10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down

originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: Kapusta
Well , you have to agree the measures placed on owning guns is getting outrageous.

You have my attention. Could you develop please because I don't see how it is getting outrageous.

Well , for example here in CA , Last year we used to be able to buy a rifle or a shotgun , walk in pay for it comeback about 7 days later and pick it up . Now you have to pay more money to get the "handgun safety" ( not rifle safety ) certificate in fact i don't believe their is a rifle safety cert . but rest assure I am sure they will come up with one .....


Look they make these regulations for two things , One, to make money and two , to make it harder for people to purchase guns thus "taking the guns out of the hands of people" .

Also they took away the open carry laws in CA , since they have done that their has been a influx of people trying to get a CCW so that really bit them in the arse , now they are trying to make that impossible to achieve , it takes now about 6 to 8 months to get a CCW.

these are just a few examples .... Outrageous, no ?

don't get me started on Ammo.

Guns make cowards brave.

For such a great country, it sure does have a lot of gun related crime and deaths like a third world country.

They love to say guns create a polite society but what it actually does it create a society that lives in fear of being shot because of misunderstandings.

Why do criminals have so much power over there that people feel they need to be armed at all times. Why do gun owners live in constant fear of death, rape..etc.

Are these the kinds of people you want armed, paranoid people who believe around every corner there is a killer out to get them?

Zimmerman is a perfect example of a coward. He instigates something and then kills when things got too rough for him.

originally posted by: Kapusta
to make it harder for people to purchase guns thus "taking the guns out of the hands of people" .

How making something harder to purchase is the same as taking it from your hand? Sorry but this is a logical fallacy.

Also aren't these laws at state level?

So why are pro-guns people ranting about the federal government trying to grab their guns? Really if someone can explain this to me?

originally posted by: krosnos
Guns make cowards brave.

For such a great country, it sure does have a lot of gun related crime and deaths like a third world country.

They love to say guns create a polite society but what it actually does it create a society that lives in fear of being shot because of misunderstandings.

Why do criminals have so much power over there that people feel they need to be armed at all times. Why do gun owners live in constant fear of death, rape..etc.

Are these the kinds of people you want armed, paranoid people who believe around every corner there is a killer out to get them?

Zimmerman is a perfect example of a coward. He instigates something and then kills when things got too rough for him.

come come now , Its a lack of moral compass that make people do dumb stuff.

As a gun owner I don't live in fear nor do i invite it .

I have pondered the question "could i or would i ever shoot anyone"

to be fully honest the thought of being in a situation like that really makes me sick , I would NEVER want to take a life that is not mine to take .

But then I think about my kids and the whole "what if's", like what if someone breaks into my house at night ? and then this calming feeling comes over me because my 1911 is sitting right next to me .

It's normal to be prepared and to protect your self and your family .

Whats not normal is assuming everyone has the same agenda or peace and love attitude.

This world is filled is evil and i chose to keep it at bay if it ever decides to invite its self in without my permission anyway .

originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: Kapusta
to make it harder for people to purchase guns thus "taking the guns out of the hands of people" .

How making something harder to purchase is the same as taking it from your hand? Sorry but this is a logical fallacy.

Also aren't these laws at state level?

So why are pro-guns people ranting about the federal government trying to grab their guns? Really if someone can explain this to me?

They are doing it by subversion , creating new law to overthrow current laws and though reform .

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: Kapusta
to make it harder for people to purchase guns thus "taking the guns out of the hands of people" .

How making something harder to purchase is the same as taking it from your hand? Sorry but this is a logical fallacy.

Also aren't these laws at state level?

So why are pro-guns people ranting about the federal government trying to grab their guns? Really if someone can explain this to me?

They are doing it by subversion , creating new law to overthrow current laws and though reform .

I'm sorry but this sentence answers none of my questions to you

I'm just trying to understand please help me there and talk to me like I know nothing about this because it's the case.


How making something harder to purchase is the same as taking it from your hand? This sounds like a dramatic exaggeration. And why being mad at the federal gov if it's states which change their laws?

a reply to: JUhrman

They have failed repeatedly with banning through regulations, (thanks to hyper vigilance by gun owners )so the next step is pricing things out of the reach of the regular person... Be it ammo or the guns themselves.

I don't think guns are the perfect security blanket, but there is that old saying ... When seconds count cops are minutes away... A gun gives me better odds against multiple attackers or an armed attacker.

originally posted by: irishhaf
a reply to: JUhrman

They have failed repeatedly with banning through regulations, (thanks to hyper vigilance by gun owners )so the next step is pricing things out of the reach of the regular person... Be it ammo or the guns themselves.

I don't think guns are the perfect security blanket, but there is that old saying ... When seconds count cops are minutes away... A gun gives me better odds against multiple attackers or an armed attacker.

Then why pro-guns always claim the gov wants to grab their guns when in reality the only thing happening is that new guns are a bit more expensive (and isn't there also a market for used guns sold between individuals with much less administrative trouble)?


Sounds like they wildly exaggerate everything in their claims. Like they try to appeal to emotions of people rather than discussing things in a rational fashion if you ask me. Probably because they know deep down there is no real reasons to be mad.

a reply to: JUhrman

Because since the attempt on regan (that's when I first noticed it) repeated attempts to ban the sale of fire arms has occurred... Every shooting Feinstein tries, every tragedy some idiot stands up blaming an inanimate object.

Those that fight the attempts by the far left get villified in the press and regular folks.

Also the secondary market is irrelevant, the constitution says I have a right to be armed. So I shouldn't have to buy a gun or ammo in the back alley...

Also ammo regs are more concerning to me, it is harder to raise awareness and get people into the fight... What use is a gun with no ammo.

originally posted by: irishhaf

the constitution says I have a right to be armed. So I shouldn't have to buy a gun or ammo in the back alley...

Uh actually the constitution never said you should be provided with a cheap and easy way to arm yourself.

Sorry but like most butthurt pro-guns you seem to do nothing but whine about how reality doesn't conform to your selfish and juvenile vision of the world.

a reply to: JUhrman

So do you have an argument, or just name calling?

What is your stance, banned heavily regulated, or only select groups get to have them...

At least us butt hurt pro gun folks are trying to protect a right... If more people fought to protect the rights they cherish we wouldn't be so screwed as a nation!

originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: irishhaf

the constitution says I have a right to be armed. So I shouldn't have to buy a gun or ammo in the back alley...

Uh actually the constitution never said you should be provided with a cheap and easy way to arm yourself.

Sorry but like most butthurt pro-guns you seem to do nothing but whine about how reality doesn't conform to your selfish and juvenile vision of the world.

slow down , no need to go on spouting out insults .

You asked how they are trying to take the guns away from the people , I said through subversion and reform of law.
the other poster gave a good example .

its a slow process because we have pro gun people in the gov .

it's not something that happens overnight , to us gun owners who keep up with current events surrounding guns we see changes that are quite obvious .

The Change is Geared towards trying restrict gun sales , thus again keeping the guns out of the hands of the people .

the feds are moving and shaking with this right along with the state level subversion .

let me ask you , why else would they be implementing these laws ?

a reply to: Kapusta


Man this is such a BS mix of crummy "facts" one doesn't know where to begin.

originally posted by: irishhaf
What is your stance?

originally posted by: irishhaf
heavily regulated

I see no point in a ban. Some people shoot for hunting or pleasure, or keep a gun for self defense.


I don't think anyone in their right mind, government included, wants to "take guns from people hands" that one of the most deceiving lies I have seen from pro gun activists. Not only it's stupid and against the law, it's also impossible.

So I have no idea why this argument keeps popping up as it will never happen. Even outside the US people can own guns. You can probably count on your hand the amount of countries where the government "took all guns from people hands", if that ever happened.


On the other hand I consider it problematic that there is a market for modern guns that can easily escape any form of requirement and regulation simply because it is done between people, outside of a shop. I also understand that it will piss off gun owners to have to follow stricter regulations to buy a gun but honestly I don't care. Sometimes you have to make an effort for the good of the community.

originally posted by: irishhaf
a reply to: JUhrman

So do you have an argument, or just name calling?

What is your stance, banned heavily regulated, or only select groups get to have them...

At least us butt hurt pro gun folks are trying to protect a right... If more people fought to protect the rights they cherish we wouldn't be so screwed as a nation!

Yea. Me personally I see the suspension of the 2nd amendment on the same level as striping blacks of rights and putting them back to work without pay in the cotton fields. No free speech, no 2nd amendment is a political cotton field.

originally posted by: Logarock
Yea. Me personally I see the suspension of the 2nd amendment on the same level as striping blacks of rights and putting them back to work without pay in the cotton fields. No free speech, no 2nd amendment is a political cotton field.

Please show us where the federal government or a state government tried to suspend the second amendment altogether.

originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: irishhaf
What is your stance?

originally posted by: irishhaf
heavily regulated

I see no point in a ban. Some people shoot for hunting or pleasure, or keep a gun for self defense.


I don't think anyone in their right mind, government included, wants to "take guns from people hands" that one of the most deceiving lies I have seen from pro gun activists. Not only it's stupid and against the law, it's also impossible.

So I have no idea why this argument keeps popping up as it will never happen. Even outside the US people can own guns. You can probably count on your hand the amount of countries where the government "took all guns from people hands", if that ever happened.


On the other hand I consider it problematic that there is a market for modern guns that can easily escape any form of requirement and regulation simply because it is done between people, outside of a shop. I also understand that it will piss off gun owners to have to follow stricter regulations to buy a gun but honestly I don't care. Sometimes you have to make an effort for the good of the community.

I do believe you are the one who brought it up , and I wouldn't say "Never" unless you are able to predict the future .
Look a the UK , What happen to their guns ? gone...

a reply to: JUhrman

Thank you for outlining your stance, I appreciate it.

I am open to the idea of some increased gun control, the problem is the way Congress writes the bill. Typically it's very vague and open to interpretation, so lots of opportunity for abuse (civil asset forfeiture as an example).

Another example is what Colorado did post Aurora shooting. (going off memory so bear with me) number of new laws quickly passed and shortly after that County sheriff's saying this is not enforceable... So I won't even try.
So time and money was spent to pass laws the law felt they couldn't enforce...

So how do you increase regulation and secure the 2nd amendment.... I don't see a way with today's bought and paid for politicians.

originally posted by: Kapusta
I do believe you are the one who brought it up , and I wouldn't say "Never" unless you are able to predict the future .

Uh sorry but I didn't invent these words. They are literally everywhere each time someone talks about gun rights in the US.

It's a very successful move from the gun lobbyists that they used these words so often it's now perfectly normal to use the words "gun grab" even when it's not about literally taking guns from people's hand.

originally posted by: Kapusta
Look a the UK , What happen to their guns ? gone...

Looking at the UK? OK. The United Kingdom has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world. And you can very much own a gun in UK. Just not all types of guns. How does that constitutes preventing people from owning a gun? It doesn't.

a reply to: JUhrman

Uh sorry but I didn't invent these words. They are literally everywhere each time someone talks about gun rights in the US.

Sure , But these words were not present until you brought them to this thread and then you complain about them .

As far as the UK goes how is the crime rate for home invasions stabbings etc ?