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The Gate of Dreams

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posted on Jun, 17 2015 @ 06:54 AM
Gate of Dreams ... from which, at night, the dreams swarm out, black-winged and swift, to visit mankind

The Sumerians saw no difference between the Astral body of a dreamer and the spirit of a ghost, between death and sleep. both the astral soul and a ghost were very closely associated with the wind, as was the God of Dreams Sisig.

In the dream experience the dreamer moves about and acts independently of his stationary body and this may underlie the notion of separate mode of being, as "spirit" as in evanescent manifestation that would arise and pass on like the wind.

One word for it was lil2, and was sig3-sig3, which denoted the god of dreams. Both words mean "wind." The lil2 can be that of a living person or one dead, of one awake or one asleep

Winds and dreams seem at one time to have been considered the same thing for the name of the god of dreams Sisig means "the winds" or "the ever blowing one."

The sign they used to denote this then was 'lil2', what is little known is that all souls were under the jurisdication of the Sun God Utu (later Shamash) and thus in the Underworld by extension his son Sisig, thus it can be seen that Utu was the great Lord of the Dynastic Necropolis at Arali, between Uruk and Bad Tibira;

Utu, the great lord of Arali, After he turns the dark place into light he will judge your case.

Let the child of the sun-god Utu, *light up for him the netherworld, the place of darkness!

Let him set up a threshold there as bright as the moon for all mankind whatever their names be.

For those whose statues were fashioned in days of yore, for the heroes, the young men, and the women!

From there the strong and mighty will march out.

Without him no light would be there during the month Ne-Izi-gar, during the festival of the ghosts

(Ne-Izi-gar a time when the spirits of the dead followed a special passage of light leading from the darkness of the netherworld back into the world of the living for a brief stay. The setting of fire and lighting of torches by each household would guide the spirits of the dead back to the ancestral home, where a ceremonial meal, presumably the offering, awaited.)

The Moon of course is seen as the light of the Underworld and associated with the souls therein, the overall control of the Underworld though was under Nergal who was seen as the Sun in the Underworld.

The youths and the strong men, on seeing the lunar crescent, without him they should not make light!

Sisig the son of Utu makes light in the dark places, Sisig, the father of mankind,....

In essence then the Sumerians were little different than the Egyptians here in seeing the Sun and it's journey through the Underworld as the primary correlation to the journey of the soul in death toward resurrection, they also shared with them the belief that the soul most closely related to that of a bird, in the case of Egypt the Ba bird which could ascend upward toward the Heavens, even through pyramid shafts.

The term eţemmu was closely associated with a person's physical remains. In some contexts, it is spoken of as if it were identical with the corpse, as when eţemmus are "sleeping" in their graves or lying about unburied.

In addition to having an eţemmu, a living being was possessed not only of what we might refer to as his "life force" (his "breath," or napiš-tu) but also of another windlike emanation, namely the zāqīqu (or zīqīqu).

This spirit was imagined as a sexless (and probably birdlike) phantom able to flit about or slip through small apertures, and as such, it became associated with dreaming, because it could safely depart the body when one was asleep.

When zaqīqu is used with amīlaru "mankind", or nišū "people", it appears to mean "human soul" "the zaqīqu(s) of all mankind report to you, Shamash."

It was also seen as the case that while people slept their dream souls could be conversing with the Gods, in this text sleeping souls plead their case with Inanna, who also tended to punish people in their sleep by sending her own wind spirit entourage.

"She having imposed sweet sleep in the homes, while all the lands, the dark headed ones, the people in their entirety, sleep on the roofs, sleep on city walls, eloquent lil2's step up to her, bring her their cases. Then she recognizes the righteous one, recognizes the wicked one."

As was the case with Apollo in Greece all dreams and prophecy were considered to originate in the Underworld, the axis from absolute darkness to brilliant light, in seeing the light of day those dreams are no more except that the rising Sun could be seen as an continuation of them, that the light is restored and regenerated in the darkness.

"things that are in the hearts of men, words that are uttered softly by them, voices of the entire humanity, Sisig reports to you Utu.

Revisions on Sisig

posted on Jun, 17 2015 @ 07:18 AM
Even now, the underworld defies a concrete explanation. I personally liken it (having a contemporary mind) to the universal unconsciousness, but there is a physicality to the concept that does not only exist in academic analysis, or even a spiritual experience.
Places where water runs from the ground or vanishes, deep caverns and calderas, some forests and mountains with bad or mysterious reputations.

In the interests of being useful though, my research into astral travel eventually led me to Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce, which to me marries a lot of disparate concepts into a somewhat workable groundwork for the nature of the astral and dream phenomenons (as well as explaining several troublesome contemporary paranormal phenomenon along the way.)
I see the ideas you presented as being related to the Egyptian anatomy of the soul and given further objectivity by Bruce's theories.

posted on Jun, 17 2015 @ 07:37 AM
Sometimes I wake up from a dream other times I awake from an experience. It's the experiences that leave me in wonder. As far as experiences go, those from the dreaming world have little distinction from an awareness level, than any other experience.

posted on Jun, 17 2015 @ 08:33 AM
a reply to: Unresponsible

Yes there was always the thing about getting closest to the Underworld phenomena through loitering in crypts and caves but that will always be sort of a half way house at best, given the relationship to universal consciousness it can also suggest itself in the secluded grove and the sense of oneness with the environment.

In my own practical Astral research i was always made aware of the close connection to the dead, that apart from meeting the shades of those who had clearly departed and not passed on i was also meeting people who i knew to be very much still alive and being informed that they were dead, that i was also dead, even having the manner of my death explained, just by way of establishing the close connection.

Of course also the dark presence that many experience in connection with lucid dreaming is simply Death loitering in the shadows.

The whole phenomena is one that fades in the light of day and reason, as do dreams, but is suggested as going on to determines one's actions over the course of the day, obviously with those who have strong paranormal experiences this can be quite marked in determining their interests and actions, even forever lingering in a sort of twilight zone, but the suggestion from Sumeria is that all of humanities actions are determined by their dreams and that they can even be judged on those alone, as subsequent actions will be pre-determined by them anyway.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Or at least you don't notice the difference during the experience, but following deeper and extended journeys into the nether regions one can have a heightened sense of one's own physical body, the feeling of fabric against it, the sensation of warmth and cold, hearing the faintest of sounds and breathing in of subtle fragrances, realizing that life is not better for ghosts, even though they can fly.
edit on Kam630167vAmerica/ChicagoWednesday1730 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 17 2015 @ 10:28 AM
a reply to: Kantzveldt

I don't know.. For me I can try to keep my worlds separate, but, if I were to get back into meditation and astral travel.. My demons would not stay in my dreams. They never did in the first place.

I agree with the other poster about Robert Bruce. I found his books, especially the one mentioned, "Astral Dynamics." to be the best, most workable, concept.

My own version? the entire world is psychology. All the myths, and archetypes are psychology (and probably real too but it's of no matter to me).. And psychology IS reality.. So if one were on a hero journey, be it through experiences in physical reality or in dreams or in astral or in thoughts... It's really all very similar in effect on the psyche.

Darkness is definitely how I could travel inward.. Have too much coming in from outside, how can you even see the universe within?

I used to have this scary sensation of falling inside myself.. Where I "my consciousness" was shrinking and falling into the middle of "my body." In effect I was falling forever... Scary scary, but then I would wake into a dream, and I would be shrinking as I walked into the road, to the point getting to the other side was impossible.. scary scary.. Before this my dad was yelling at me, and I was shrinking in my confidence, and my identity in physical reality.. scary scary.. It was all the same thing just in different modes.

Live your life in your dreams as you do in waking life, or even how you want to change your waking life.. I remember a dream that changed my life forever. It was a whale in a big murky tank split into two halves by thick glass. On one end the glass slides open letting this whale into my side of the tank. He has huge teeth and I am small..I am in great fear, and freeze as it comes super close.. As it gets all the way to me, I decide to love the whale instead of fear it. This makes the whale super happy and it nose rubs me like a nose kiss...
It made me sooo happy.. The whale was only acting aggressive out of fear, but the fear was from me.... A mirror...

I've forgotten a lot since my more interesting travels. Could be time to get back in it.

posted on Jun, 17 2015 @ 12:13 PM
a reply to: KnightLight

That's an interesting dream, the wale was a symbol of resurrection after the Jonah narrative, the swallowing up into the darkness and return from it, a symbol of salvation.

posted on Jun, 17 2015 @ 12:56 PM
a reply to: KnightLight

the dream that change my life forever

I was in in a forest.. when suddently this ultraviolet wave of colours (I was very little maybe 5-6? when i had the dream) swarmed the forest..

and all this meteorites where hitting the earth..

I ran into a church.. and was terrified.. they were 4-5 other people

a couple of man came running to the church and said they will rescue us..

so all of us ran into this spot there were 7 holes in a ground (7 gates of hell) the men told the people to keep jumping in and they will be saved and resurrected.

when it was my time to jump something stoped me and told me I have (a necklace with a key or something in that sence)
when I reached for they "key" i realized they key was my heart.

it was when I knew everything I see around me was man made and I refused to jump into the hole with burning flames..

later on in life I read the bible
I realized meteorites where faked everything was faked by the Goverment making people believe it was the rapture
and they killed everyone as necessary

but might be something from past life.. I am horrified of sirens, small planes and the sound they make and submarines.. when I accidentally wound up by one walking through marine museum I almost collapsed :/)
edit on 17-6-2015 by Layaly because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-6-2015 by Layaly because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 17 2015 @ 01:03 PM
a reply to: Layaly

That's beautiful .

posted on Jun, 17 2015 @ 01:36 PM
a reply to: Kantzveldt

That's an interesting dream, the wale was a symbol of resurrection after the Jonah narrative, the swallowing up into the darkness and return from it, a symbol of salvation.

really loved the dream and this answer

I don't even know why

posted on Jun, 17 2015 @ 11:56 PM
a reply to: Kantzveldt

As was the case with Apollo in Greece all dreams and prophecy were considered to originate in the Underworld, the axis from absolute darkness to brilliant light, in seeing the light of day those dreams are no more except that the rising Sun could be seen as an continuation of them, that the light is restored and regenerated in the darkness.

So is the Greek axis twisted 90 degrees? The Sun rises at the East horizon. People wake up in the morning, not noon (unless they have work conflict or drinking or something like that).

Utu in the Netherworld is the pending future each night, and the emerging future each morning, emerging at the place of sun rise where the great gods ratify fates. Dreams are like phantoms or ghosts Steinkeller says, as all dream gods have been equated with lil2 in the lexical texts - but perhaps phantoms and ghosts are the wrong word since lil2 is like no conception we currently conceive of. Each Mesopotamian had a lil2, an invisible agent sometimes called a "dream soul" - Assyrian texts indicate that lil2 resided in the body itself (as kings would grind up the bodies/bones of enemies destroying all but the lil2 form). I wonder if it was by this agent, the lil2, that Sisig is said to impart dreams, and to send collect information for Utu. Or better, if such gods are not the deified representatives of the phenomenon of the lil2 souls that every man possessed. This would in effect make the lil2 Mesopotamian man's permanent connection to the future, his tethering to the wheel of fate, as it were. What lil2 spirits and Utu have in common I believe, is that they are both transferring agents, and what is being transferred is future (or knowledge thereof). Even when the knowledge of a man's inner nature is transferred back to Utu, this seems to be in effect committing the man all the more to his fate, as Utu is also a transporter of the dead to their ultimate abode (they exit through the gate of sunset), and it is perhaps with that information of his inner nature that his soul will be judged.

That makes a lot of sense.

What's kind of funny is when dreaming; wonderful, awesome writing is going on; oh so mighty and world-shaking! Then later after waking up, I write the same thing and get the Déjà vu tingles, "This is it! It's going to be awesome!" And then I finish writing and then read it. At first it seems awesome, but then, after the tingles end, it then seems quite pedestrian.

Because in deathlike dream, even pedestrian seems awesome, when compared to nothing.

How is lil2 pronounced?
edit on 17-6-2015 by pthena because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:00 AM
a reply to: pthena

The Sun was considered at it's strongest at Mid-day, but the actual angle that corresponded to the Sun emerging from the Underworld was 18 degrees beneath the horizon at the point of ultimate twilight, interestingly in the case of Thutmose and the Dream stele his dream did take place at Mid-day beneath the sphinx on the Giza Necropolis at the full extent of the power of Horemakhet-Khepri-Ra-Atum

On the stele offerings can be seen made corresponding to 18 degrees beneath the horizon and 9 degrees above, the first hour of the morning.

The emergence of the Sun at 72 degrees or 18 below depending on how you want to look at it lends itself to pentagonal geometry of course and further by association the five pointed star and Venus as Morning and Evening star.

It's true dreams do have a way of engaging all the emotions and it is hard to put that across if trying to relate them, what they lack is the sense of the physical but can engage all spiritual qualities, also of course they have little regard for laws of time and space and reason in general, so in a sense freedom of sorts.

I think lil2 is just pronounced lil, it's a variant sign according to context, lil in general relates to wind/spirit as in En-lil and Lil-ith.

edit on Kam630168vAmerica/ChicagoThursday1830 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 11:07 PM
a reply to: Kantzveldt

I think lil2 is just pronounced lil, it's a variant sign according to context, lil in general relates to wind/spirit as in En-lil and Lil-ith.

So basically, the discussion on the Mesopotamian board took place in 2007. The text on ETCSLtranslation : t. was last edited 2003 - the word left untranslated. What's recognized as accepted scholarship was in 1930s, recognizing that the word was not understood.

But Dead Sea Scroll & Talmudic literature had a whole made up mythology based on Assyrian misunderstanding of the word. Now is there a conspiracy of silence to not explain the word so that made up Talmudic myths about Lilith can go unchallenged? Not to mention the Crowley and his ilk spinoffs. I'm rather concerned.

According to the accepted religious texts I'm a hopelessly damned abomination, on account of a lil. That kind of hurts my feelings. Maybe I should just withdraw from all the blessed people.

posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 06:16 AM
a reply to: pthena

Yes Enenuru is an excellent discussion board on Sumerology as they have actual budding Sumerologists that can translate , Sisig is quite obscure and the role of Utu and his son in the Sumerian soul scene has required considerable effort to establish, there are parallels with Egyptian thought were Horus receives the Eye of Thoth/Moon in the Underworld to facilitate his coming forth by day, the Egyptians having been totally obsessed with the journey of the Sun through the Underworld left vastly more evidence of their interests.

Talmudic speculations on Lilith and also Istar are invariably absurd but it is those of course that largely inform the popular imagination and misconceptions as you say, Lilith most closely relates to the sexual imagination though so maybe it's all the same anyway however the fantasy is written, given such Dead sea classics as Gilgemish the Giant and his final come uppance on Judgement day i don't think they're the best source for understanding Mesopotamian religion, only the workings of the Hebrew mind.

posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 10:07 AM

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Sometimes I wake up from a dream other times I awake from an experience. It's the experiences that leave me in wonder. As far as experiences go, those from the dreaming world have little distinction from an awareness level, than any other experience.
Dreams are real while they last, can more be said of life.

I have regular mixed up crazy make no sense at all dreams, just like everybody else, but then I also have "experiences", which I am sure most people do too.

I occasionally have a lucid dream, which is so magical and wondrous it is hard to describe, but I also have dreams which I call visits from dead people.

Some of the most fascinating interactions have taken place with deceased loved ones, friends and family. All I can say is that those dreams have an entirely different feel to them. I swear something is going on.

So anyway, the title of this thread intrigued me. Because I often think, or like to think, that dreams or the dream world is perhaps a portal to another dimension. Ok I swear I won't quote the Twilight Zone intro, but there you go.

You are about to enter another dimension a dimension of sight and sound.

I think sleeping and dreaming is so odd anyway, here we all are, dead to the world around us for the most part, but our mind is off having a little adventure.

posted on Jul, 1 2015 @ 03:30 AM
In my experiences, I look any other astral world or underworld, as a map, or construct. It has different regions, that are overseen by different beings, I suppose. I don't talk about it alot, because it's still new to me to talk about my experiences openly. I'm still researching a lot. But, from what I've come to know, those different realms and worlds may very well be real. you have to bear in mind, these beings or entities aren't always at watch as stated in ancient Sumerian text about "The Watchers". If you find yourself in a state of being, in maybe theta or alpha brain activity in sleep, lucid dreaming even, it's easy to get to those places. But, it's like traveling to any foreign place. Helps to know the etiquette, and some form of "language", what's expected of your behavior.

Maybe our ancestors accepted that kind of mind/spirit travel as every day. Conversing or interacting with what we now consider mystical was expected and just, like I said, accepted. Maybe, we mistake archaic text as legend, and get caught up in the rhetoric of it all.

posted on Feb, 17 2016 @ 02:39 PM
a reply to: Kantzveldt

Thanks for this post. I will study it a bit when I get home.


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