What if Billy Meier was telling us the truth? (he wasn't, he was lying, it's all a hoax)

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: R0CR13
Funny thing is now Bob Lazar claims to have seen a craft at S4 just like the Meyers photo ...

I'm not aware of any Bob Lazar claims of having seen "lying saucers" jammed into trees.

Oh, SO, thanks for the laugh.

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: Argyll

A question can not be a hoax unless it is worded in such a way as to lead the reader into believing a false premise.
The OP presented an idea, asked a question, it was debated.
Then it was declared a hoax...but the question is valid!
Oh well, never mind, I see where this is going.
Walks away shaking his head.

The question was is he telling the truth, as he is KNOWN liar and hoaxer no he wasn't telling the truth.

There is NO point to clogging up the site with more threads or posts about him.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: zazzafrazz

Can you please show me what is the proof that you so obviously consider definite?

No.

That is a very old and boring research exercise you can do yourself.

I'm sorry, but that response says; "No...I don't have anything. Maybe if you look you can find what I don't have."

I've seen some of the material you allude to, but I've not seen anything of sufficient "confidence" to "pass judgment". What I have seen actually raises more flags and questions...

For instance the UFO stuck in the tree...when I first saw that, I thought it was ... odd. Unfortunately I didn't follow up on that back in the day.

Someone told me he was Mossad. And by the kind of Georgia Guidestone message in his, I think he has that black op agenda down pat.

What I don't know is if he is 100% hoaxing, or if he was chosen to bring out some of his real childhood contacts, to create a kind of ranch in Switzerland like James Gillilands and bring real sightings to people who visited, and if he was forced, bullied or volunteered to bring forward this pseudo religious, Georgia guidestones type message and call this higher mind peiadian. Or if his job was to come out strong, of course with this PTB message of depopulation, but discredit ufology.

I believe there have been sightings and contact from his property.

Don't like his pseudo religious, religious scrolls he edited that are BS, etc etc, no pleiadian positive would ever bring a religious message forth, that would be the sign of a renegade instantly, a controller, the Love of Power group, putting people in boxes instead of freeing their spirit, and this has nothing to do with Christ being a real man or metaphor, because if he was real, he was not here to start a religion but to free minds as well, and told people the kingdom of heaven lay within them and spoke of the eye filled with light, in other words ,meditate and seek within and wake up.

Did he have real contact/assignment hijacked by the paramilitary/black ops? Maybe, but the faked pictures to try and bring credit to a message akin to the Georgia Guidestones was not credible. Neither is his message. If he had contact from a group like he is describing, he's distorted their message.

a reply to: tanka418

I don't care what it says to you

I am not ever going to waste my time rehashing this hoax, you and the other posters can take the time yourselves, as I did many years ago it's all there. Just don't ask me to do it for you.


ETA
EVEN BETTER...How about you and Servant of the Light et al, present the dot points on what YOU definitively say was NOT hoaxed. That might be a nice short succinct exercise.

a reply to: Argyll
a reply to: Jonjonj
a reply to: RoScoLaz4
a reply to: aynock
a reply to: Aliensun
a reply to: tanka418

Dear Jonjonj, RoScolaz4, Aynock, Aliensun, Tanka418 and Argyll,

I'm not comfortable at all for the way now some comments are distorting a lot the essence of why the thread was created. The thread was opening with a couple of questions, it was intended as informative for new generations of UfO researchears, or just curious people in general on the topic. Since the beginning it was clearly said that I was neither going to defend or to attack Billy Meier, but to assume a neutral position and I kept my word.

I sincerely found quite exaggerated to claim that a question about a hoax is also a hoax, that is not even reasonable. It is if a question of crime might be also a crime??!! I think that is something even under martial law would not happen, with all respect.

Ufology also includes History of Ufology, and the famous hoax cases are part of it, we can't deny that they existed and challenge the status quo of that time.

If you or anybody else check cautiously the first post it was clear that there were a lot of " it seemed", "apparently" or "it looked" every where, so how can a thread in which the person that start it is posting the situation as merely hypothetical being a one that defend it?

That is a huge contradiction by the way. As a presenter of the thread I was just doing what it was required, to present both sides of he History, allowing defenders and attackers to have balanced opportunity to help in the reconstruction of an entire chapter of the History of the UFO phenomenon.

The thread was never defending Billy Meier, was referring to him as what he was, a conundrum that took time to be exposed as a hoax. Meier was not proved to be a hoax since he started his promotion, it took years to arrive to that point, and also it represented the work of a lot of researchers, who also deserve to be mentioned as his debunkers, after all that case took important part of their careers. There is people right now saying that his photos or films were less than garbage, but as a matter of fact his photos were at that time an enigma that defied many alternative explanations, according with the standards of how to make a hoax then, with the technology of that moment.

Today the perspective of the issue is dramatically different than what it was in the 1970s or early 1980s. The best proof of what I am saying is that even Stan Friedman wanted to travel to Switzerland and investigate better the case, he was suspecting it was a hoax but he didn't have any idea of how to debunk it or what it was behind it.

Now, the statements of Mr Horn, his promoter in America, posted in his website attacking the integrity of the ATS UFO group were more than enough good reasons to maintain the thread opened in that forum as a permanent reference of the case and to show that there is nothing to be afraid of those accusations.

I respect the decision of the moderator to move the thread, but I don't share it, in other words I think is something that possibly will give more fuel to Horn and his followers to continue attacking ATS.

We can't rewrite History, the Billy Meier phenomenon is anyway part of what it was the ufology in 1970s and 1980s and to deny its existence is not very professional by the way, even if we don't like it at all.

This is the same if Historians might try to hide the fact that the Tsar Peter the Great was impersonated by a peasant that challenged the rule of Catherine II of Russia in XIX century, or that Anna Anderson was along 50 years claimed to be the Princess Anastasia Romanoff, or that Maximilian of Habsburg was Emperor of Mexico for more than 3 years or that there were a lot of AntiPopes of the Catholic Church in Avignon, France on Middle ages, or that Augusto Pinochet ruled Chile for about 15 years although he was an usurper of the power.

It is precisely thanks to cases like the one of Billy Meier that Ufology is finding its way as a science, a serious discipline, refining its methods of analysis and also assuming a more cautious and exhaustive way of research, covering all possibly angles of how evidence can be faked.


Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: tanka418

I don't care what it says to you

I am not ever going to waste my time rehashing this hoax, you and the other posters can take the time yourselves, as I did many years ago it's all there. Just don't ask me to do it for you.


ETA
EVEN BETTER...How about you and Servant of the Light et al, present the dot points on what YOU definitively say was NOT hoaxed. That might be a nice short succinct exercise.

Okay, firstly; I'm not saying there is no hoax...I'm wanting more data so I can make such a determination for myself. But, just as you think you are too busy...

I'm an active independent software engineer trying to build "devices" for the Internet. I'm a busy astronomer who is currently designing a robotic telescope for exoplanet search. I'm also an active consultant for different internet based businesses.

So, while I might like to go out and find this on my own, unlike you I actually do not have the time...

What you are saying is that you do not have the data/evidence, and don't know where to get it.

But, that's okay...just as long as you do not lump me in with any others you are unhappy with...
There is also the notion that you are the one making the assertion, thus it is up to you to provide data.

I am reminded of 1950's 'B' movies special effects (really bad ones at that) when I look at the Billy 'evidence'.

I really am not sure how anyone came to believe his stories in the first place.

a reply to: tanka418

You are just being petulant. If you could type that nice long post, you could easily hit the search button on ATS and type in Billy Myer and read the threads yourself. Why the hell are you insisting I do it for you?

The paragraphs about my time and life you seem to want a piece of, is well just kinda weird. Nor do I care if you are a engineer and busy. Time has little to do with me not wanting to hit the search button for you.

Let me state this again:
Look it up yourself.
Don't ask me to do it.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

You are just being petulant. If you could type that nice long post, you could easily hit the search button on ATS and type in Billy Myer and read the threads yourself. Why the hell are you insisting I do it for you?

Because of this assertion...

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: Jonjonj

Having to explain this is less preferable than sticking a fork in my eye, but I'll try .

What if Billy Meier was telling us the truth?

He's not, He is a PROVEN HOAX.

He was perhaps desestimated without solid reasons?

He wasn't as he is a PROVEN HOAXER.

Does that answer "The Question"

No...this does not and can not answer any question...it actually provides no usable data of any sort.

The paragraphs about my time and life you seem to want a piece of, is well just kinda weird. Nor do I care if you are a engineer and busy. Time has little to do with me not wanting to hit the search button for you.

Let me state this again:
Look it up yourself.
Don't ask me to do it.

I don't know where you get that I want any part of your life...I was just asking for a link or two...

You hostility says a great deal about your abilities to accurately analyze data of any sort. It also tells me that you don't really care what the truth is.

So...anyway; you're off the hook. You continue you wee life and enjoy not quite knowing for sure. As for poor ole Billy...he made his bed, he can sleep in it.

a reply to: tanka418

O.K

originally posted by: the angel of light
Meier was not proved to be a hoax since he started his promotion, it took years to arrive to that point, and also it represented the work of a lot of researchers, who also deserve to be mentioned as his debunkers, after all that case took important part of their careers.

Simply not true. Meier's photos and 'information' were suspect from their inception, and very few in the UFO study took the story seriously. As time went on, he was further ignored by serious minded UFO researchers.

Meanwhile, the principle 'investigators' continued to bolster his case through half edited quotes and insanely foolish 'image analysis' which had zero basis in fact whatsoever. In the end, the unwitting, uneducated, and devout found his case interesting and further pushed the case to no avail in the research community. But in the UFO zealotry category, Meier flourished. These people only want data that sounds good - it doesn't have to stand up to any sort of scrutiny for them to think it's solid. They want to believe rather than to actually know something (and you wonder why a Meier photo was used on the 'I want to believe' poster??).

This has always been the problem with the paranormal fields - people don't know the history of what has already been done. Parapsychology has an over 100 year documented history - and if you avail yourself of it, you'll see there's nothing new going on today as far as hands on research goes. New gadgets, but largely the same old thing.

The same goes for UFOlogy. Meier was ignored and put to the hoax basket long before I was around, long before IIGWest was around, and the throngs of others who've dismantled his case.

And really? To dismantle this case, one only need look at the people involved in promoting it. That alone is enough.

The pleadians could very well be real and in contact with Billy, as well as a host of others out there.

I just wish our planet didnt suck so very badly.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

No they are not.
Its all bs.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
The pleadians could very well be real and in contact with Billy, as well as a host of others out there.

I just wish our planet didnt suck so very badly.

So why would they call themselves that

That's our name for the star cluster.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

No they are not.
Its all bs.

Everything is BS you must unlearn what you have learned or empty your mind of the BS that we have all been fed by the powers that be.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

You should take your own advice.

originally posted by: wmd_2008

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
The pleadians could very well be real and in contact with Billy, as well as a host of others out there.

I just wish our planet didnt suck so very badly.

So why would they call themselves that

That's our name for the star cluster.

Maybe they call themselves something more telepathic but we dont have words for it who knows? Thats just what we call them for now. I doubt the universe will be a mystery forever, eventually the human race will discover the mysteries of the universe and come to understand more. But dont hold your breath, I say we have another 2000 years of ignorance to work through.

**ATTENTION**

The Hoax Forum is not immune from the T&C.

Post according to it, or don't post at all, your choice really.

Discuss the topic, not each other, and how about we stop the snarky remarks as well?

Do not reply to this post.

~Tenth
ATS Super Mod

The Pleiades is ancient and central to some our our religious myths and legends.

Sirius is another ancient legend, that told of beings coming from there - long long before the ET/Flying saucer explosion of the 1940's.

So if ET's are real, it makes sense our myths and legends of when they visited before would mesh up with what they tell us today.

Or it could be Billy was a theologian, loved to study myths and legends - and applied ancient ideas to his new mythos. It's how Christianity took hold and root, they took the best and most compatible of the pagan practices and incorporated it into the worship rituals. Perhaps the same idea is thought of here. Add in elements from our antiquity - pointing to origin - to give credence and substance to the new mythos he's creating?

Or it could be - ancient astronauts from those respected areas of the Universe (Sirius Constellation and Pleiades constellation) did once long ago visit civilization and set us on our way... and now they are back.

I don't know.

CdT