted. That time, it was not a bobcat upsetting them! I am glad it wasn't hungry, because I would have been easy prey. Loved seeing it, though!

One of my kids claimed to see a large spotted cat, that he said looked more like a jaguar in pattern than a leopard, in the area we were living. Midwest int hat case, and nothing here, so they claim, but bobcats (which we've spotted), and maybe a cougar. He said it was in a tree across the street from our house, in a residential area. Younger at the time, but they all know, and did then, what a bobcat looks like, because they have seen them in the zoo, pretty close. He swore this was way bigger, and spotted like a jaguar. Didn't make me very happy! Sometime after that, the older son and I were walking the dogs one night. To larger dogs (Rottie mix and a lab mix), and the older dog - very smart - started acting weird. The younger did as well, usually very happy to be outside, and now acting scared, and skittish. Both my sin and I got the feeling of being watched, and stalked, and I was SURE this was a cat. I have this way of knowing when an animal is around at night, such as while driving, and one is near the road, and it's way stronger for the usual house cat. This was cat, alright, but not a house cat. I can't prove it, but I know what I felt. We were sure we were followed, halfway around a block, and toward the house, but never could spot anything. We figured the only reason it didn't attack was there were two us us, but adults, and two larger dogs. Never got a sense after that it was around, and never heard of a sighting, but then, anything reported would likely not be announced, either. I swore if I did see it I was shooting, though! Smaller kids, then, and that would be a real threat.

Hope the computer is better! Will be perusing the links in more depth, too. Appreciated! Stay safe over there.