Miami cop kills homeless man in park in front of dozens of kids

a reply to: Nibbles

Without getting in to the dry details, it depends on the agency's use of force policy, and part of that is their use of force continuum.

Each agency is supposed to define "levels of resistance" and their corresponding "level of force." Many agencies copy one another for the definitions and policies, others have slightly different definitions. When I say slightly different I mean that one agency may define all baton strikes as one level of force while another agency may say baton strikes to extremities are one level and baton strikes to the head are a higher level. It just depends on the agency.

The whole purpose behind the continuum is to define for the officers what level of force is appropriate in what situation. OC spray may be called for if (using the scenario in the OP loosely) a subject has a length of pipe and is refusing commands to put it down. However, if that subject begins swinging it around at people or the officer, OC spray wouldn't be called for in the use of force continuum because the subject has elevated the threat he presents to the officer and others. A baton isn't going to be called for because a) the officer's baton probably doesn't have the reach that the subject's pipe does and b) no agency is going to direct an officer to get into a baton fight with somebody. Just as it is possible for an officer to kill somebody with a head strike from the baton, it's equally possible the subject could kill the officer with a headstrike from the pipe.

So, a Taser would theoretically be the next step. IF the officer has one. And a fair number of agencies don't allow officers to use a Taser if they're alone in a situation like that. Should the Taser fail in some way, the officer would likely not have time to switch from Taser to sidearm before the assailant was on top of him.

To be clear: I don't know what this particular agency's policies are, how their continuum is defined, etc. I'm trying to explain in broad terms that cover the most bases possible what all goes into a situation like this.

ETA - realize I got into the dry details anyway. Sorry.

LOL...

Thanks for the dry details, much appreciated and much clearer.

What gets me is why each agency doesn't train their officers in something that we all have called common sense!

A daily reminder during briefing about using ones brain correctly before going out on the beat could help to reduce this type of incident from happening?

Kindest respects

Nibs

a reply to: Shamrock6

With the exception of being in my house uninvited, if I shoot a guy swinging a stick, I will be arrested and would be tried, most likely for murder.
Cops have shot and killed elderly guys because they moved their cane (a stick that elderly people use for walking) when exiting their car. The cop basically said 'Oopsie', and that was that.

a reply to: D0MiNAT0R 1OOO



This video is rather interesting regarding Police these days. Different incident but it address some rather pertinent aspects.

a reply to: andy06shake

Russel makes some very good points in that video. Thanks forvthe link I found it worth watching.

I love how they're substituting the word "pipe" with "metal stick". LOL

Poor wittle homeless man was just swinging his wittle metal stick at the blood thirsty demon cop.

a reply to: Bone75

Well, you know, a tweak here and a twist there and voila....

a reply to: Shamrock6

What's funny is the RT article says:

A witness told the CBS4 news outlet that while the man did not drop the stick when ordered, he was not threatening the officers.

But then the CBS article states:

Several campers told CBS4 that Severe was carrying a pole and began swinging it at an officer when he was told to leave because camp was in session.
“The guy from the camp told the police and the police came. He (the officer) told him (Fritz) to drop the weapon he had and he started swinging at the police, and the police shot about seven shots,” said a 13-year-old camper.

Which means it would probably be a good idea to withhold judgement until a video surfaces.

Yes, America. Your cops are evil. They're ruthless killers, all of them. Revolt! Take up your guns and go fight those jackbooted thugs!

Give the government the excuse it's trying to create to declare martial law.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: Shamrock6

What's funny is the RT article says:

A witness told the CBS4 news outlet that while the man did not drop the stick when ordered, he was not threatening the officers.

But then the CBS article states:

Several campers told CBS4 that Severe was carrying a pole and began swinging it at an officer when he was told to leave because camp was in session.
“The guy from the camp told the police and the police came. He (the officer) told him (Fritz) to drop the weapon he had and he started swinging at the police, and the police shot about seven shots,” said a 13-year-old camper.

Which means it would probably be a good idea to withhold judgement until a video surfaces.

There are a couple of videos available here :

miami.cbslocal.com...

and here :



and here :



and here :



and probably others to come in the following days.

In the last video the LEO states 40 to 60 witnesses, most of them apparently being kids... Somehow I can see a sad twist as to how witness accounts will be taken down!

Kindest respects

Nibs

The police are executioners nothing more. Every few hours a citizen will be executed in American streets by our enforcers.

I do not exaggerate at all. M any more that one life is stomped out daily by then. Many more.

My fellow Americans - the.posters here bashing us have every right to do so. The citizens of other countries Would not tolerate this. On fact they DID NOT tolerate this. They had revolutions. They had IRA type groups. They rioted The right way. They got # done.

The American populace? Nothing. A few burned out cop cars and the rest of the populace bitching about their bretheren Taking any action. It is laughable. We have lost. The American people are already Conditioned.

The government is NOT trying to Instill martial law. Some of you are delusional.

Do you not see? Martial law is COMPLETELY unnecessary. The American people are brainwashed And compliant. Police, public
Execution, and prison state are Already
Fully in effect. No martial law needed.

You wont get Your day to resist martial law. It is already Over.

a reply to: D0MiNAT0R 1OOO

Thanks for sharing - if convicted - looks like the PD there may be hiring....

a reply to: D0MiNAT0R 1OOO

Check out these overzealous little piggy's at around 5:50 into the video. If that's a lawful arrest then im the Easter Bunny! Stuff running a Stop sign in that neck of the woods.

a reply to: D0MiNAT0R 1OOO

First, you know next to nothing about the encounter, so to claim that the cops shot him "for holding a metal pipe" is wild speculation.

Second, does this not come into play at all? From your own link:

The man was named as Fritz Severe, 46, who according to the Miami Herald, has a lengthy criminal past with convictions for violent and non-violent offenses in different jurisdictions.

Speaking of different sources, lets look at this one:

Several campers told CBS4 that Severe was carrying a pole and began swinging it at an officer when he was told to leave because camp was in session.

“The guy from the camp told the police and the police came. He (the officer) told him (Fritz) to drop the weapon he had and he started swinging at the police, and the police shot about seven shots,” said a 13-year-old camper.

Even though some on here find it a ridiculous stance, it's best to wait until we get a lot more information that what your post and link provide.

a reply to: D0MiNAT0R 1OOO

Tasers aren't used against an armed person. Why is this something that people ignore every-time an incident happens?

TASERS are not the freaking cure all.

If the man had a metal pipe and motioned to use it against anyone, police or citizen, they have a right to defend themselves and shooting him is well within that right.

Foot in mouth. Never mind.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I think if you back and read my post you will see i am referring to the two officers that appear later on in the video, at around 5:50.

Please tell me you don't condone them dragging the poor soul from his car and repeatedly punching him in the face while holding him down? That poor black man did not get the chance to produce any ID whatsoever.

FYI - IMHO running a stop sign in that state as an example of a losing proposition most defiantly so when those two officers are on duty.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: D0MiNAT0R 1OOO

Tasers aren't used against an armed person. Why is this something that people ignore every-time an incident happens?

TASERS are not the freaking cure all.

If the man had a metal pipe and motioned to use it against anyone, police or citizen, they have a right to defend themselves and shooting him is well within that right.

So banging 5 bullets into this bloke and killing him to defend themselves is then?

I thought cops were fully trained to defend themselves in this particular type of situation with their tonfas without reverting to using their firearms?

All it would have taken if you are against the taser option is to have 2 or three cops surrounding him and one cop diverting him whilst the two others neutralised him with their tonfas and/or pepper spray no?

The gun use (and especially killing him) was too easy an option in my opinion for this type of incident... Unless they just wanted to get rid of a "pesky" homeless guy that is?

Kindest respects

Nibs

a reply to: andy06shake

Ha! I was having a serious buffering issue on my first attempts to watch the video. Didn't see the second clip. Makes vastly more sense now.

Apologies, and I shall delete the previous comment.