Five organs - Four Elements - Help needed

I have Issues in connecting the Chinese five element theory directly to the western four element theory. They are like totally different systems. Yet I hope a link could be found if we use the five organ system to understand the nature of the five elements, then relate it to the western school of thought.

Eastern Approach:

Five Organs

Western approach:

The element of the fire, standing for the spiritual, for creativity, mysticism, imagination

The element of water, standing for emotion, feeling, relationship

The element of the air, standing for the intellectual, the logical and scientific

The element of the earth, standing for the materials, the body, the 'down-to-earth-matters'


Anyone?

a reply to: Egoismyname

Well, the only other naturally occurring state of matter not covered is super-fluid.

I'm actually kind of stumped on how to reconcile the two at the moment, though.

Then again I've been up for over 20 hours...

Usually the hump to understanding the difference between the 2 systems is is under standing the metal element in 5 element as ether. But that isnt enough to bring understaningvof relative diagnostic paradigms.

I feel differential diagnosis brings the clearest appreciation for that ...I offer the 5 element/5 Yin/ 5 Yang organ system:

Creation cycle: Fire, earth, metal, water, and wood
control cycle: Fire, metal,:wood, earth, water

both of those cycles (and a third more advanced) are relative to the 5 major yin and yang organs in 5 element so: Fire= Heart, small intestine, (triple warmer and paracardium too)
Earth: spleen, stomach pancreas
Metal: lung and large Intestine
water: kidney and bladder
wood: liver and gall bladder

now in all of the systems of medicine I know well the substances used for medicine fall under those same auspices of energetics as the body creating a kind of plug n play method for use via differential diagnosis.

In the end I have been given greater clarity through following a diagnosis and treatment through the two systems that has usually set me free.

Michael Tiara and his wife Lesley have co authored a series of books going into what you have asked about. Planatary Herbology was the 1st I believe, it didnt answer enogh for me but helped pave the way.

western tends to rely on astrology a great deal as well and some would say therin lay the 5th element to its system...open to debate.

too hard on a phone for this convo...Ill return when I can get on a computer.








a reply to: Egoismyname

Personally, it's earth air fire water and ether.

a reply to: Egoismyname

Another thing to bare in mind is that due to the esoteric manner of the paradigms being discussed elements can appear to be missing that are in fact involved although arrived to in less obvious methods than a cursory understanding allows. For instance a number of people look at Tri-Dosha theory of Ayurvedic repute and think they are only using 3 elements in that system due to the name Tri Dosha, yet the system utilizes 5 when you really get after it:

Elements Earth Water Fire Air Space
Earth Bones Muscles Skin Nerves Hair
Water Saliva Urine Sweat Blood Semen
Fire Hunger Thirst Sleep Fear Coitus
Air Lying down Walking Running Climbing Jumping
Space Avarice Hatred Fear Shyness Desire

www.webhealthcentre.com...

In traditional medicines the world over, there are exoteric as well as esoteric truths...just like reliogions over millenia...inner schools for the initiated and outer schools for the masses. I would consider studying Eileen Neumans Medical Astrology, Nicholas Culpepper and many more...but thats a good start to build the foundation for deep understanding of this VERY deep topic, much deeper than you may know.

a reply to: chiefsmom

in the end thats what matters, as my mentor told me some 25 years ago: " It's quantum...pick a system that works for you and stick with it."

It all comes out in the wash, 5 element theory is the one that resonated with me as well and I agree, 5 elements are present in 4 element studies of the West...its just not apparent in the exoteric studies in the West because of this thing called the Church that liked to kill people for consorting with the devil dontcha know...aaah ignorance can be dangerous for some and bliss for others!

Im not sure if I made the point well but I agree with you

Another quick note.... what you are calling 5 organs...is really 10 organs divided into 5 yin and 5 yang. They correspond to 10 of the 12 most well known meridians in the Oriental paradigm...the other two meridians are the triple warmer (coordination of the 3 processes of intake of energy, processing of energy and exhaust of energy) and the pericardium which coordinates the fx. Of the heart meridian.

I believe medicine is th easiest approach to these philosophies as the Hermetic axiom is very readily aprehended through its auspices. Then the philosophical tenets really open up to be used in a number of arenas.

The Oriental energetic paradigm is utilized in different ways as well...there is 5 element (my prefered) and the 8 arms or 8 humors if you will.




a reply to: Egoismyname

a reply to: BlueJacket

Your input is mostly appreciated here. Btw for that 10/12 meridians I had my thoughts before. Even few times tried to apply it on the zodiac wheel. My last guess goes with Spleen in Libra and Heart in Scorpio as all the other meridians follow subsequently like on the following scheme. At that point when I fixed them it looked amazing discovery, yet nothing else I could combine of the western and eastern methods. I take this overlapping still not proved on 100%, nevermind my astrologist mind suggest it is quite true. (That's why Leos are assh---s ::] *laugs* )