Homosexuality - A different Perspective

originally posted by: DISRAELI
These were my comments in a thread of my own, relating to 1 Corinthians ch6;

Our passage includes (vv9-10) a list of the kind of behaviour which means that people will not “inherit the kingdom of heaven”.

The OP has not highlighted the fact that the list includes homosexual behaviour.

I was not ignoring that verse.

I dont agree with the interpretation of 1st Corinthians 6 that includes homosexuality.

The words in Greek are "Effeminate" and "arsenokoitai" and the definition of these words are in question. You can google these words and you will find disagreement.

From all my reading I believe "Effeminate" condemns, feminine men, homosexual men who seduce straight men.

And arsenokoitai, temple prostitution.

From the greek historians we know both of these practices were prevalent. And both are clearly sin.

Paul only mentions homosexuals in Romans, and he is clearly implying that the person committing the act is knowingly sinning.

This cannot be the case for someone who says they were born attracted to the same sex. The homosexual man does not believe he is acting against his nature.

How can you condemn a man whose own mind does not condemn him?

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

The Heavenly Father did not speak against Homosexuality in The New Testament, unless you believe Paul is God now.

I won't get into the Paul thing as I think that is a ridiculous argument. But homosexuality as a sin is also confirmed by Jude the brother of James, both of who are half-brothers of Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:7 "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surroundinties, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, 4 serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire."

And of course there is this one from the big G himself:

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

The Leviticus references both that one and 18:22 are not clear. In the original Hebrew, they seem to refer to something much more specific than "all homosexual sex acts". Perhaps it refers to a form of prostitution performed in the temple. It's hard to determine.

The language is much less clear than other sexual prohibitions contained in Leviticus.

In my opinion, if God wanted this to be such a big deal, he would have been much clearer. It would be in the ten commandments. Jesus would have said something about it. And so on.

Jesus makes very specific statements about wealth and taxes. But nada about homosexuality.

And the OT God makes some unclear statements in largely ignored sections of the the OT. The types of animal sacrifices Leviticus proscribes haven't been practiced by Jews or Christians for almost two thousand years, for example.

It seems very clearly that it isn't an important issue to God.

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

The Heavenly Father did not speak against Homosexuality in The New Testament, unless you believe Paul is God now.

I won't get into the Paul thing as I think that is a ridiculous argument. But homosexuality as a sin is also confirmed by Jude the brother of James, both of who are half-brothers of Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:7 "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surroundinties, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, 4 serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire."

And of course there is this one from the big G himself:

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

The Leviticus references both that one and 18:22 are not clear. In the original Hebrew, they seem to refer to something much more specific than "all homosexual sex acts". Perhaps it refers to a form of prostitution performed in the temple. It's hard to determine.

The language is much less clear than other sexual prohibitions contained in Leviticus.

In my opinion, if God wanted this to be such a big deal, he would have been much clearer. It would be in the ten commandments. Jesus would have said something about it. And so on.

Jesus makes very specific statements about wealth and taxes. But nada about homosexuality.

And the OT God makes some unclear statements in largely ignored sections of the the OT. The types of animal sacrifices Leviticus proscribes haven't been practiced by Jews or Christians for almost two thousand years, for example.

It seems very clearly that it isn't an important issue to God.

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

The Heavenly Father did not speak against Homosexuality in The New Testament, unless you believe Paul is God now.

I won't get into the Paul thing as I think that is a ridiculous argument. But homosexuality as a sin is also confirmed by Jude the brother of James, both of who are half-brothers of Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:7 "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surroundinties, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, 4 serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire."

And of course there is this one from the big G himself:

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

The Leviticus references both that one and 18:22 are not clear. In the original Hebrew, they seem to refer to something much more specific than "all homosexual sex acts". Perhaps it refers to a form of prostitution performed in the temple. It's hard to determine.

The language is much less clear than other sexual prohibitions contained in Leviticus.

In my opinion, if God wanted this to be such a big deal, he would have been much clearer. It would be in the ten commandments. Jesus would have said something about it. And so on.

Jesus makes very specific statements about wealth and taxes. But nada about homosexuality.

And the OT God makes some unclear statements in largely ignored sections of the the OT. The types of animal sacrifices Leviticus proscribes haven't been practiced by Jews or Christians for almost two thousand years, for example.

It seems very clearly that it isn't an important issue to God.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
I was not ignoring that verse.

I should explain that "the OP" in that quoted passage meant my own opening post in the thread from which that post was directly copied. It wasn't referring to you.

originally posted by: Moresby

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

The Heavenly Father did not speak against Homosexuality in The New Testament, unless you believe Paul is God now.

I won't get into the Paul thing as I think that is a ridiculous argument. But homosexuality as a sin is also confirmed by Jude the brother of James, both of who are half-brothers of Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:7 "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surroundinties, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, 4 serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire."

And of course there is this one from the big G himself:

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

The Leviticus references both that one and 18:22 are not clear. In the original Hebrew, they seem to refer to something much more specific than "all homosexual sex acts". Perhaps it refers to a form of prostitution performed in the temple. It's hard to determine.

The language is much less clear than other sexual prohibitions contained in Leviticus.

In my opinion, if God wanted this to be such a big deal, he would have been much clearer. It would be in the ten commandments. Jesus would have said something about it. And so on.

Jesus makes very specific statements about wealth and taxes. But nada about homosexuality.

And the OT God makes some unclear statements in largely ignored sections of the the OT. The types of animal sacrifices Leviticus proscribes haven't been practiced by Jews or Christians for almost two thousand years, for example.

It seems very clearly that it isn't an important issue to God.

Some things dont need to be repeated because its common knowledge. Jesus did not need to address homosexuality , why would he? Eveyone already knew that such behavior was frowned upon in the eyes of God. But he did bring up Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of wickedness, which shows that he did not agree with the sin that was committed there.

We all know why S & G was destroyed, the homosexual behavior was running wild. Every man in town, young and old went to Lots house with only one agenda. To have sex with the two men who were there. If it wasn't a big deal then why destroy the city? Clearly God had had enough of what was going on there.

Jesus agrees that the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah were wicked, one of those sins was homosexuality. Its clear that both Jesus and God are against such behavior.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

It depends on the God though, because the name God is used for many different religions, from Christianity to Greek etc. and in some cases God and Goddesses. so maybe not the "God" you describe, but the God they believe in

Your right, my views are from a Biblical perspective. I don't expect someone who doesn't believe in it to agree. All I'm saying is that the Bible is against such behavior, the evidence for that is overwhelming. Yet some choose to ignore it. They want the Bible to mean what they want it to mean. Or for some, since he did'nt mention anything specific then it must be ok. Its ridiculous, believe in whatever god u want that allows such behavior. But the God of the Bible is against it.

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

But do "You" think it's wrong, or just because you are told to think it's wrong?

i understand beliefs systems, i don't understand discrimination and hateful remarks(i'm not saying you specifically) i also don't get trying to control peoples rights and freedoms quoting the Bible when it's a personal belief system not a "Rule Book" for everyone

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

But do "You" think it's wrong, or just because you are told to think it's wrong?

i understand beliefs systems, i don't understand discrimination and hateful remarks(i'm not saying you specifically) i also don't get trying to control peoples rights and freedoms quoting the Bible when it's a personal belief system not a "Rule Book" for everyone

I'll be honest and say that i think it's wrong. Its against our own nature. Like every thing else on earh in order to remain you have to be able to reproduce, otherwise you become extinct.

I want to type more but I'm on ps4 now and it taking forever.

a reply to: Darth_Prime

It is easy for people who are not gay to condemn those that are. They fail to realize, no one chooses who their eyes are attracted to.

I am straight but not all women are attractive to me. My eyes do not see men as sexually attractive. I don't consciously decide who is attractive. It's quite simple some women are attractive to me and some are not.

Since I cannot choose, then I must accept that my homosexual brothers are not lying.

Psychology confirms that some peole are born with same sex attractions. Since homosexuals say it is not a choice we should stop calling them liars and accept them as our brothers.

Your intentions are well meant, but the first problem is the 'burn with desire' bit. It's not some stupid overpowering, debilitating thing that takes over your life. Being gay is no different to being straight, except we are attracted to members of the same sex.

We can and do fall in love, we can and do have meaningful relationships and we contribute to greater society. If our lives are chaotic, it is because of fellow human beings trying to stop us from being who we are.

It really is possible to find peace and purpose as a gay person.

originally posted by: markosity1973
Your intentions are well meant, but the first problem is the 'burn with desire' bit. It's not some stupid overpowering, debilitating thing that takes over your life. Being gay is no different to being straight, except we are attracted to members of the same sex.

We can and do fall in love, we can and do have meaningful relationships and we contribute to greater society. If our lives are chaotic, it is because of fellow human beings trying to stop us from being who we are.

It really is possible to find peace and purpose as a gay person.

I am not saying that gay men "burn with desire" for each other.

I am saying that a straight man that tries gay sex, will burn with lust even though he knows his lust is wrong.

It is not wrong for two gay men.

If a straight man has sex with a man, he is prone to become addicted to something he is ashamed of.

a reply to: Isurrender73

If a straight man has sex with a man he will become obsessed with having sex with a man?

If a straight man is obsessed with having sex with men, then he is not really straight, but bisexual. Some people are bisexual but don't realize until they are with the same sex, maybe this is why some people don't want homosexuality to be acceptable in society, because some bisexual people may find out that they were bisexual and not straight.

Some people live to condemn others so that they can feel better about themselves. Condemning others makes them feel superior to the people they condemn, because they feel like they are doing something "righteous" for God, no matter how unkind or unloving or harmful they are.


If people actually "condemn not", there would be more Acceptance in the world and less killing and wars and harming others.

a reply to: Isurrender73

I get what you're trying to say here.

Any form of adultery (as in cheating on your partner) is wrong. I don't see how which gender one cheats with makes the wrong any greater or lesser though

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: Isurrender73

If a straight man has sex with a man he will become obsessed with having sex with a man?

The scriptures say that when a straight man tries gay sex, they become addicted to it.

They either justify it and become addicted or they are addicted in shame.

It's psychological. It really isn't that complicated.

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: Isurrender73

I get what you're trying to say here.

Any form of adultery (as in cheating on your partner) is wrong. I don't see how which gender one cheats with makes the wrong any greater or lesser though

If you know you are not attracted to the same sex, but pursue the same sex purely out of lust, you have broken the bond of sex and attraction. You become addicted to sex appart from attraction.

This separation between sex and attraction may make it more difficult to form emotional bonds with a sexual partner.

You should not go against your own nature sexually.

Personally I don't associate with bi-sexuality. I don't understand why sex is so important that we can't pick one partner.

It is my opinion that Bi-sexuality is the product of an over sexed society, and should not be seen as equal to homosexuality.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Bisexuality is a real thing, it's not a "Sex addict" or someone who can't decide, they genuinely are attracted to both sexes.

Why would a straight person have sex with the same sex if he didn't already feel attracted to them? and why would a scripture single that out?

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: Isurrender73

Bisexuality is a real thing, it's not a "Sex addict" or someone who can't decide, they genuinely are attracted to both sexes.

Why would a straight person have sex with the same sex if he didn't already feel attracted to them? and why would a scripture single that out?

I know this may sound crazy, but their are some who have sex with those they are not attracted to and call themselves "sexually enlightened". This is a practice that dates back to at least Ancient Greece.

You have to understand Paul was talking to people about what was happening 2000 years ago. How prevalent this ideology is today? I am uncertain.

originally posted by: Isurrender73


The scriptures say that when a straight man tries gay sex, they become addicted to it.

They either justify it and become addicted or they are addicted in shame.

It's psychological. It really isn't that complicated.

Where in the bible does it say that?

Unfortunately your theories come unstuck very quickly right about the bit you say if a straight man tries gay sex he becomes addicted.

Firstly, if a straight man is attracted to another man, then he is bisexual. He can't help it any more than a gay or straight man can help the fact they are attracted to one gender only.

If he is truly straight he will be repulsed and quite likely psychologically damaged by his sexual experience. He is not going to ever want to do it ever again. Lots of gay men have slept with women because they felt pressured into it and the general consensus among them is that was not exactly a pleasurable experience. I myself have never slept with a woman. If I reverse your theory, I should get addicted and become a womaniser if I slept with a lady. Only problem is that the very thought of sexual relations with a woman creeps me out (sorry ladies, no offense intended)

In truth sexual addiction affect all three orientations. Look at Charile Sheen as a straight example for instance - a total manwhore and womaniser. Hugh Heffner and his playboy legacy is the epitome of heterosexual sex addiction. Gays have their sex clubs and bi men can seem to sleep with anyone who pays them attention.

Bisexual men however can and do have committed relationships with a single gender. I had a short relationship with a bi-guy. He was really sweet, loving and faithful. It ended because I went back to my ex i.e. not his fault at all and a decision I sometimes regret.

He explained his sexuality to me like this; He was in love with my personality, not my genitalia. He admitted he fantasised over both genders, but in action, sexually he only wanted to be with me. If any man or woman here can say they have honestly ever fantasised over their partner and their partner alone, I will recommend them to Pope Francis for sainthood.

Because he was open and honest about it with me, I actually felt extra special because he really did choose to be with me, out of all the options on both side of the fence. I've also met bi men who love their wives very much. They admit they are attracted to men, but would never sleep with them because their wife means too much to them. I believe the term we are looking for is monogamy and these men are the champions of the cause, not demons.

So, no you can't explain this away as a sexual addiction for straight men or a problem with being bisexual.