The Lesson from South Carolina

Brilliant OP Redneck.

I would also like to echo a little of what BenevolentHeretic mentioned.

Forgiveness is sometimes more for ourselves than it is the offender.

Forgiving means something that was done was bad. It caused pain. It was unjust. It was not fair.

To forgive means we are willing to let go of that offense and move past it. It does not mean that kid should not pay the consequences for his actions. It also does not mean we must put ourselves in a position again to be hurt that way.

My heart and prayers go out to the families and loved ones of those who perished.

I beg to differ with the OP and others.

This guy planned this whole thing and it was engineered to cause a stir and to make himself some kind of anti-hero for racist idiots everywhere. Secondary in his evil mind was the lives that he took.

It would be a different bloody story if he was black and the churchgoers were white. The only reason that bastard is till breathing is his skin color.

That is not what I disagree with the most though. It's the meek 'I forgive him' nonsense of the victims families. This is indicative of what a serious societal mental health issue religion is.

The willingness to accept and forgive atrocities and violence is not admirable or noble. It's #ing stupid brainwashed servile horse # that could only come from the deluded minds of religious morons.

This is exactly why the forces of evil constantly trample over normal decent people. No guts, no backbone, no courage, no desire to rock the boat, and as this lot illustrate, not even the ability to get angry at murdering scum.

Do you forgive Charles Manson? Adolf Hitler? Do you #. But these idiots would probably say yes if you asked them.

It bugs me that this #er is being humanised and 'forgiven' in some way, just because he didnt shoot himself like these #s usually do.

Someone hit the nail on the head in another thread. This will change nothing. For better or worse.


Maybe it's time to ditch all this religious nonsense. Death has always surrounded it. The disgusting Islamic death cult that calls itself a religion now threatens the stability and freedom of an entire continent.

Maybe if we just #ing forgive them they will stop? I'm sure ANY kind of intervention by the US at this point in election year would be instantly branded as 'Obama Warmongering' instead of the 'Obama is doing nothing' #e we are currently listening to.

Those infantile bastards on Capitol Hill will keep their playground slagging match going long after the need for unity and action has passed.

We are surrounded by idiots. Maybe we should elect one to fix it all. Trumpet couldn't make it much worse I reckon. at least he seems to be a little pro-active and with some fire in him.

I forget what movie it was where someone said 'sometimes the stupidest plans work the best' or The A team where somebody says 'Hannibal's plans never work right, they just work.'

We should vote Trump in just to teach those idiots a lesson. Besides the CIA will murder him within 15 minutes

a reply to: angus1745

While I resonate with some of your post, what course of action could be taken by the families after he's taken into custody? Should they use him as some poster child for the white race? I'm not religious in the slightest, but I do understand the community/cult it breeds, making it easier to cope when there is so much love and support.

What exactly should they stand up for and what in your opinion would be achieved by doing so? As far as I see it, this is one kid who does not represent any race or specific train of thought and should be treated as a single incident instead of representing the way an entire country feels about black people.

Hate has no power in the hearts and minds of those who forgive. Forgiveness strengthens love and renders hate moot. Those whom demonstrate it, such as the ones being discussed, understand that forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice, separating ones self from the clutches of hate and giving all power over to love.

I don't know what I would do in that circumstance; however, I would only hope I had the strength and resolve these individuals exemplified.

a reply to: angus1745

Someone must have hurt you real bad to have all that rage inside.

Darynn Roof will most likely die. He has admitted killing nine people with a deadly weapon in a church based on their skin color. That's mass, premeditated, aggravated murder with a deadly weapon, and also falls under the hate crime statute. In South Carolina, as I understand it, that's almost a guarantee of the death penalty.

But he won't just die. First he'll sit there for years, with no one but his own demons to haunt him. One of those demons is that he failed. He wasn't just trying to kill black people; he was after some sort of revenge for some perceived wrong that he thought all black people did to him. He wanted to scare black people, he wanted to terrorize black people, he wanted to force black people to bow down in fear to him.

He didn't get those things.

He failed.

Now he gets to live not just with the fact that he failed, but that he'll never get another chance to try again. He'll never again taste freedom. He'll never again get to plot revenge. He'll never again see those he cares about... his family, his friends. He was picked up on his way to Nashville, because he "had never been there." Now he never will be, nor will he get to go anywhere else. He's done.

And I won't lose a minute's sleep over the fact that he will endure this torment, or that he will in all likelihod die at the hands of the State. He deserves it, and more. That's justice, at least as close as we can get. I also won't lose a minute's sleep hating him.

Forgiveness does not deny justice. It's not about Darynn Roof. It's about those good people who refuse to let him win. They refused to let him sit out those years on Death Row satisfied that he had done what he wanted. They refused to hate white people because one white guy shot up their church. They refused to let this pain fester and twist them from inside. And by doing so, they're no longer victims.

Strength doesn't come from muscles. True strength comes from inside. The people in that church are stronger than the strongest athlete.

Many years ago, there was a feud between the Hatfields and McCoys in Kentucky and West Virginia. It was called a "feud" because it was between two families; had it been between two countries it would have been called a "war." It lasted for generations, with each side killing the other at every chance. When it was finally over, no one could even remember that it all started over a dispute over a pig. All they could remember was hating the other side.

That wasn't strength, my friend. That was foolishness.

I hope you can find peace before it's too late.

TheRedneck

To say we need love to combat hate is fine but we first need to learn how to love.


And that means exercising the building blocks of love upon society



It’s no coincidence that the 3 major Western religions put charity at the forefront of their faith.


There are hundreds of versus in the Bible that command people to charity and tending to the poor

in Islam Charity is one of the pillars of faith


Judaism is built on charity


A great part of our society the GOP don’t give a dam about the poor and only love themselves


And please spar me the rhetoric about politics and left/right paradigm crap


So to this op… love is just a word


America needs to learn how to love (particularly the GOP and conservative mentality of LOVE OF SELF)


And that is doing some of what love is made up of:


Charity
Peace
Tolerance
Intelligence
Mercy
Compassion
Understanding
Unity
Justice
Freedom

For all

Love should start with this:

Mitt Romney: ‘Take Down The Confederate Flag’

Following the brutal murder of nine people at a historic black church in South Carolina, many have wondered why the Confederate flag — a symbol of racial segregation — has continued to stand outside of the state Capitol building.
One of those people is Mitt Romney.
On Saturday, the former Republican presidential candidate called for the removal of the Confederate flag from the front of the South Carolina State House, in order to honor the nine black victims of Wednesday’s shooting. “To many, it is a symbol of racial hatred,” the former GOP presidential candidate tweeted on Saturday

It's sad that there is still so many lost kids here. Raised without love, respect.

He should ask himself "WHAT DID THAT CHANGED?"


RIP for victims.

S and F brother.

Good to see you! Your post shows how I wish most people would react to his tragedy.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Nice to see you too Zazz.

If one person can read this thread and decide to stop their own private hate, just one, then I have done something good.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Only religious people will forgive him, which makes me sad because it's poppycock.

I'm cool with forgiveness, it's an individual thing. But to forgive because there is a (supposed) god annoys me. That's not real forgiveness, you'll only be doing what a fictional character tells you. It's basically fake forgiveness.

a reply to: OpenEars123



Let me get this straight... you're saying that only religious people can forgive but religious people can't really forgive because they're religious... and you think forgiveness is a good thing.



Er... OK....

TheRedneck

The Lesson from South Carolina

a reply to: TheRedneck
No I'm saying everyone can forgive. But to forgive because of story book is sad, and not what I would call genuine forgiveness.

originally posted by: OpenEars123
Only religious people will forgive him, which makes me sad because it's poppycock.

I'm an atheist and not only do I forgive him, I have forgiven my father, who beat me, my uncle and another family member, who sexually abused me, and a family friend, who raped me. Religion is not a prerequisite to forgiveness.

I'm cool with forgiveness, it's an individual thing. But to forgive because there is a (supposed) god annoys me. That's not real forgiveness, you'll only be doing what a fictional character tells you. It's basically fake forgiveness.

This isn't true. What that woman said was not fake. Her belief may help her understand forgiveness and aid her in forgiveness, but there was nothing fake about her sentiment. The boundaries are not so black and white.

a reply to: angus1745

You don't get the idea of foregiveness at all.

In these cases, it's not about the person who did it. It's about you letting go so the act doesn't continue to fester in your own heart. Carrying that kind of burden inside weighs you down. You have to let it go before it twists you up inside and breaks you as badly as the shooter was broken. If you don't watch out, hate will only beget more hate.

None of means you meekly accept what he did and approve. It simply means you refuse to harbor extra negative feelings toward him over it. You let go and put it in someone else's hands.

After all, at this point, it's all they can do.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Well put, I was wondering when or if anyone would see the unbelievable love this church and the community have shown this country and the world.

To see these people forgive such a savage human being as this humbles me deeply .

Great post Redneck.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Well said.

In the end, all the hate in the world could not stand up to the power of love.

How easily this is forgotten in today's egocentric world.

a reply to: angus1745

You my friend, need to learn to love more than most.

He's still alive, because there was no one armed to stop him.

He's still alive, because he offered NO RESISTANCE to the police who were arresting him.

His skin color had nothing to do with it.

What you are so easily dismissing....forgiveness... is the sole reason this did NOT ignite the race war the shooter hoped it would.

Forgiveness is a very powerful thing, and it doesn't have to come from a religious mind. It comes from the heart. These people had every right to be angry, and talk a bunch of nonsense. Yet they CHOSE the higher ground, and forgave.

There is a lesson in there for us all.

originally posted by: AlexJowls

The Lesson from South Carolina

exactly....what is this crap about forgiveness.....geez, I'm a 62 year old white guy, and I can't forgive this punk, but somehow all black people are suppose to forgive him?....and south Carolina flying the confederate flag shows you EXACTLY how the government of South Carolina feels about racism. to me, flying that flag is like flying the Nazi flag