Caitlyn is a woman; Rachel is black; what do you want to be?

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Caitlyn Jenner is a woman, so he says. His DNA, his chromosomes, his man parts in tact, all are biologically male. Yet all agree he is a woman and champion him as a trailblazer.

Now Rachel Dolezal who was born a blue eyed blonde female. Her DNA, her genetics are those of a fair skinned, blue, eyed blond, everything society says is "white". Yet she says she is really black. No one is really challenging her, as a matter of fact, it seems that society is going to accept her assertion as a trans-racial person.

My daughters 1/2 Cherokee fighter pilot friend he has decided he is no longer cherokee he is now a narnian, he has self identified as a narnian and feels like he always belonged in Narnia.

I think I have decided I am 16, I really feel 16, and asked my son in law if I should change my birth certificate and go back to high school.
He said, sure, why not, it would probably work.

What about you?

What have you decided to be regardless of your genetics or birth certificate, telomeres, or DNA?

The saddest part about the jenner affair is that we are encouraging a mental illness. And this isn't just some innocent mental illness, it's a mental illness whose suicide rate is ~40%. Mental illness doesn't need encouragement, it needs help.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
originally posted by: grandmakdw
originally posted by: TrappedPrincess

There is no resolution.

I was posting the science, if science fact is bias than are we now to reject science as old fashioned and biased if we don't agree - have an idea or feeling that opposes with it?

The science says that one can not change their biology from male to female, if they die and decompose a scientist will always reconstruct them as male. So at the molecular level they will always be male. That is not bias or being mean, it is actually being objective.

I am amazed at the people who think that simply stating the science behind transgenderism is being a bigoted dinosaur.
Yet the very same people say science in other threads have emphatically insisted that science always trumps religion (an idea, a feeling).

I accept the transgendered, but if one accepts the transgendered, one MUST by logical extension accept the transracial and transpecies. If feelings trump science then one MUST accept anything that anyone decides they are without question.


Because the transracial trasspecies really feel they are another race/species, they go through transformation to look like the other race/species and honestly and genuinely feel like they are something they are not on the biological level.

I have repeatedly stated that transgender who go about it quietly and with dignity are to be accepted because they are being honest and not doing it for the publicity/money/reality TV show etc. But doing it because they genuinely feel that is who they are.

But one can NOT say transgender is ok, but transracial is not acceptable, that is being intellectually dishonest.

I am not proposing any solution except that if one accepts transgender as ok and normal, then by extension we MUST accept transracial and transspecies as ok and normal - because both transformations are based on how one feels, not by any science. If society decides that how one feels is the highest value, then one must also accept that all religious feelings trump any science.
Society has to decide and must think of the implications of each.

I know you don't believe me, but honestly I don't care if you are transgendered, as long as you don't run around telling everyone proudly "I used to be a man" and making certain the entire world knows. OR go into a womans open dressing room and run around with a penis and testicles in full view of everyone and claim one has to be accepted as a woman, instead of being modest and not running around nude with a penis and testicles showing in front of women and girls (as a transgender did at a gym).

As far as some of the people who responded with insults, I have become familiar with them, and they often claim that science is the highest value as far as making decisions, but here they throw insults and say feelings negate science, which is disingenuous.

Solution, there isn't one. And really if one is transgender, I don't want to know, be modest and be fully female and be fully who you say you are and it is no one elses business and live in peace with all. That is my solution, just fully be who you think you are and you will be accepted and thought of as who you think you are. If one feels they are hiding something by being fully female and with a fully female identity and think everyone has to know they were (are) also male, then I have questions about their female identity. Not that they have to hide it, but if one goes about their life living fully and completely as a female and doesn't show off their penis in public restrooms or changing rooms, or feel they must tell everyone they are a genetic male, then live in peace. If that is biased or mean, then so be it.

Grandma...I've been down the science road with people like these. You're not going to get your point through. They seem to believe what they believe and science, DNA, etc. makes no difference to them. Kind of backs up the possible mental problems associated with the syndrome, but that is another discussion for somewhere else far from people who would argue that the sky isn't blue and the grass isn't green if it furthers their delusion. If it makes you feel any better...you are correct.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
DP

Never mind. That joke would be too easy

a reply to: Dfairlite

Except it's not a Mental illness.. i mean unless you have Proof?

a reply to: Darth_Prime

It's pretty obvious. The fact that you don't see it is a testament to how upside down the populace of this country has become. You (and many others) don't recognize mental illness because you celebrate it as normal.

But here, just to humor you. How about the former chief psychiatrist at John's Hopkins hospital. He ought to know what he's talking about right? Well, he says it's a mental illness.

Link

ETA: If I felt like I shouldn't have one of my arms would you recommend I lop it off or would you say I am mentally disturbed?

If you want to chop it off please do... equating Transgender and chopping off your arm is illogical and ignorant, but please do...

the populace is upside down because it would rather discriminate against anyone under the GLBTQ umbrella than treat them like Humans, you don't recognize Humans because you celebrate bigotry

For conversation...

inamerica.blogs.cnn.com...

a reply to: Dfairlite


The American Psychological Association may disagree with that.

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder.

www.apa.org...

a reply to: TrueBrit

A true sage you are TB, do you by chance write novels?
Ah, I would follow you on my grand steed. Have been reading "Don Qiuxote". Don't fight any windmills now.
WIS

Excellent rant GrandMa,

I want to apply for "Sloth" status, not only are they adorable but they they do every thing in slow motion. Yes I am a Sloth.
If this can't be granted I want to be the being, molecule or entity with the shortest life span, get it over with.
WIS

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
If you want to chop it off please do... equating Transgender and chopping off your arm is illogical and ignorant, but please do...

the populace is upside down because it would rather discriminate against anyone under the GLBTQ umbrella than treat them like Humans, you don't recognize Humans because you celebrate bigotry

For conversation...

inamerica.blogs.cnn.com...

Actually, wanting to chop off my arm is a mental disorder called Body Integrity Identity Disorder. But again, I don't expect people who encourage people with disorders to further their disorders, to understand that such things need treatment in place of encouragement.

Here, why don't you deny your ignorance and learn about it. It is nearly identical to being transgender, just with other parts of the body. It is a mental disorder, the fact that you would say "If you want to chop off your arm please do" is very disturbing. Why do you hate the mentally ill? I mean, at this point I wouldn't be surprised to hear you tell a depressed and/or suicidal person to just go ahead and off themselves if that's what they feel like they should do. It's really demented and sick.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Dfairlite


The American Psychological Association may disagree with that.

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder.

www.apa.org...

Guess when that changed? 2011 (going off memory, it was right around that time). I would say a ~40% suicide rate would constitute "significant distress". But hey, I'm just a logical person. I don't deal in the politically correct.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Most of the distress is due to other people's reaction to them, present company included. When even your own family calls you a freak and pretty much disowns you, that can have a bit of an effect.

The transgenders who seem to fare the best are the ones with supportive family who help them transition very early in life (like before puberty sets in). These are the transgenders who transition most successfully, so successfully that people aren't even aware that they were born with a different body.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Dfairlite

Most of the distress is due to other people's reaction to them, present company included. When even your own family calls you a freak and pretty much disowns you, that can have a bit of an effect.

The transgenders who seem to fare the best are the ones with supportive family who help them transition very early in life (like before puberty sets in). These are the transgenders who transition most successfully, so successfully that people aren't even aware that they were born with a different body.

Do you have anything to support this claim? Because according to two studies (One at Vanderbilt University, the other at the Portman Clinic in London) 70-80% of children who reported these feelings had them spontaneously disappear later in life. I would encourage the family and friends of people suffering from such an affliction to be kind and accepting, however, I would not ask them to encourage the behavior. Imagine being a child and having this feeling, then you change your sex through surgery and later on you no longer feel as though you should be your new gender. Yet here you are, mutilated. Imagine the distress. In fact, that borders on child abuse in my opinion.

Another interesting point is that those who underwent surgery mostly described themselves as satisfied, yet, their subsequent psycho-social adjustment was no better than those who did not undergo surgical treatment. So it really wasn't a solution.

a reply to: Dfairlite

I'm not talking about having surgery at age 4. I'm talking about letting your son wear dresses and grow his hair long and calling him a female name, if he expresses the need or desire to do that. I'm talking about a PERSISTENT desire or need. If your child is PERSISTENT about being the opposite gender, you send them to therapy so professionals can evaluate this persistence. If the professionals agree that your child is probably transgender, you can opt to give them puberty blockers to hold off puberty until a more final decision can be made regarding hormone treatment. After all of that (and several years later), if the child still wants surgery, it can be done and the full transition will be much more successful.

Those who fully transition before puberty makes permanent changes have the best psycho- social adjustment. A member of ATS, Jadestar, has posted on a few of these threads with her positive experience transitioning early. She appears to be a very happy, well-adjusted young lady. The key is good therapy, supportive family, and a few years of reflection to make this very important decision.

Now he is Caitlin, first he was Bruce..
It's time to call a truce,
Is Rachel really black or white?
I can no longer can tell wrong from right. ™

to be continued.....

a reply to: kaylaluv

Those who fully transition before puberty makes permanent changes have the best psycho- social adjustment

I'm still waiting for some evidence to back this up. As was pointed out in the studies I mentioned, the people who had the operation answered that they were happy with the change, yet their psycho-social adjustment was not any better. Empirically speaking, this Jadestar person is one of the few, and unless you know them personally you don't know if they're well adjusted. Hell, even if you do know them personally you don't know if they're well adjusted. People can put on quite a facade.

But that's neither here nor there, this is a mental disorder and needs treatment. That treatment is not genital mutilation and pumping them full of drugs/hormones, that much has already been proven. As the old saying goes, adversity is never overcome by weakness.

a reply to: Dfairlite

What about your links? At what age did the people in these supposed studies have their surgeries? Was it before puberty or after?

I think I will believe an entire professional organization that says it's not a mental illness before I believe you, thanks all the same.

a reply to: kaylaluv

BIIB is a mental illness according to this same organization. As was this just a few years ago. Why did this organization change their view on one but not the other? What new science brought this change?

a reply to: Dfairlite

Whats sick is how you devalue anyone under the GLBTQ umbrella.

Being transgender is knowing who you are and being your authentic self, ignorance is equating cutting off an arm to Transgender

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: Dfairlite

Whats sick is how you devalue anyone under the GLBTQ umbrella.

Being transgender is knowing who you are and being your authentic self, ignorance is equating cutting off an arm to Transgender

I do not devalue them. When you break your foot, you go to the doctor and get it fixed. When you suffer from delusions that aliens abducted you, you go to the psychiatrist and work your issues out. When you think you should not have one of your healthy bodily organs (be it genitals or and arm), you go to the psychiatrist and work your issues out.

We all have problems and we all need professional help from time to time. It would be absurd to devalue someone based on their need for help. I don't devalue them, I want to help them get help for their condition.

But you know that, you know I don't devalue them. Your post is nothing less than a guise. You know that it's sick of you to tell people that its ok to act on self mutilation. But you love it for some reason. You get enjoyment out of others suffering. Likely due to an internal conflict of your own, some sort of justification of your own actions and misdeeds.