What's with all the sudden attacks on the South?

a reply to: pfishy

And besides, like I said, racism isn't only extant down here. And it's considerably better than it was when I was growing up. That should be something to celebrate, not ignore for the purpose of furthering a stereotype and a very old punchline.

originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: TrappedPrincess

Well, I will happily agree that the work isn't complete. Just saying that progress has been and is being made. And as far as the flag goes, it's an antiquated chip that idiots carry on their shoulders. But to allow what that young psycho did to be reason to bash the entire South is just wrong.

That is well said and true.

originally posted by: Mugly
a reply to: LadyJae

the thing is i didnt say anything about truckers.
i was talking about trucker hats.
are truckers the only people that wear trucker hats?
i think not

Read the above quote again. Slowly, if you will. Do you still not make the association? It isn't about who wears the capa. Do you still not understand the sereotype created?

I was being facetious when I stated I was offended. It was a tongue-in-cheek response. The statement regarding stereotypes, however, was serious.

J

a reply to: luthier

The OP is about general bashing of the South, not celebrating the Confederacy. And how is a war memorial a celebration? DAVID64 was not advocating the celebration of the Confederacy in the least. He was stating that the media and politicians latched onto the flag issue to attempt to make themselves look better. (I'm assuming that 'he' is the proper term, given your user name. If not, my apologies).
You seem to be attempting to say that anyone who is disagreeing with your opinion is trying to defend slavery and human cruelty, IMO at least. Take a moment to consider what the others in this conversation are saying and maybe realize that they are pretty much agreeing that the 'might as well be Mein Kampf' Confederate flag coming down is just fine. Consistently trying to make the worst statement possible in response to everyone else is not going to convince anyone to see things your way.

a reply to: DAVID64

Right on. Star, flag.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: TrappedPrincess

Well, I will happily agree that the work isn't complete. Just saying that progress has been and is being made. And as far as the flag goes, it's an antiquated chip that idiots carry on their shoulders. But to allow what that young psycho did to be reason to bash the entire South is just wrong.

That is well said and true.

Thank you. And you posted that while I was typing my previous post. So my apologies for perceiving you to be overly argumentative.

a reply to: DAVID64

It's all part of the plan, which is to destroy the stronghold of conservatism from the southern US. the lefties will do everything in their power to get rid of any threat and taking away symbols and flags by branding it evil is just the first stepping stone in demonizing the southerners.

Maybe if people step back and think about it for a second first and realize there isn't much in the way of actual southern identity. Been there, grew up there. It's a farce from people who TRY to make themselves seem different, but only manage the accent & Southern Baptist churchiness, or come across as the folks from Deliverance as some level of distinction from the rest of the country.
Actually pretty pathetic when you think about it, because the US doesn't really have much in the way of culture to begin with outside the Cajuns & Creole, unless you want to count the Amish,too.

If you can't get through life without defining yourself with a flag from a war long ago, you pretty much admit you're failing at life anyway, so whatever. No really, whatever makes you feel speshul. Doesn't mean it needs to fly over government ish, but keep it for yourself on your property & bod.

What country in history has allowed the flag of a failed insurrection to be displayed? Wonder why racism still exists? If we need to redo the Civil War, so be it, but let us all agree to shun and ostracize racists, Confederate flags and KKK displays of ANY sort. Get rid of the symbols honoring those who owned slaves, those caused over 350,000 loyal American patriots to lose their lives. The civil war was not the "noble" cause of your fantasies.

a reply to: Nyiah

I think you missed the mark with that. Southern Hospitality is an actual thing. And Baptist Churchiness, really? Condescending insults won't change reality. (Speshul)
Yes, America is general has a less identifiable culture than many other places, but it does exist. And each region has it's own flavor of that culture.
I have been all over this country, and the culture is distinct everywhere you go. If you really need a culture to diminish, go yell at California or something.

a reply to: tombaccei

Never said it was noble. Just that the Confederacy saw it as a State's Rights issue. Passing along a fact does not mean I'm implying to be noble.

originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: luthier

The OP is about general bashing of the South, not celebrating the Confederacy. And how is a war memorial a celebration? DAVID64 was not advocating the celebration of the Confederacy in the least. He was stating that the media and politicians latched onto the flag issue to attempt to make themselves look better. (I'm assuming that 'he' is the proper term, given your user name. If not, my apologies).
You seem to be attempting to say that anyone who is disagreeing with your opinion is trying to defend slavery and human cruelty, IMO at least. Take a moment to consider what the others in this conversation are saying and maybe realize that they are pretty much agreeing that the 'might as well be Mein Kampf' Confederate flag coming down is just fine. Consistently trying to make the worst statement possible in response to everyone else is not going to convince anyone to see things your way.

I understand. I agree it belongs in a war memorial not flying outside at the capital they removed it from the building but it still is readily visible without going to a war memorial.

College campuses still have Robert e lee and Jeff Davis statues. Schools are still named after civil war heroes. Those are not war memorials. They aren't in history buildings nor were these universities running during or before the civil war.

I live in the south. I love southern people. However, I don't like naming buildings and flying these flags in public. When you name a building after someone it is in tribute to them. When you fly a flag it is in recognition of the ideas it symbolizes not just the good ones but all of them. Especially to the victims.

a reply to: luthier

Actually, it was flying over the Confederate Soldiers Memorial, which is located on the grounds of the State House.
And I agree with naming buildings and displaying statues. But it's more than that. It also a deridement of the south in general. And building names have been changed. Not all of them, but it's getting there. Allowing a natural pace to cultural change means it will be more pervasive and stronger. Trying to force it just causes more resistance.

originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: tombaccei

Never said it was noble. Just that the Confederacy saw it as a State's Rights issue. Passing along a fact does not mean I'm implying to be noble.

Without being a jerk it doesn't matter though. It wasn't a states rights issue. The very philosophy that founded the us was against slavery (even though the forefathers owned slaves Locke abhorred the idea of slavery). It is impossible to reconcile the overlying ideas of the constitution and slavery. There were massive contradictions within the constitution even back then that were finally seen as the logical fallacies they were. Also insurrection is not a valid form of solving states rights issues. They had the power to try and vote, when they were philosophically loosing the battle across the country they choose to rebel. That's not the same as federal intervention. The fallacy was that slaves were not human or men where as if they were they would be protected by the constitution.

a reply to: pfishy

Nah, I didn't miss the mark at all, southern hospitality is quite the pervasive myth. Remember, I not only grew up in FL, but also visited the other southern states. There's an all-encompassing underlying atmosphere in the south of desperately trying to find a dividing line between north & south, and they haven't found it yet outside of bolstering a few stereotypes & claims of food making the difference. Fried okra, grits & sugar-laden tea doesn't exactly make a culture.

If my last post actually got under your skin, then something rang true for you in it. I have no problems pointing out the flaws in what is professed to be southern cultural identify, because having spent a quarter century living & experiencing the south, it ain't there. Trying to wrap oneself in the Confederate flag and claiming "It's who we are!" is quite simply admitting that. Pretty empty attempt at using a thing to use as an example of culture if you ask me.

originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: luthier

Actually, it was flying over the Confederate Soldiers Memorial, which is located on the grounds of the State House.
And I agree with naming buildings and displaying statues. But it's more than that. It also a deridement of the south in general. And building names have been changed. Not all of them, but it's getting there. Allowing a natural pace to cultural change means it will be more pervasive and stronger. Trying to force it just causes more resistance.

I agree with a lot of that. However, the flag was flying high not as a backdrop or a stone cutting... you can easily see it passing by. (we are currently moving from Texas to Columbia, sc). I think the fact it was on top of the capital and they took it down was a step but also showed what it real intention is. Also the last gubernatorial race did have this fight as theme in sc. The current pandering gov was completely against taking it down. So yeah I am well aware these politicians are playing games trying to one up each other on who is less racist.

I don't believe them at all. What I do care about is when this stuff is hopefully gone in the next few years. I don't think anyone will remember or care who or why it was done. They just wont have to explain to their sons and daughters why its ok to go to a school named after an oppressor or drive by a symbol that enslaved their ancestors that appears or can be conceived as to be in recognition of those ideas

The liberal media (that is, everyone except faux news right, LOL) is attacking the South and flag of Dixie as a proxy to their real aim of gun confiscation. Sure sure they use the ruse "common sense" gun control but what they mean is confiscation. Knowing that after even the tragedy of Sandy Hook, America for the most part did not buy into their BS reasoning, or attempt to take away our rights, they sure as heck know 9 dead blacks in S.C. isn't going to lead to any new legislation. So hence they attack the South, the Flag, and the ideology by proxy, hoping some of their childish rantings and behavior might bring their mommies along to tell them they win, they get a prize too because even if they didn't win they tried and are all special.

i would be interested in knowing how many people with their opinions of the south and how it is have actually lived there.
i grew up in florida. my mother grew up in florida.

i have seen my share of people with their confederate gear and theyre always the same types.

oh well

there is more to the south than what you see on huff po

let me edit and say the city i grew up in was still very racially divided.

central avenue was the divider. south of central ave was all black. north of central ave was all white.
this was in the 80's. i was there for vacation in march and it is still like that.

black kids got bussed to school from the south side(probably 15 miles 1 way) to attend school on the north side. so there was a small portion of black kids in my school. that wasnt the strange thing for the kids. then we didnt understand what the hell was up.

all i knew is i had black friends that i would not get to see till the next school day. then when summer break was on, people in the north side didnt see a black face till school was back in.
im serious about this.

even at the malls. go to a mall on the north side and you would be hard pressed to find a black person.
be hard pressed to find a white person on the south side.

it was like that in the 60's when my mom was coming up.
it was like that in the 80's when i came up and its still like that.

so i move north as i got older and it was nothing like that.
i had black neighbors for the first time in my life. i could see the same people after work.

thats just not how it was down in florida.

now im not saying all of florida is like that. im not saying all of the south is like that.
im saying there are still places today in this country where it is very clearly racially segregated.

i think a lot of people do have southern pride though i dont know why....im from the south and i dont feel it.

i know a lot of people identify with the rebel flag if thats the right word.
the thing is though the people that fly that color is more often than not the same type.

make of that what you will.

if you have never lived in an area like that you dont really know

a reply to: Mugly

I spent 3 years living in a small town in northern Mississippi. I was also born in Charleston, SC, have friends of the family there and visit the town quite regularly. I was also stationed in Ft. Sill, OK for 3 years while in the Army which was about a 45 minute drive from Witchita Falls, TX. Is that enough experience with the south?

Reply to Pfishy

The swastika of Nazi use was a Sanskrit symbol for good fortune or well being. In fact more people in the world today still see it as such. But in those countries devastated by the holocaust and Nazi tyranny, it is as a vile and threatening symbol, and as such it is banned and outlawed in most of the western world. Even where "legal" it's open display is despised as are those who desplay it. So, you see, it is the victims of such symbols who have the most salient view of their meanings. Why can't all of you in the south, recognize that, and as a token of respect and healing understand that. The healing will only really begin when KKK hoods and the "battle flag of the confederacy" are reviled by anyone seeking to really see an end to prejudice and intimidation of our black countrymen.