Shock Video: Teen Boy Shot and Killed by Cop for Flashing Headlights and Flexing Rights

You've never seen an mma fight?

a reply to: bastion

a reply to: raymundoko

No I stated points from the video without watching it. You see I have this super power were I know what videos are about without seeing them. (sarcasm)

a reply to: celticdog

But your points were all wrong, like you hadn't even seen the video...so yeah.

originally posted by: raymundoko
You've never seen an mma fight?

a reply to: bastion

If you mean have I seen one with with a stoned, tazed kid vs a guy with a gun, then no.

A reply to a post on page 27 by : Answer
You have to do your research as good as can be. It takes some time, days now and then.
After I was ready making all these posts, I first read page 28-29-and 30, and saw that much of my reasoning was also written already with about the same intention or words. Well done by those posters.!

2 REFERENCES.
1. Time-line of fatal Deven Guilford traffic stop. Which inhibits the full shoulder cam recording up to 8 seconds after the first shot, the two video files from Deven's hand-phone and the 2.5 secs slowed down part of the confrontation.

2. The final Douglas R. Lloyd's report's PDF- version 1.4 explanation, the Eaton County Prosecuting Attorney Report.

Why can't we copy text from it.? Reminds me of the same ugly trick, to hinder swift reactions on the Internet, from the two final 9/11 NIST Reports, where we later found several SEVERE mistakes/intended-faults in that mountain of pages which rendered its conclusions worthless. (see my 5 signature links under all my posts)

PAGE 6 Deven pulled from the car :


PAGE 7 The wrestling and shooting :

originally posted by: Answer in page 28.
Yeah, I'm gonna need a source for that information. I haven't found ANYTHING stating that the shots were "downward" and that would have obviously gone against everything the prosecutor said.
Post a source or stop spreading lies.

Here's that SOURCE posted by framedragged on page 28, you posted yourself later on page 29 :

PAGE 9 : AUTOPSY-1 :


Seven shots in 4 to 5 seconds, that's not an under gunshots collapsing furious fighting boy sitting with his knees over your hips, while you shoot at him from a down under him, point blank close range position, as the DA explains.

PAGE 10 : AUTOPSY-2 :


?. Head wound upper right front scalp (deadly) - trajectory DOWNWARD, close range.
3. Right upper chest wound - steeply DOWNWARD, from a few feet. (see my still frame 05:37)
6.Upper belly shot, also DOWNWARD, from a few feet.
5. Left arm pit shot, slightly DOWNWARD, from a few feet.
4. Left lower chest shot, slightly DOWNWARD, from a few feet.
2.Right wrist shot, disabled the right hand, boy held his right hand up to protect his face, from a few feet. Trajectory slightly upward from his wrist KNOB. Put your right hand for your face, with the thumb DOWN, palm outwards. See why the shot seems upwards? But was DOWNWARD.
1. Right forearm shot, boy instinctively held his right arm up to protect his face, from a few feet. Trajectory slightly upward as described in the normal hanging arm position, but was in fact DOWNWARD, to an held up arm.

The other 6, not instantly deadly shots, were at least incapacitating.
Numbering is by me, in the by me proposed order.

It looks as if Frost shot him while Deven was sitting torso up - on his behind, but probably kneeling on his knees, and Frost stood upright one meter in front of him, aiming his gun DOWNWARDS at the boy all the time, see my 05:37 still frame EVIDENCE from my post on page 25.
That important, first shot-fired 05:37 video still-frame. Look at the angle the cam is filming the boy at the right.
Push the double key-combination (Ctrl and +) several times, to blow up the picture in your browser. This picture is 924px × 549px (scaled down to ATS 491px × 292px) :



Take also in account the other injuries for Deven, reported at the bottom of page 10 :

Abrasions to his right forehead, right chin and right chest, right side torso and left forearm.

That doesn't read like a vicious attacking 17 year old, onto a thick protective clothed and gloved LEO. More the other way round.
A LEO who had ALL the weapons.
A baton, a Taser, a handgun and his police martial arts training, we may suppose to have been or to be an important part of his training periods. The handcuffs can also be used as an effective metal chin-knuckles device.
The boy was dressed in a thin short-sleeved t-shirt, and trousers.
To me it looked as if the boy was on the receiving end of all the aggression, after he got out of his car.

By the way, did they check for the boy's blood in abundance on Sgt. Frost's uniform.?
Since Frost said the boy slumped on top of him, with 7 bullets in him, which should cause a lot of blood stains on his uniform. I do not see mention of it anywhere in the final ECPA-Report.

Post by BASSPLYR on top of page 28. Good reasoning with little evidence yet to go on.
Post by bastion in page 28. Good reasoning.
Post by framedragged. Very good reasoning against the official story, and the impossibility of the downwards shots.

Member Answer, this remark from you in your post in page 11 is probably based on your reading of the final ECPA-Report, but is pertinent untrue, when you analyze all Frost's shoulder cam recorded footage :
" It was knocked off during the struggle"

Frost's shoulder cam was on his right shoulder up to the 05:37 first shot-point in the full video, and if you analyze all the still pictures in the above newspaper site, and the full video which includes my 05:37 reddish blurred still frame with the boy clearly at least a meter/yard away from the cam, while you hear the first shot, the only conclusion can be that up to that moment when Frost fired the first 3 shots, his shoulder cam was still at the same place, his right shoulder. Where it stayed all the time until that video its record was mysteriously shut off at 05:45, eight seconds after the first shot. It took Frost 4 to 5 seconds to fire all 7 shots.
So, why did Frost's video and audio recording suddenly stop 4 to 3 secs after the 7th shot.?

Mysteriously stopped, because the boy was dead from at least the forehead shot and could not have ripped the cam off Frost's shoulder from then on.
The DA Report states that Frost's cam its ripped off lens and its cable was found in the snow near Deven.

This leads me to strongly suggest that Frost himself ripped the lens and cable from his shoulder cam, AFTER 3 to 4 secs of panic time as a reaction on his execution of Deven Guilford.
Which makes a lot of his story, after they both entered the snow drift, at least questionable.
Any fingerprints on that lens tested.? Frost had gloves on, the boy not.

If you analyze your still frame where you say it's the boy's right fist, I agree it is his fist.
But not his right, but his LEFT fist.

Which fist I think could be trying to hold on to the officer's right uniformed arm clothing, to stop him using that Taser in his right hand, or try to stay upright on his feet since he seems to be pulled or pushed by the officer also all the time, up to the first shot. Both were pushing and pulling each other when I review the footage.
Because Deven held his right hand stretched far up, and that hand is clearly open with wide spread fingers, as you can see in my next two still frames, which I took from the same 2.5 secs slowed down video you seemingly took your more blurry still from :





Deven clearly wanted to block Frost from using the Taser on him again in the direct body contact mode, by pressing it to Deven's skin and electrocute him.
Take also in account the many bruises and discolorations on his body, which were reported as pre-autopsy.

Now look again at Answer's still frame below, while you realize the angle by which the cam must be filming, from the right shoulder of the officer. How does the situation look to you now?

member Answer : My opinion hasn't changed. Your "breakdowns" of the video are mostly nonsense based on what you think you see in the highly blurred screen shots. No offense. The "Ow" comes from the kid, not the officer and was a response to getting hit with a single taser prong. You keep trying to imply that the officer tasered himself but that's not how a taser works.

Your breakdown and posting of still shots conveniently missed the most important frame:

Here we see Deven Guilford facing the officer and it appears that his right hand is formed into a fist. This is a much clearer view than the blobs that you're using to rewrite the story.

It's not Deven's right hand, as Answer thought is formed into a fist, but his left hand

I wrote that it seems that Frost electrocuted (i.o.w., prong-shot) himself too and therefore Frost "Ouched".
I'll clear it up : The Autopsy part of the ECPA-Report says that two darts/prongs embedded, one in the boy's back, one in the boys T-shirt.
But since Frost fired the Taser much too close to the victim, the required minimal 4 inches separation / distance between the two darts/prongs was not achieved. One of them was found still stuck in the boy's back, one had embedded itself in his T-shirt's back part, but not in his skin.

I hope you agree that Frost never should have shot that Taser at such close range, the danger to shoot himself in his own arms or hands too, with one of the darts/prongs was very high, since he was holding/pushing the boy down with his left hand.

An audio expert should analyze the "Ough" scream its modulation and amplitudes, and also from the voice of Frost just before the Taser shot, commanding Deven in the same high pitch tone, to put his arms and hands on his back.
If he could prove it to be Frost's scream and not from Deven, that would shine a whole different light on the cause of the resulting confrontation. The family should at least let this investigation be performed.
For the time being, we are bound to Douglas R. Lloyd's report's PDF-version 1.4 explanation, the Eaton County Prosecuting Attorney.

The text on top of page 18 does not reflect the earlier in this thread's mentioned story, that Frost had to take his revolver out of his holster whilst getting punched by the boy sitting on top of him. That's quite a task when you lay on the ground and someone is sitting on your waist and hips, punching you in the face.

Page 18 :
Once on the ground, Sgt. Frost's movements were restricted because of their positioning: he was pinned to the ground on his back because Deven was sitting on his waist/hips.
-snip- Deven was in a position to see Sgt. Frost's actions, and that he had a handgun pointed at him, yet Deven did not stop his attack. Sgt. Frost reported that while he was clearing the gun jam, Deven was still actively hitting him in the face and head. -snip-

But now the story is that Frost had his gun already in his hand, pointing it at Deven, who however kept hitting Frost in the face.
Seems a tad bit over the top, to ask us to believe that scenario.
Would you keep punching a police officer only equipped with your bare hands, while he is pointing a damn impressive big gun at you? Not the everyday logical reaction, to say the least.
I would go for the gun, not the face.
By the way, how heavy and tall was Sgt. Frost? We get Deven's physical composition, why not the same info for Frost?

Page 19 :
* The Taser was found in the snow between the roadside and the main disturbance, as if the Taser had been dropped during Sgt. Frost's movement off the roadway.
-snip-
* One unfired cartridge was located immediately adjacent to the marks in the snow.
* Seven shell casings were located in or close to the markings in the snow.

Where exactly did they find the unfired shot, (the nr. 0, the eighth missing bullet+casing) that first, jammed shell casing, a bullet still fixed in its top, it must have a firing-pin mark in its casing's bottom center, as one poster already noted.
THIS pin-mark IS IMPORTANT MISSING EVIDENCE for Frost's story in this ECPA-Report..
Frost switched from Taser, to reach for his gun and kept the gun in his (right) hand. And the first shot misfired and/or jammed after pressing the gun's trigger..
And the casual reader could misinterpret it also as a Taser cartridge. They mix-use the naming "cartridge" (page 7) and "casing" as description for bullet-cartridges, bullet-casings and Taser cartridges.

Page 18 : Taser cartridge covers were located near the front of the car Deven was driving, where Sgt. Frost attempted to use the Taser.

How many? ECPA Lloyd uses the plural form. Why not give the exact amount of cartridge covers?
They must have been located BESIDE, not near the front of the car. That's where Frost tasered Deven.
Because near the front, can also mean in front of the car's hood.
And Frost did not attempt to use his Taser, he did effectively use it, as you can SEE and HEAR in Frost's cam video and HEAR in Deven's second phone file.

Page 19 : Sgt. Frost's body-cam lens was located adjacent to the main disturbance in the snow, consistent with it being separated during a hand-to-hand skirmish.

Cleverly worded, but TOTALLY UNTRUE, see my 05:37 still-frame EVIDENCE for that, use the "Ctrl +" combination 7 times to view the maximum picture size in your browser :



The cam's lens was still registering when the shots were fired and we see the boy at least 1 meter away from Frost's right shoulder's body cam somewhere in the period of a second long, of us hearing the first of the three first shots . The cam was still operating during about 3 to 4 seconds after the 7th shot. The boy was dead by then, couldn't have grabbed that cam.

That lens and cable find, is more consistent with Frost ripping the lens and cable off the battery pack and throwing it in the snow, in panic, realizing what he just had done.
Especially when you consider my 05:37 still frame scene of the first shot.

If you want to persist in believing in the System, it's your choice.
Your kids, nephews or nieces, neighbor's kids, friends could be the next victim of the wider spreading, growing macho culture in LEO circles. And the, in the same pace spreading, fear for repercussions by honest, straight police personnel. Which undoubtedly WILL influence their next decisions in upcoming compatible situations. They will not be as lenient as before...

And of course, luckily the majority of them is mentally better equipped to handle this kind of situations, but they will eventually suffer the same consequences, when the citizens they serve to protect, will not accept these exceptionally but brutal sudden-death sentences anymore and innocent police men and women are going to be shot randomly in the build-up of compatible situations.

That's why I try to address this ECPA-Report plus the video/audio evidence in the same state of mind as the eventual family lawyer, to see if holes in the story can be pinpointed.
To stop other machos from making the same miscalculations.

Last post, for now.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: celticdog

But your points were all wrong, like you hadn't even seen the video...so yeah.

But your points are all trolling, like you hadn't even seen the t&c's...so yeah.

Anyway, now that I've trolled the troll lol, I think he was dragging/backing himself out from under the kid and was shooting at him, which would would be in direction of feet, as he did so. Would explain the trajectory, perhaps.

a reply to: NoAngel2u

How exactly are my points trolling? I am pointing out the flaws in these peoples logic who are supporting the kid. It's a shame he died, but don't gain a ground and pound mount on a police officer...

Are you saying the officer DIDN'T start the perfectly legal traffic stop in a calm and professional manner? Are you saying the kid followed the law and complied readily with the officers requests?

a reply to: raymundoko

Well given the officer's admission that he had pulled other people that night for trying to inform him his lights were abnormally bright it sure sounds like the dictionary definition of entrapment, and not a legal traffic stop.

"In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a criminal offense that the person would have otherwise been unlikely to commit. It is a conduct that is generally discouraged and thus, in many jurisdictions, it is a possible defense against criminal liability."

Unless you're going to argue that Deven was just out maliciously flashing his brights at passers by, it's plainly obvious the officer was baiting people into flashing him.

In other words entrapment.

We can argue all we want about whether or not the shooting was justified, but the pulling over was absolutely not. If Deven committed a crime by flashing his lights then officer committed an equal and proportionate crime of having his lights improperly aligned or too bright.

So yeah, it is 100%, undeniably, unarguably, the police officer's fault, for entrapping a young man and resorting to violence instead of calling for backup.

a reply to: framedragged

So you ignore that the officer had pulled others over and let them go? He wasn't entrapping anyone. He was notifying them of the law. He was indeed aware his lights were bright, but can he just stop his shift for the night and get his lights fixed? Or for all you know they intend for the lights to be a tad bright but within the legal limits of dim for the safety of the officer? It is still illegal to flash someone in Michigan. Trying to put a spin of entrapment on it is just plain ignorant of law.

a reply to: raymundoko

No, I was being hyperbolic. To point out that this is undeniably on the officer. He obviously should have stopped pulling people over for flashing his brights. There was no reason to do it other than to hassle drivers and go fishing.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: Char-LeeI don't think you even watched the video...there is no way you did for you to be posting what you are posting...

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: hefficideI was born and raised in GA and I live here part time. You were gravely misinformed. I personally know two people who have killed unarmed intruders without so much as a catch and release. GA is very lax when it comes to defending yourself if it seems very obvious that you had to.

originally posted by: raymundoko
So you didn't watch the video?a reply to: celticdog

originally posted by: raymundoko
You've never seen an mma fight?a reply to: bastion

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: celticdogBut your points were all wrong, like you hadn't even seen the video...so yeah.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: NoAngel2uHow exactly are my points trolling? I am pointing out the flaws in these peoples logic who are supporting the kid. It's a shame he died, but don't gain a ground and pound mount on a police officer...

You made no points, nor pointed out any flaws. Well other than your own...

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: NoAngel2uAre you saying the officer DIDN'T start the perfectly legal traffic stop in a calm and professional manner? Are you saying the kid followed the law and complied readily with the officers requests?

Nope, I didn't say either of those things. My on topic comment was regarding the trajectory of the bullets. Did you read it? Lol

originally posted by: framedragged
a reply to: raymundoko

To point out that this is undeniably on the officer. He obviously should have stopped pulling people over for flashing his brights. There was no reason to do it other than to hassle drivers and go fishing.

Now that's making a point.