Free Energy and Water (Could it be so simple?)

I have a simple idea that should work. We'll in theory. My idea is taking salt water and pump it up front of a hill as it falls down the front of the hill it will be superheated by many fresnel lenses in a enclosed tube as it superheats the water and the tube the steam goes up and over the hill cools then condenses into fresh water . I'm not a scientist or an engineer but I think this would work. Thoughts?

Would it scale to be big enough to be useful?

What do you do at night? Stop pumping?

a reply to: Goldenwilys

In a single word, yes.

In fact some countries are already doing it - take this example from Pakistan

www.energyglobe.info...

You could probably line a whole mountain with the tubes and as for night maybe a steam powered generator that heats the tubes.

If you have to pump it, its not free, i don't understand exactly what you want to do, but how is it superior to a mirror power plant?

originally posted by: Indigent
If you have to pump it, its not free, i don't understand exactly what you want to do, but how is it superior to a mirror power plant?

If this was done in a coastal area i.e not from an inland salt lake but from the ocean then there is always an abundance of wind.

Add windmills to pump the water to a header tank that acts as a buffer to keep the flow regular if the wind stops etc and then yes, this is 'free' energy. I believe the OP's premise is solar desalination, not solar generation of electricity.

a reply to: Goldenwilys

Imagine harvesting the tide....it happens naturally...sure it would be expensive starting up but could be amazing..some day in the future when it is cost efficient.

I was thinking once you pumped it to the top one time it would keep the water going by siphoning it. Windmills are a good idea to

originally posted by: Goldenwilys
I was thinking once you pumped it to the top one time it would keep the water going by siphoning it. Windmills are a good idea to

I think there would be too many variables for siphoning to work i.e. the flow rate on the down hill side would have to quite slow to allow the water to get enough heat to evaoprate, action of currents and waves at the inlet, distance from the water source etc etc. You would also need to be able to regulate the flow - something that is not easy with a siphon.

It's an interesting idea, but is in no way 'free energy'.

a reply to: Goldenwilys

I like your idea.
I dont know how practical or efficient it would be
but it's at least worth trying it.

a reply to: Goldenwilys

Why are you pumping it up the hill? The conversion to steam will allow it to rise up the hill anyway?

Unlless I am missing something?

Also where will all the mineral deposits from the distillation go, will they not clog up your pipes?

Siphons impose a couple of limitations that will affect their proposed use in this scheme
IE the outlet must be lower than the inlet and the limit on height above the inlet which must be less than about 32 feet for water, any higher you'll draw a vacuum at the high point which breaks the flow.

a reply to: nonspecific
I would pump it up a hill so when it runs down the hill it would be heated up by the fresnel lenses and so the steam doesn't condense early and fall the wrong way. As for mineral deposits dunno will it go back in the ocean or would you have to clean it out Imaybe sell it to towns to salt their roads

a reply to: admirethedistance
Nothing is free in this world but after the startup cost of pipes and magnifying glasses I would think the cost should be minimal

originally posted by: Goldenwilys
a reply to: nonspecific
As for mineral deposits dunno will it go back in the ocean or would you have to clean it out Imaybe sell it to towns to salt their roads

You would end up with a warm salty brine at the bottom of the hill as not all of the water would or should evaporate.

If you were really clever, you would add a super efficient heat exchanger to cool the brine back as close as possible to the temperature of the water coming in, and preheating the water going up the hill a little - kind of a self feeding loop.

The responsible thing to do with the brine would be to pump it out into deep ocean away from marine life (most of it lives within a mile or so of the shore) so as not to upset the local ecosystem.

originally posted by: Indigent
If you have to pump it, its not free, i don't understand exactly what you want to do, but how is it superior to a mirror power plant?

There are ways to pump fluids using hydraulic pressure that requires absolutely no external energy...can even pump water up hill using the same principles.

At night the same energy free pumping can produce energy using micro water screws / turbines inside the tubes, using gravity as the power source.

Look up "Hydraulic Water Ram Pump" and "Water Hammer" for more information on these devices.

OP, you can also generate electricity (albeit a relatively small amount) from saline or salt water mixing with fresh water...the two are separated by a semi-permeable membrane...there are active attempts to use this technology on an industrial scale where fresh water rivers or estuaries meet the saline sea or salt rivers.

Not sure, but i think a 5Kw setup has been trialled in Israel but was shut down due to it not being commercially viable...however improvements in the tech have been ongoing i believe, and more attempts are on the way, specifically using the highly saline dead sea.

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: Goldenwilys

Imagine harvesting the tide....it happens naturally...sure it would be expensive starting up but could be amazing..some day in the future when it is cost efficient.

Like Swansea Bay's £1bn tidal lagoon given go-ahead? Scroll down to the last video to see how it works.

originally posted by: MysterX

originally posted by: Indigent
If you have to pump it, its not free, i don't understand exactly what you want to do, but how is it superior to a mirror power plant?

There are ways to pump fluids using hydraulic pressure that requires absolutely no external energy...can even pump water up hill using the same principles.

At night the same energy free pumping can produce energy using micro water screws / turbines inside the tubes, using gravity as the power source.

Look up "Hydraulic Water Ram Pump" and "Water Hammer" for more information on these devices.

OP, you can also generate electricity (albeit a relatively small amount) from saline or salt water mixing with fresh water...the two are separated by a semi-permeable membrane...there are active attempts to use this technology on an industrial scale where fresh water rivers or estuaries meet the saline sea or salt rivers.

Not sure, but i think a 5Kw setup has been trialled in Israel but was shut down due to it not being commercially viable...however improvements in the tech have been ongoing i believe, and more attempts are on the way, specifically using the highly saline dead sea.

As far as I understand a hyraulic ram pump will only return around 10% of the water.

If you had a source of downhill water this may work but then you would proberbly be better off using a good old fashioned water wheel.