Is the Confederate flag a Sigil being attacked on purpose?

The symbology of the Confederacy died when the war was over. It was resurrected when the civil rights movement took off, a direct statement to black people that they would never be equal... and a government should NEVER be allowed to make such a statement. If individuals want to display that sigil well, that's their prerogative.

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Mugly
a reply to: queenofswords

thats a load.
i grew up in the south and never once felt anything like that.
ive never owned anything with that flag on it and even as a kid, when i saw people with the big ass rebel flag shirt i thought they looked like a total tool.
still feel that way

Then you didn't live all over the South. As I said, that flag has two meanings. When we kill it, we will be "metaphysically" effecting the spirit of both.

Hey I already saw a thread today on the loss of the Confederate flag "killing" dixie. What is it with Southerners and attaching ALL that is being southern to a silly flag? Just make a new flag and attach southern pride to that. It's not like if the Confederate flag disappeared from existence tomorrow that you'd all stop being Southerners.

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: highfromphoenix

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: highfromphoenix

To some. Not all. But, the hyperbolic ranting and the appeasement politicians and the focus on those that use it to represent hate, make you all think that everybody that holds the sygil dear are racists. That is so far from the real truth.

Okay since most perceive it as a racist symbol why not create a new symbol that represents your own feelings? Something more appropriate for the day in which we live.

That sounds like a good idea. But, can it have the power that the one from the secession had? I don't know. What would you suggest?

Not sure I'm not a resident of the South East, I live in Phoenix. There must be something you can use that maintains the dignity and love you feel without being offensive to others.

TC.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
And meanwhile the TPP fast track is getting rammed through congress...

I agree. I see the whole thing as nothing more than a smoke screen. The media picked something sure to raise a reaction from people and distract them from other things that are more important. Every time a fuss gets kicked up about something like what is going on now I always dig around and see what else could be going on that they don't want the public eye to fall on.

There's an X on the british flag, maybe they should remove it.

There's stars on the USA flag, maybe they should remove that too.

brb just thinking about what else should be banned that people find offensive, minority people that is.

But yes it is a smoke screen i agree, it's consistant with timely measure when something big is about the hit the fan.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
And meanwhile the TPP fast track is getting rammed through congress...

True. But to be fair, that would be happening if we were discussing this issue or not. If we were discussing the TPP, it would still be rammed through.

Besides, the VAST majority of us agree on the merits of the TPP. In fact, I haven't seen any ATS member who agrees with it...

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It's like we can't focus on more than one thing. Off-topic but America said no to fast track, no to the TPP in all the ways we were supposed to. Once it hit the House we did even more, calling our reps to tell them not to vote it through... then once it did, we called our Senators.

I'm not sure what else we were supposed to do.

I'm not sure what else we were supposed to do.

Fly the Rebel flag, perhaps? When we all fly that flag on our houses, our cars, our churches, our stores, black and white together, when our government ignores The People, the true spirit of that sygil becomes powerful. Let's kill the racial connotations, not the spirit.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It seems to me that a concerted, hard effort is being made by the media to blow this issue (the flag thing) up, meanwhile downplaying the TPP fast track which undoubtedly will hold far-reaching implications for generations to come.

The flag itself is just a physical item, removing/banning it won't stop or end racism.

If the TPP fast track was front and center in the news, more people would become informed about it, and a better chance we'd have at forestalling or amending it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Mugly
a reply to: queenofswords

thats a load.
i grew up in the south and never once felt anything like that.
ive never owned anything with that flag on it and even as a kid, when i saw people with the big ass rebel flag shirt i thought they looked like a total tool.
still feel that way

Then you didn't live all over the South. As I said, that flag has two meanings. When we kill it, we will be "metaphysically" effecting the spirit of both.

Hey I already saw a thread today on the loss of the Confederate flag "killing" dixie. What is it with Southerners and attaching ALL that is being southern to a silly flag? Just make a new flag and attach southern pride to that. It's not like if the Confederate flag disappeared from existence tomorrow that you'd all stop being Southerners.

Do you ever read the comments from an entire thread? Do you ever get the gist of the topic's discussion?

a reply to: queenofswords

No thank-you! There's other symbols that work better that don't state blacks will never be equal.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
If the TPP fast track was front and center in the news, more people would become informed about it, and a better chance we'd have at forestalling or amending it.

I agree with absolutely every word you said, except for this. We can not be informed about it because no one is revealing the details of it. The president and the congressional republicans aren't listening to us, anyway. We have no chance of amending or forestalling it. The voters oppose it in vast numbers, but that doesn't matter to Obama or those in the legislature voting for it.

I heard, and looked up this tidbit of history:

"Do you know when that flag was first flown at the Columbia statehouse in Columbia?" he asked during an interview on Meet the Press June 21. "1961 … it was a middle finger directed at the federal government. It was flown there as a symbol of massive resistance to racial desegregation. Period."

From PolitiFact:

Our ruling

Robinson stated that when the Confederate flag was first flown over South Carolina’s statehouse in 1961, and it was hoisted as a symbol of "massive resistance to racial desegregation."

Robinson is right on the date. The flag first flew over the statehouse to mark the opening ceremonies of a Civil War Centennial celebration.

Whether it was raised as a deliberate symbol of a "resistance to racial desegregation" is not completely clear. Experts and research find a circumstantial link between the spread of the flag and the racial divisions of the 1950s and 1960s.

We rate Robinson’s claim Mostly True.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It's like we can't focus on more than one thing. Off-topic but America said no to fast track, no to the TPP in all the ways we were supposed to. Once it hit the House we did even more, calling our reps to tell them not to vote it through... then once it did, we called our Senators.

I'm not sure what else we were supposed to do.

Sorry to tell you Kali but...

You are behind, Fast Track Authority, has passed. More maneuvering by 'the chamber of whorers - erh commerce'.

They just keep on coming.

a reply to: FyreByrd

We no longer have slavery. Do you really think that flag would be flying high all over the south if it represented racist hatred?! Of course not.

Southern blacks and whites share a history together and always will. It wasn't pretty at certain periods in time, but today we walk side by side and that flag does not represent racial hatred for all southerners, including many blacks. Some have usurped it and painted the entire spirit of the flag with their racial bigotry.

But, the Confederate flag to many southerners means standing up, speaking out, and embracing the spirit of the Declaration of Independence as I pointed out in the OP. It represents strength, valor, and a line in the sand.

And you know what? Take this to the bank: Our Federal Government KNOWS that. As I said, "kill the sygil and you weaken the spirit of that sygil".

That flag is not just about race, but that is what they want the whole country to believe and if you don't accept anything other than that, you will be called a racist. And whites hate to be called that worse than blacks hate being called the n-word.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Yeah :/

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: FyreByrd

We no longer have slavery. Do you really think that flag would be flying high all over the south if it represented racist hatred?! Of course not.

Southern blacks and whites share a history together and always will. It wasn't pretty at certain periods in time, but today we walk side by side and that flag does not represent racial hatred for all southerners, including many blacks. Some have usurped it and painted the entire spirit of the flag with their racial bigotry.

But, the Confederate flag to many southerners means standing up, speaking out, and embracing the spirit of the Declaration of Independence as I pointed out in the OP. It represents strength, valor, and a line in the sand.

And you know what? Take this to the bank: Our Federal Government KNOWS that. As I said, "kill the sygil and you weaken the spirit of that sygil".

That flag is not just about race, but that is what they want the whole country to believe and if you don't accept anything other than that, you will be called a racist. And whites hate to be called that worse than blacks hate being called the n-word.

Never said ALL South Carolinens. Just looking at the history is all - facts and timing appear to say something different.

Also - South Carolina had the most slaves, had the highest percentage of slave owners and started the Civil War.

Let's look at an analogy that has been brought up by many others. What would you say if the German Republic decided to enact a law saying the National Socialist Flag had to fly during the UN talks that produced the country of Isreal? Hmmm -

SARCASM AHEAD

Just a reminder of a the more gracious & refined culture of the time. Nothing racist - just cultural.

Folks piss and moan over a silly flag, thinking its symbolic of black oppression and racism.

Where's the outrage over one of the largest truly racist and oppressive practices on blacks TODAY? This is the abortion industry.
Planned Parenthood is murdering the African-American culture in the USA.

No, we'll squabble over a stupid flag.



a reply to: queenofswords

originally posted by: Ignatian
Folks piss and moan over a silly flag, thinking its symbolic of black oppression and racism.

Where's the outrage over one of the largest truly racist and oppressive practices on blacks TODAY? This is the abortion industry.
Planned Parenthood is murdering the African-American culture in the USA.

No, we'll squabble over a stupid flag.



a reply to: queenofswords

You are so SPOT ON! Just a cursory research of Margaret Sanger and her early associations and attitude is enough to validate exactly what you are saying. That would be a great thread for you to start.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: queenofswords If you were a slave, then your ancestors will see the flag as a symbol of oppression. But that is not how everyone sees it.

You literally just invalidated your entire thread with these sentences. The WHOLE point is because it is a representation of oppression from the past. Oppression that America is striving to put in the past. Just because a bunch of white people don't see it as oppressive (why would they anyways? THEIR ancestors weren't the ones oppressed) doesn't mean that it is an acceptable symbol to display. Way to miss the forest for the trees...

Our ancestors weren't the ones oppressed??? Are you kidding me? I'm Irish, so if you do a little research you'll find my ancestors were sold as slaves by the British and in many cases had it worse than slaves that came from Africa. Am I upset when I see a Union Jack flying? Not in the slightest. Only you can make yourself get angry about things and trying to remove a flag from history won't change the fact it still existed and what it represented either now or then.