Shock Video: Teen Boy Shot and Killed by Cop for Flashing Headlights and Flexing Rights

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4

originally posted by: Answer
Oh look... here's the rest of the story.

oh look, here's mr police apologist.

Oh look, here's Mr "I don't care what the facts say, the cops are ALWAYS wrong."

clearly we should agree to disagree. i apologise for the 'police apologist' comment, that was unnecessary.

and no i don't think cops are always wrong. but if i think they are i will say so. sincerely. and that apology is for real

Dang it, I want to continue disliking you. Why'd you have to go and be reasonable and cordial?

Apology accepted, begrudgingly.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: smurfy

He also said NO to providing his badge and later says he didn't say no but still does not show anything to the kid.

Yup. That prosecutor was so dang gullible wasn't he, believed all the policeman said, has second sight about the blurry pictures, while deaf and dumb about the pictures you can see...is he one of the Bush family or what?

originally posted by: Answer Apology accepted, begrudgingly.

ha ha thank you.

originally posted by: seeker1963
I give them respect as I always have! It has ALWAYS meant I got to go home versus spending some time in a jail cell or DEAD!

If a LEO can decide to execute you based on lack of cringing and fawning, then it's time to make some adjustments to the legal system.

a reply to: alienjuggalo

legally checking the status of your insurance and registration is a reason.

originally posted by: Char-Lee

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Char-Lee

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: Answer

Typically people stall at a traffic stop for a few reasons: existing warrants, DUI

Easily checked by the police with a simple call he already was talking why did he not give them the license number and see.

You do realize that the officer runs all that after he gets the person's ID, right?

The ID that the kid refused to give the officer...

When he didn't get the lic and was getting angry he stepped away and called for backup....I suppose if he thought this kid some major threat he would have run the license...

ALL of this is irrelevant, he was unarmed! he was tased, he was on the ground... 7 bullets!

Run what license?

You don't have a clue how records work in relation to license plate numbers vs someone's ID, do you?

I have seen the police run my plate before even approaching the car they know who I am...you have no clue imo.

After doing some research the boy didn't get tazed. He attacked the officer beat him senseless where he had to be hospitalized. So this 17 yr old decided it was a great idea to rush the officer jump on top of him and try to beat him until he was unconscious. This is the problem with all this anti police stuff on the news and internet. It gets people to do stupid things instead of just letting the officer do his job. A boy died because he believed he had the right to attack a police officer. And why did he think he did because he saw others on the Web disobey police while recording it for the web. As we can see this is a dangerous idea for people to have.

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: Answer

Typically people stall at a traffic stop for a few reasons: existing warrants, DUI

Easily checked by the police with a simple call he already was talking why did he not give them the license number and see.

You do realize that the officer runs all that after he gets the person's ID, right?

The ID that the kid refused to give the officer...

Because the officer had no reason to pull him over. Legally he needs a dam reason

Flashing high beams at someone is a reason in Michigan. Whether you accept it or not is irrelevant.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4

originally posted by: seeker1963 I give them respect as I always have! It has ALWAYS meant I got to go home versus spending some time in a jail cell or DEAD!

that isn't respect, it's fear.

That's what LEOs really mean when they say they want 'respect'. What they want is fear. It gets their egos all pumped.

When you don't fear them, they're insulted. Want to really set one off? Laugh.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Answer

It can tell you more then that.
Unless cops on the show cops are just liars and say the registered owner of this car has a warrant.
Or is it different by state?

But good point about him being 17, wouldn't do much most likely.

IF the tag number is known at the time the warrant is issued, then it will be flagged. It's massively unreliable, though. A large number of criminals who know they have warrants tend to drive on old plates or drive friends' cars, or any number of things that make it hard to track them.

Generally, an officer won't know about warrants until they check the ID number.

a reply to: Answer

You may be right as far as how the kid could have stayed alive, but your attitude towards this issue is the same attitude throughout history that has enabled totalitarian systems to rise up. I imagine 1930's Germany was rife with people like you! I'm not trying to be a jerk, just saying this is going to keep happening more and more unless we put our collective foot down on this kind of behavior.

From what I find, the Michigan statute is high beams cannot be used with 500 feet of an approaching vehicle. So flashing them within 500 feet is a traffic violation.

a reply to: RoScoLaz4

oh sorry good enough for the legal system but not for you, didn't realize you were the almighty

originally posted by: jaws1975
a reply to: Answer

You may be right as far as how the kid could have stayed alive, but your attitude towards this issue is the same attitude throughout history that has enabled totalitarian systems to rise up. I imagine 1930's Germany was rife with people like you! I'm not trying to be a jerk, just saying this is going to keep happening more and more unless we put our collective foot down on this kind of behavior.

Or we could put our foot down on idiots thinking they can fight with a cop and get away with it. That's the common factor in every single one of these shootings. They all go down the same way: idiot breaks the law, idiot argues with the cop and refuses to comply, cop tries to detain the idiot, idiot fights cop, cop shoots idiot. The problem is with people thinking it makes a difference that someone is "unarmed" as though an unarmed person can't kill or cause severe bodily harm. When the bad guy has a gun, knife, or other weapon... nobody questions the shooting. When the bad guy only has his fists, feet, elbows, knees, head, and whatever he can take off of the officer... suddenly he's "unarmed" and should be treated to a massage with cucumber slices over his eyes.

What sort of collective putting down of the foot should we try? Do we say that the cops can't arrest anyone? If they weren't going around arresting people for breaking the law, then that person couldn't fight back and escalate the situation... there's a solution for ya!

Please tell me how you fix a situation where cops have to defend themselves with deadly force? These cases are presented every time as "cop shoots unarmed black man/teenager/black teenager/student/whatever" and nobody wants to see what LED UP TO the moment of the shooting. Simple fact is this: when you decide to engage in a physical confrontation with an armed person, police officer or not, you can expect to be ventilated. The standard for using deadly force is a "fear of death or grave bodily harm." No reasonable person says "well maybe this guy will only beat me up a little bit and maybe I won't end up unconscious so he can take my gun... and maybe I won't fall just right and hit my head and be a vegetable for the rest of my life... and maybe he doesn't have a knife or a gun hidden somewhere... and maybe he won't choke me to death or stomp on my head..." A reasonable person reacts swiftly and violently to end the attack.

People seem to think that life works like the movies and you can go toe-to-toe with a guy for 6 rounds of fisticuffs until you finally get the guy to give up. In reality, you can be knocked cold with one hit and then your attacker is free to do whatever he wants. People with the best self-defense training in the world know better than to fight fair. That's how you get hurt or dead.

originally posted by: roaland
a reply to: alienjuggalo

legally checking the status of your insurance and registration is a reason.

He could have done that before even approaching the car, Michigan police have that capability unless the insurance was very recent. It could be that way..we don't know.

a reply to: Answer

Please tell me how you fix a situation where cops have to defend themselves with deadly force?

Well for starters we could ensure that officers follow protocol, he was dealing with a noncompliant traffic stop he should have waited for his backup to arrive and this whole thing would have never happened, period. The cop escalated this by not waiting for backup, situations like this are exactly what backup was designed for.

originally posted by: roadgravel
From what I find, the Michigan statute is high beams cannot be used with 500 feet of an approaching vehicle. So flashing them within 500 feet is a traffic violation.

The cop having them on is also a traffic violation.

originally posted by: jaws1975
a reply to: Answer

Please tell me how you fix a situation where cops have to defend themselves with deadly force?

Well for starters we could ensure that officers follow protocol, he was dealing with a noncompliant traffic stop he should have waited for his backup to arrive and this whole thing would have never happened, period. The cop escalated this by not waiting for backup, situations like this are exactly what backup was designed for.

That's your misunderstanding of protocol. He wasn't required to wait for backup.

He evaluated the situation and decided that it was time to put an end to the stalling/waiting for the kid to make his next move. The conversation was obviously getting him nowhere so detaining the kid became necessary.

You're looking at this scenario with the benefit of hindsight. I'm sure if Sgt. Frost had known at the time that the kid was going to attack him, he would have waited for backup. As others have said... the kid wasn't acting aggressive or violent at first, just smart alecky.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
You know this guy is going to have to live with this, he knows his anger management problem was the reason a kid died, a kid who could have been anything in the future but dared not show a license when it was demanded.

Oh, poor cop. The kid...doesn't get to live with this, because the cop with the anger management issue killed him.

But hey, nol pros so it's all ok, right?

Crazy....I had never even heard of this story. Flashing your lights = death? What the actual...? Kid probably didn't even know he was passing a cop.

I said to my hubby "I bet he was white" and he was. I'm not implying anything by that statement, it just seems that their stories do not seem to get any airtime on the national "news" what so ever.

originally posted by: Answer
What sort of collective putting down of the foot should we try?

Well, for starters, let's make the certification process federal, and relieve the states and municipalities of that little chore.

Let's judicially bar IA from investigating ANY LEO incident ahead of the prosecutor's investigation. That will end the "IA says it was ok, nol pros!" thing that local prosecutors do.

Alternatively, end IA altogether other than a sort of HR issue if Officer Smedly gropes the secretary or something.

IA functions should be performed by a disinterested federal group that is above local politics, can't be easily bribed, and doesn't care about whether the cops support them or not. As opposed to, say, the local prosecutors and judges, who have a natural conflict of interest in the matter.

And have all criminal charges against LEOs be prosecuted in federal court.

That would about do it. Get the conflicts of interest out, and apply some punitive feedback that's permanent, i.e., you lose certification and can't get it back by going to the next town.