Other Countries Change Their Gun Laws After Mass Shootings. Why Not America?

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: Ksihkehe
Fair point. I now have relieved myself of of the position of spokesperson of the universe. Why stoop to those levels? Your better than that. It's a debate and I am giving you my perspective, looking in from the outside.

And yes we don't understand what you lot are going through because we abolished guns long time ago, and can't relate to the divide created with police brutality/mass shootings. I would say the gun problem created the culture problem. Different derivatives..

I've not stooped. I've just told you the reality.

The violence problem has existed since the early days of man. Our particular problem is an escalation of violence. The question I asked has not been answered. Given the conditions in many other countries why is this an issue for somebody not living here? Genocide is happening. Why does this "problem" make it to the top tier?

originally posted by: Mianeye
a reply to: Klassified

It's a matter of culture

Exactly. It's not all about the guns.

a reply to: rossacus

Why is it a predicament to think that I have the right to own a firearm?

Additionally, the LEO problem in this country has its roots in more than guns. Let me repeat this: a gun is a tool. It has no power in and of itself.

The police issue comes from a proliferation of laws that necessitate more and more police/citizen interactions butting heads with a citizenry that is becoming increasingly debauched and disrespectful of anyone and everyone. You tell me that when you add laws that compel an officer to attempt to arrest you for selling single cigarettes in the street corner with people who will attack each other in the aisles of Walmart that you are set up for good times.

Guns are the least of the trouble.

a reply to: SubTruth
Sorry but I'm fully aware I have given up my freedoms. I did not mean to imply I was talking about freedom. Anyone with a computer with Internet access gave up their freedom a long ago. I was talking about safety, the peace of mind knowing that if I was endangered, the person endangering me will be caught (unlikely prosecuted but different subject). That weeks after a criminal act they could trace his every movement. The amount of terrorist plots halted in recent months is a direct result of these "freedoms" we sacraficed. For that I am incredibly grateful. Those who are victims of criminal acts , I feel, would in hindsight prefer a system that can trace the people, if they didn't before.

This concept of freedom is amazing though. You will never hear the word freedom being used in any media outlets, we don't feel out freedom is ever in jeopardy, yet I read it a thousand times a day on ATS. The beauty of culture I suppose.

a reply to: Willtell

To be honest, if we make it that easy to remove guns then we only encourage people who want guns removed to do horrible things trying to make it so. Port Arthur smacks completely of a psyop meant to remove guns from Australia. Seeing Port Arthur has made me 100% against allowing singular events to mandate drastic change. Change born out of emotional response.

Because lets face it: Alaskans would become quick work for bears. Texans would quickly see a boom in big cat populations. America is still very wild, still very much a frontier in a lot of ways. And to those of us who didn't hold up in the cities, being without firearms is just downright deadly.

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: SubTruth
Sorry but I'm fully aware I have given up my freedoms. I did not mean to imply I was talking about freedom. Anyone with a computer with Internet access gave up their freedom a long ago. I was talking about safety, the peace of mind knowing that if I was endangered, the person endangering me will be caught (unlikely prosecuted but different subject).

So that must be a comfort to you that if someone murders your they will catch him.

I'd rather be able to prevent myself from being murdered in the first place, thanks.

a reply to: ketsuko

In relation to your culture. There was more sentences in that post. This concept of it is my right to have a gun has helped set america on the current path they are on. This right creates fear that if i dont have a gun, others will, therefore i must. Its hard to diffuse a situation of differing perspectives when two people have guns. Some countries use violence, some use dialogue. An opinion people, just an opinion.

Just to make it clear, if I was in america, I would want a gun. Does not stop me from objectively seeing the gun culture as a direct influence on American society.

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: DeepImpactX

Please research my other posts before telling me what I don't know. I not only know, I know , who, what, when, why, and how.

Don't believe me. It phases me not. Nor does it change a thing.

Nice to know.

a reply to: Willtell

The gun laws in the United States should be changed in my opinion...but unfortunately things may not change for a much longer time.

I know having stricter gun laws won't solve all the gun problems in America...but I do have hope that there would be some improvements.

Of course there is always the problems of guns being sold on the black market...and also family and friends etc. that know legal responsible gun owners may somehow obtain one of their guns and go out and commit a criminal act.

It is really hard to know who may be the next murdering fool; many of them seemed to others to be normal; they looked normal, they acted normal...and then one day bam! they go murdering crazy.

WARNING: Don't be lulled into complacency...the everyday habits you have of going where you go... and doing what you do...watch your back...be more aware...look around even if you are familiar with your surroundings.

a reply to: Willtell

When Obama used drones in Pakistan to kill hundreds of children, we didn't hear him complain about guns then, just when someone other than himself uses guns to cause harm. Do you give Obama a free pass on killing with guns and bombs? If it is going to apply to all, then our dear leader should also follow suit. Obama even bragged about being good at using those drones to kill people with. And you have the gall to quote him saying how awful guns are?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: rossacus

Why is it a predicament to think that I have the right to own a firearm?

Additionally, the LEO problem in this country has its roots in more than guns. Let me repeat this: a gun is a tool. It has no power in and of itself.

The police issue comes from a proliferation of laws that necessitate more and more police/citizen interactions butting heads with a citizenry that is becoming increasingly debauched and disrespectful of anyone and everyone. You tell me that when you add laws that compel an officer to attempt to arrest you for selling single cigarettes in the street corner with people who will attack each other in the aisles of Walmart that you are set up for good times.

Guns are the least of the trouble.

On the mark again. Guns are not the issue in this country. Although this admin (and I jokingly call it that) seems to think so. Our problem is the evil people.If it wasnt guns it would be knives , chains , sticks , magazines , pencils ,forks , you name it. Lets put the blame where it goes, on the people.Evil people do evil things. The possibility their victim may have a firearm as well does head off some...

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: ketsuko

In relation to your culture. There was more sentences in that post. This concept of it is my right to have a gun has helped set america on the current path they are on. This right creates fear that if i dont have a gun, others will, therefore i must. Its hard to diffuse a situation of differing perspectives when two people have guns. Some countries use violence, some use dialogue. An opinion people, just an opinion.

Just to make it clear, if I was in america, I would want a gun. Does not stop me from objectively seeing the gun culture as a direct influence on American society.

So says someone who doesn't live here.

I do, and I don't want a gun. I do want the right to own one though. I have several relatives who own guns. For one, it's a hunting tool. For my folks, it's a tool of living in the country -- you never know when a rabid or injured or other sort of dangerous critter will put in an appearance. Funny how animal control does not do country runs, so you have to handle it yourself. Of course, I understand how the rabies thing goes past you. That's a luxury of island living.

And gun culture is a ridiculous term.

Any "gun culture" goes more with a criminal sub-culture, and they would have guns even if the rest of us outlawed them.

a reply to: ketsuko
Please stop saying this people. Do you all sleep with one eye open. Do you constantly look behind you in preparation for an attack? Stop assuming that because you carry a gun that no one can get the drop on you. That is a terrible mentality and deluded
To think you are constantly aware of other people's intentions. If you ever need a gun, it's often when you are under threat from another gun. The very fact you feel you need the gun suggests that they are 1 step ahead of you (gun, knife, whatever). They have the higher ground.

This is why I'm suggesting that gun culture has helped dictate societies culture, this persons post being a great example of the mentality of the people that wield these weapons. You are human, with the same flaws as all of us. Yet most don't have an immortal complex.

a reply to: rossacus

something you should know: there is no "American society". We are a very large, vast nation made up of just about every culture in the world. Where I live is nothing at all like New York, Philadelphia, DC, and Boston. Nor are we like Chicago, LA, Miami, Seattle....

I sit 5 hours from Dallas, and we aren't anything like them, either. Mostly because we are rural.

But it takes the broadest brush on the planet to see America as a singular "culture" or "society".

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

It appears all pro rhetoric, soundbites and propaganda but not logical, rational reality.

...and what, according to your wisdom, is logical, rational reality?

a reply to: rossacus

What are you on about?

I am not constantly afraid of being attacked. I simply want to know I could have a gun if I felt I needed one for any reason.

You must be the most complacent sheep ever. Do you never think that perhaps society might fall apart? Do you never think you might have to provide food for you and yours?

And, of course, I see you skipped right over the very real and utilitarian reasons why my folks have their shotgun which has nothing at all to do with fear of attack from someone else with a gun.

I'm gonna sum up what I've read so far from other posts.countering my opinion
1) evil people kill people
2) I have a gun to protect myself from guns
3) it's just a tool (love that one)
4) criminals will still have them if we get rid
5) government created "choas".

1) won't even go there
2) I won't go there
3) tasers or non lethal weapons could be put in the hands of a psycho and he WILL cause less damage
4) really? I didn't realise criminals broke the law.
5)true but a bit to deep.

When I read statements like these I can't highlight enough how terrible some of these arguments are for why guns are needed. I would just be saying the same stuff in previous posts if I were to evaluate these perspectives. Sorry for the simplistic responses ( no offense to individuals) but this is what I see, a few wish to enlighten me on more pressing "contributing factors" to the the culture of America, which I appreciate alot. I feel I had to put it in this form to showcase the mentality I am debating with (not aimed at those who challenged me on a debate level). To you it may be the norm, but I will speak on behalf of the whole galaxy as suggested and tell you this is not the norm in other civilised countries. Your president addressed this and was correct.

a reply to: DeepImpactX

And to make it easier...my avatar is me. I hide from no one.

a reply to: rossacus

Mr. Obama represents you more than us. He was elected by them, not us. Come try to take our guns and then you will actually meet US. We are a friendly nation.

originally posted by: rossacus
I'm gonna sum up what I've read so far from other posts.countering my opinion
1) evil people kill people
2) I have a gun to protect myself from guns
3) it's just a tool (love that one)
4) criminals will still have them if we get rid
5) government created "choas".

1) won't even go there
2) I won't go there
3) tasers or non lethal weapons could be put in the hands of a psycho and he WILL cause less damage
4) really? I didn't realise criminals broke the law.
5)true but a bit to deep.

When I read statements like these I can't highlight enough how terrible some of these arguments are for why guns are needed. I would just be saying the same stuff in previous posts if I were to evaluate these perspectives. Sorry for the simplistic responses ( no offense to individuals) but this is what I see, a few wish to enlighten me on more pressing "contributing factors" to the the culture of America, which I appreciate alot. I feel I had to put it in this form to showcase the mentality I am debating with (not aimed at those who challenged me on a debate level). To you it may be the norm, but I will speak on behalf of the whole galaxy as suggested and tell you this is not the norm in other civilised countries. Your president addressed this and was correct.

So, when faced with a rabid animal, you want to use a taser on it?

Then realize that it will die and you just didn't kill it. Also understand that animal control does not come out into the country, so you tazed it bro and it's just going to get up, wander off, suffer some more and likely infect other animals while it does so. But, oh, you didn't get bitten.

This is why farmers have guns. That and sometimes, they don't want to wait for the on-call vet to put an animal down. It's just cruel to make it wait that long. Or you have a nuisance animal in your attic tearing the place apart, causing tens of thousands in damages to your house. Or you have a predator threatening either your livestock or your pets or your children.