Shock Video: Teen Boy Shot and Killed by Cop for Flashing Headlights and Flexing Rights

Lol looks like excessive force doncha think?

I mean they can't grab the guns until everyone starts shooting back.....

Don't know what firearm he used but maybe it as a safety issue and all he had to do was rearrange his grip or move a lever. The misfire makes for a better story at first look.

originally posted by: Answer

Yes, he screams about the taser prong hitting him in the back.

He yelps earlier and I hear the taser going off. But the scream is later. Was there a second tasing?

Not a dud round. He pressed the muzzle into the kid's chest which caused a malfunction. He racked the slide thinking it was a bad round because that's what you're trained to do when the weapon malfunctions in a high-stress situation.

Do they know this, or are you supposing? Just asking. Still, I'm not able to see how this happened, whether it was a dud or the cop pressing his own slide out of battery. Either way, he was able to cycle the weapon while being beaten unconscious.

It's not that difficult. I'm not sure why you think it's an impossible task... With all your military training, you never practiced malfunction drills on handguns?

Sure I did. But I'm talking about the body mechanics involved when someone's mounted on top of you, punching your face.

It's a lot different when you're in CQC and there's some separation. In that case, there's no hindrance (other than people shooting at you in the meantime) to you bringing the weapon in front of you and jacking the slide. But you can't do that with someone squatting on your chest popping you in the jaw. Try it, if you've got a spare kid around the house.

I think you're trying to find holes in the story where there are none, honestly, and you're having to grasp pretty desperately at straws. If the kid was not on top of him when the shots were fired, don't you think that would have been obvious during the autopsy?

It's not a desperate grasp. I'm really puzzled how you would do this, physically.

As far as the autopsy goes, if the cop was standing over the kid and shot him at point blank range, or if they were both standing, all they're going to look for is a muzzle stamp or a star pattern, maybe some local subcutaneous emphysema from the gas.

I'd love to see the autopsy report. Is it out yet, do you think?

originally posted by: Answer
The level of derp in this thread is overwhelming.

You can say that again. But I think it comes from a certain "answer" than anything else......

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Answer

Yes, he screams about the taser prong hitting him in the back.

He yelps earlier and I hear the taser going off. But the scream is later. Was there a second tasing?

Not a dud round. He pressed the muzzle into the kid's chest which caused a malfunction. He racked the slide thinking it was a bad round because that's what you're trained to do when the weapon malfunctions in a high-stress situation.

Do they know this, or are you supposing? Just asking. Still, I'm not able to see how this happened, whether it was a dud or the cop pressing his own slide out of battery. Either way, he was able to cycle the weapon while being beaten unconscious.

It's not that difficult. I'm not sure why you think it's an impossible task... With all your military training, you never practiced malfunction drills on handguns?

Sure I did. But I'm talking about the body mechanics involved when someone's mounted on top of you, punching your face.

It's a lot different when you're in CQC and there's some separation. In that case, there's no hindrance (other than people shooting at you in the meantime) to you bringing the weapon in front of you and jacking the slide. But you can't do that with someone squatting on your chest popping you in the jaw. Try it, if you've got a spare kid around the house.

I think you're trying to find holes in the story where there are none, honestly, and you're having to grasp pretty desperately at straws. If the kid was not on top of him when the shots were fired, don't you think that would have been obvious during the autopsy?

It's not a desperate grasp. I'm really puzzled how you would do this, physically.

As far as the autopsy goes, if the cop was standing over the kid and shot him at point blank range, or if they were both standing, all they're going to look for is a muzzle stamp or a star pattern, maybe some local subcutaneous emphysema from the gas.

I'd love to see the autopsy report. Is it out yet, do you think?

I don't know and I'm unsure if they'll release the report given that the deceased is a minor. The autopsy/relation of exit wounds to entry would indicate the bullets' angles of travel which would obviously tell the ME if the kid was actually on top of the officer or if he was on the ground and the officer was standing. All of that information would have been used by the prosecutor to determine if the facts matched the officer's statement.

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys

originally posted by: Answer
The level of derp in this thread is overwhelming.

You can say that again. But I think it comes from a certain "answer" than anything else......

Har de har... some of us come armed with facts and some come armed with knee-jerk nonsense.

I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between the two.

originally posted by: roadgravel
Don't know what firearm he used but maybe it as a safety issue and all he had to do was rearrange his grip or move a lever. The misfire makes for a better story at first look.

I've seen several sources that say he ejected an unfired round.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: roadgravel
Don't know what firearm he used but maybe it as a safety issue and all he had to do was rearrange his grip or move a lever. The misfire makes for a better story at first look.

I've seen several sources that say he ejected an unfired round.

fair enough but were the sources just repeating his statement? Did an investigation retrieve an eject round at the scene?

Just wondering.

originally posted by: Answer

I don't know and I'm unsure if they'll release the report given that the deceased is a minor. The autopsy/relation of exit wounds to entry would indicate the bullets' angles of travel which would obviously tell the ME if the kid was actually on top of the officer or if he was on the ground and the officer was standing. All of that information would have been used by the prosecutor to determine if the facts matched the officer's statement.

The angles don't change a lot between being mounted and both standing, unless the kid was riding way up toward's the cop's shoulders. But that being true, it would be close to impossible for the cop to reach his sidearm, because the kid's leg is blocking it in that case.

See any photos of the cop post-action other than that one with the towel wrapped around his neck? If you've got someone on top of you and you Swiss cheese them, I'd expect to see some blood on you.

Oh, and of course, it depends on how motivated the ME is to actually find for the cop. Around here, you get oddball coroner's reports with things like "his larynx was crushed, but death is attributed to heart failure" whenever a cop is involved in a shady event. It goes with no LEO ever having been convicted in the history of Kern County, as legend has it.

originally posted by: Bedlam

Help me out here. How can the kid be on top of you, you on your back, perhaps with the ditch sides also constricting your lateral movement, AND you able to reach down, unholster the weapon and then cycle the action?

It happened somehow.

The cop has multiple injuries to the face consistent with being punched repeatedly. If the shots weren't fired while the kid was on top of him, the autopsy would have shown that.

When there's a fight and adrenaline gets going on both sides, crazy things happen. It's hard to sit and imagine exactly how a scenario goes down but it's even harder to imagine that the story is totally bogus and the prosecutor just gives up and says "I see nothing wrong here..." especially in the current "civilians vs cops" climate.

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: roadgravel
Don't know what firearm he used but maybe it as a safety issue and all he had to do was rearrange his grip or move a lever. The misfire makes for a better story at first look.

I've seen several sources that say he ejected an unfired round.

fair enough but were the sources just repeating his statement? Did an investigation retrieve an eject round at the scene?

Just wondering.

I think it's safe to say an unfired round was retrieved at the scene or the story would have been changed pretty quickly.

a reply to: seeker1963

I ran through a lot of ideas of what happened here because it didn't make sense to me that the cop would suddenly start shooting for no reason.

Obviously the kid was trying to egg on the cop from the start, lying about his ID, then changing his story on top of it. He started to be a little incoherent and slurring his speech as well. I noticed that the cop didn't seem to let any of it bother him. he kept his cool. Even when he had to taze him in order to get his hands behind his back. The cop wasn't getting hooked.

So in the end, you can here that the kid is running away from the cop, then when he is shot you can tell by his scream that there was some distance between the two at this point. So I thought, why would he shoot him if he was running away? Was it just a bad reflex, bad in the moment decision? The cop seemed to keep it together overall until the shots...

So the only logical explanation I could think is that, as the kid was running away, he did something that looked like he was pulling a weapon - or, he actually pulled a weapon after he built up some distance from the cop. That is the only way it made sense to me.

We will never know.

originally posted by: Answer

It happened somehow.

Or not, which is my position.

The cop has multiple injuries to the face consistent with being punched repeatedly. If the shots weren't fired while the kid was on top of him, the autopsy would have shown that.

Or the kid popped him a couple, the cop drew and shot him seven times point blank. Maybe the autopsy would show it, but it might be sort of ambiguous. All you really know is that they were about head to head and the shots were fired either point blank or in contact. Which would also be true if they were standing.

It's hard to sit and imagine exactly how a scenario goes down but it's even harder to imagine that the story is totally bogus and the prosecutor just gives up and says "I see nothing wrong here..." especially in the current "civilians vs cops" climate.

Ah, hell, that happens all the time. That's the WHY of the current climate. Prosecutors are motivated to let the cops slide - if they prosecute LEOs then they don't get support from LEOs. It's a conflict of interest that only ends up on the citizen's side if the cop is caught on video AND there's enough uproar from the populace that the prosecutor is more afraid of losing the next election than the response from FOP.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: roadgravel
Don't know what firearm he used but maybe it as a safety issue and all he had to do was rearrange his grip or move a lever. The misfire makes for a better story at first look.

I've seen several sources that say he ejected an unfired round.

fair enough but were the sources just repeating his statement? Did an investigation retrieve an eject round at the scene?

Just wondering.

I think it's safe to say an unfired round was retrieved at the scene or the story would have been changed pretty quickly.

I wouldn't put that at 100%, but that is just me and my finally excepting that corruption is rampant. Let's hope it is true even it if makes things seem complicated.

originally posted by: Answer
I think it's safe to say an unfired round was retrieved at the scene or the story would have been changed pretty quickly.

I'm not bothered by the unfired round, other than that the cop states that he had the time and ability to clear the weapon whilst being straddled and beaten so badly he feared for his life. Which seems sort of unlikely-to-impossible.

But there's lots of ways for this to happen in the cf that is CQC. He might have thought he pulled the trigger and didn't, then cleared it by reflex. Or it might have been a dud. With some sidearms, the trigger pull is a LOT heavier in double action than single, and he probably didn't tote the thing around with the hammer back, I wouldn't, which of course might vary a bit if it's a hammerless design. Or maybe he pushed his slide out of battery.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Answer

It happened somehow.

Or not, which is my position.

The cop has multiple injuries to the face consistent with being punched repeatedly. If the shots weren't fired while the kid was on top of him, the autopsy would have shown that.

Or the kid popped him a couple, the cop drew and shot him seven times point blank. Maybe the autopsy would show it, but it might be sort of ambiguous. All you really know is that they were about head to head and the shots were fired either point blank or in contact. Which would also be true if they were standing.

It's hard to sit and imagine exactly how a scenario goes down but it's even harder to imagine that the story is totally bogus and the prosecutor just gives up and says "I see nothing wrong here..." especially in the current "civilians vs cops" climate.

Ah, hell, that happens all the time. That's the WHY of the current climate. Prosecutors are motivated to let the cops slide - if they prosecute LEOs then they don't get support from LEOs. It's a conflict of interest that only ends up on the citizen's side if the cop is caught on video AND there's enough uproar from the populace that the prosecutor is more afraid of losing the next election than the response from FOP.

We'll just have to disagree on how difficult it would be to get to the holstered sidearm.

If I were in that situation, as soon as I realized the attacker was jumping on me, I would go for my gun. I've trained for that exact scenario because falling down happens a lot, especially when you back peddle to create distance. Considering how quickly everything happened, I'm guessing the officer went to the ground and likely unholstered right before the kid ended up on top of him. All the punches could have occurred from the moment he had the malfunction until the moment he racked the slide and started firing.

If I'm on my back and someone makes a move to jump on me, I'm not about to play MMA fighter and fight back with my hands when I have access to a sidearm. It's way too easy to be knocked out and/or severely injured in that scenario and once you're out of the fight... your attacker has access to YOUR gun and it's up to them what happens next.

Training with a little padding, some mock weapons, and folks who are schooled in violence really opens your eyes to how quickly things can go from normal to totally fukt sideways. I know that all the folks here on ATS are highly-trained super badasses who can fight their way out of anything with only one arm... but I'm just a mere mortal.

a reply to: whatmakesyouright

The reason so many shots are fired is simple. They want to make sure the person doesn't live and tell their side of the story.

originally posted by: Answer

We'll just have to disagree on how difficult it would be to get to the holstered sidearm.

If I were in that situation, as soon as I realized the attacker was jumping on me, I would go for my gun.

But as far as we can tell, according to you, at that point he had the taser in hand, which is why the kid screams at the point that they cut off the end of the cop's body cam.

This cop is amazing if he's using a taser the second time, the kid screams but somehow is not incapacitated at all, manages to close and get the cop down. Somewhere in there the cop has the presence of mind to drop the taser, unholster his sidearm before being tackled and mounted, then while being pounded to unconsciousness in the face, he brings the pistol in front of him and using both hands, racks the slide with the kid still beating him, who for some reason both permits the cop to bring the pistol in front and rack it then point it at him a second time without doing anything at all to stop that. You'd have thought the kid would have seen what the cop was going to do, him having blown his first shot, then having to clear the weapon right there in front of the kid.

It seems like the timeline's a bit crowded.

Why not -
the cop tasers the kid, who's not being very resistant, the kid becomes afraid for his life, gets up and hits the cop. The cop then reacts by taking out his sidearm and firing it at the kid, it misfires, the kid screams, the cop racks the slide, grabs the kid, pop pop pop pop pop pop pop.

Fits the facts and ends up the same, with a lot less steps.

Training with a little padding, some mock weapons, and folks who are schooled in violence really opens your eyes to how quickly things can go from normal to totally fukt sideways. I know that all the folks here on ATS are highly-trained super badasses who can fight their way out of anything with only one arm... but I'm just a mere mortal.

Well, as the captain used to say, it's a long string of # ups that leads you to go hand to hand with someone.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: alienjuggalo

This officer showed way more patience that was necessary in this instance, and that ignorant 17-year-old had what was coming to him up to and included being tazed.

After that, I have no idea what was justified because it appears as though either the officer was running or there was some sort of scuffle going on (yes, people in the midst of getting tazed can still fight back).

I'm not going to side with the officer on this one--although he showed a LOT of patience with this kid--but I'm certainly not going to side with the officer-bashers who think they know all the details but really have no clue as to what actually went down after the tazing.

This has been the strange aspect for me. It didn't feel like the norm. The cop was very patient, and I noted it the first time I watched. I'm just out of sorts over the escalation. Usually, when you watch one of these videos, the cop is pretty much looking for blood from the start. This one seemed pretty reasonable until the # hit the fan.

I think a lot of this stuff absolutely happens because people are flexing rights they don't need to flex in the situation. I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm just saying you could give him your ID and be on your way two minutes later, because in case you forgot, you didn't do anything wrong.

I will never say # to anyone in law enforcement without a lawyer, regardless of what I'm being asked about. I also won't argue with a cop, because it's pointless. Which is why, if you haven't done anything wrong, stop acting like it. Being respectful and providing your ID could seriously save your life nowadays. I don't understand why that's somehow submission to people. I'm not going to mess with a cop, because A. I don't want to die, and B. I would rather be back on my way wherever I was going.

Is stonewalling a cop because you're innocent really the smart thing to do? What exactly would have happened if the kid had given his ID? I'm guessing he would be alive. Maybe he'd feel like his pride was hurt, though, because his one man stance against oppression couldn't happen.

Very strange, though.

I understand, and I agree: the cops will f*n murder you; literally for no reason. That's my point, though. You know they've been militarized and clearly been made immune to legal repercussions. Stop giving them reasons to kill you. They're clearly no longer rational, and they clearly aren't concerned with your rights - because it's not like they will be prosecuted, let alone found guilty of anything.

I imagine it's common place for police to find that those who extremely uncooperative or seem to be making up stories are most often guilty of something. For instance, "I left my license at home" equating to it being suspended or non existent or warrants.

Not saying every time but I bet it happens often. Police get told BS all the time.