The Mandela Effect

a reply to: Shoujikina

You're certainly not alone. A lot of people remember the same geographical differences that you observed. It freaked me out at first too. I also remember Australia being out on its own and New Zealand to the north (northwest, I believe.)

I also remember the Arctic being a continent with a landmass. It was always depicted like the Antarctic (some of the white continent on the world map, most of it not shown.) The Arctic was actually larger than the Antarctic. Now the 'Arctic Circle' is made up of frozen pieces of land off Canada, Finland and other countries. Greenland is huge now, as so much ice has been given to it. And Mongolia was a state, not a nation. This makes China smaller than it was.

And my country of Canada has changed. Labrador was a small island off Newfoundland, but now it's part of Quebec and actually larger than Newfoundland (even though Labrador is still part of the province of Newfoundland.)

I like an alternative theory as much as anyone, and more than most, but this seems a simple case of embedded misconstruction to me.
When I teach clients with a brain injury, say I teach them how to use the Oxford comma for example, when I set them a task to prove learning, I insist they keep their notes and my examples/crib sheet next to them for referral.

This is because multiple teaching research (which I can no longer access, sadly, as I'm no longer a student) have shown that 'errorless learning' is the way to embed knowledge. In other words, if you guess the answer (or spelling of Berenstain) and get it wrong, (perhaps due, as another poster said, tothe cursive font on the cover and certain expectations of more usual letter patterns), then no matter how much I correct you, the tendency, if you return to the question at a later date, is to recall your answer, not the correction. So if students use notes to aid them to answer correctly, they will embed the right answer.

So, if you grew up thinking Berenstain, or Australia is next to Lichtenstein, it appears an abberration, NOTa correction, when that is proved otherwise.

I'd prefer a reality slip, but I really think not

I grew up in Canada, near the US border. I heard hockey announcers mangle the names of the French players to the point of being unrecognizable, Americanizing them, as we called it.

I look at a guy like Brett Favre.

His name is Favre. But every American including Brett Favre calls himself Farve. The V comes before the R, swapping them in the pronunciation makes no sense.


Like the whole country decided the name's country and language of origin meant nothingt, and you guys were gonna say it however the frack you want.

All this Berenstain Bears stuff is the same.

You all remember it as Berenstein because your parents couldn't be arsed to say it right when they read it to you. And then you picked it up. And it implanted into your memory from usage.

Berenstain. Favre.
Berenstein. Farve.

Creating an alternate universe to account for your lousy spelling and pronunciation examples in life is pretty extreme, but also expected at ATF.

But that doesn't make it correct.

a reply to: pilgrimOmega

No, we remember it correctly, just not the way it is now. We pronounced it "steen" or "stine" or "stain" because of the spelling: "-stein." This confused people. I remember being confused as a child because of it and asking my parents about the pronunciation because of it (probably more than once.) I also clearly remember parents (adults) pronouncing it "steen," "stine" or "stain" because of the spelling.

If it had been spelled "Berenstain," no one would have been confused by the spelling. Who goes up to a Mr. Bain and asks: "How is your name pronounced? 'Bain' or 'Been?'"

a reply to: djz3ro

No, not at all.
Personally I dont give a Hoot Mon aboot the "Bears", I am just astounded by "people's" ignorance and I hate to say, stupidity, that they would argue and worry themselves to ruin, that a country, in their mind, has changed....when in fact...Facts show that it is exactly the same as it was 100s of years ago, when white man first mapped it.

I thought you might enjoy the little Scotland thing.......bit of humour what.

Its funny, back in the 1980s Qantas Airlines did a very successful campaign in the USA, using a Koala as a mascot etc.
So entrenched was the "Koala" and Qantas branding, that many Americans thought that a Koala Bear, was in fact called a Qantas Bear......We Aussies were so intrigued with this, that TV reports were even done by Oz news crews in the USA, where ordinary citzens were shown a picture of a Koala Bear, and asked what it was called.......99% or so said it was the "Qantas".....noone knew it was called a Koala.
So I guess, it just goes to show how perceptions are created through multi media, that can be indentured into some people's psyche....regardless of the actual facts.

As So many Americans.....presumably of the under 40 crowd, think Australia and NZ "Use to be different"...there must have been some media or such influence in their younger years that changed their perception, or influenced it anyway.....to be completely wrong, and far fetched, in relation to the facts.

Someone had mentioned some "Game" (Links map or something??) or something that was widespread in the USA in the 1980s, that had Australia in the completely wrong position etc......naturally influencing young minds at the time, to believe the map and create an incorrect memory.
Then when faced with the reality, they think the time line has changed or the World has flipped....when all it is, is their perception drilled into their brains, was incorrect from the very beginning.
Simples.....

a reply to: gort51

You are not listening. I understand that it seems very black and white to you, but it's certainly not. We have vivid memories. We know how things were. I'd rather you call us crazy than stupid, because the one thing I can assert is that there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that my memories are correct. Beyond just remembers of spellings and pronunciation, there are clear memories related to it; for me, being confused as to how to pronounce "Bernstein" because of the "-ein" spelling, and different parents pronouncing it differently because of the spelling. What I experienced was a different life experience than you. I guess you can either understand where I am coming here or you never will. To me it's not that difficult of a concept to grasp.

originally posted by: LoneCloudHopper2
a reply to: pilgrimOmega

No, we remember it correctly, just not the way it is now. We pronounced it "steen" or "stine" or "stain" because of the spelling: "-stein." This confused people. I remember being confused as a child because of it and asking my parents about the pronunciation because of it (probably more than once.) I also clearly remember parents (adults) pronouncing it "steen," "stine" or "stain" because of the spelling.

If it had been spelled "Berenstain," no one would have been confused by the spelling. Who goes up to a Mr. Bain and asks: "How is your name pronounced? 'Bain' or 'Been?'"

There's no proof anywhere, Mr Farve.
I remember it being Berenstain for my 46 years. I I remember, because most adults that read the books to us usually pronounced it "Bernstein Bears", and even at 6 years old, I said, that's not how that's spelled.

This thing exists in your mind, only. And I'm sorry it troubles you so.

a reply to: pilgrimOmega

We cannot prove what we remember to be true, nor can you disprove it. We have vivid memories, and connecting memories. Many skeptics have expressed their opinions on the matter. The 'false memory' argument has worn more than a little thin. The point of this thread is to ask skeptics of the Mandela Effect to explain why so many of us are realizing the same differences in our reality (or 'perceiving' them, if you'd prefer) at the same time. No one has yet answered this question.

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

I thought I explained it rather well.
Sorry if your culture holds "Stupid" as offensive. It is just another way of saying Silly...so dont be silly, etc.
I dont care about the Berny bears, wasnt part of my life.
But the position of a country changing is, well...rather ridiculous, when you think about it logically.

Obviously the couple of people who think Australia and New Zealand have changed position, have been influenced by looking at an incorrect map, some time in their formative years.
And the perception was set in concrete, in your memory banks, for all time. Even though it was completely wrong.
So I have explained it again, If you care to find a map with the incorrect position, from your youth (1980s?)...I would be delighted to see it. Thx.

a reply to: gort51

The idea that someone could be brain-dead for five minutes and miraculously come back to life is rather ridiculous when you think about it.

The idea that we living on a round, giant ball moving around a sun that keeps us warm is rather ridiculous when you think about it.

The idea that reality is just an illusion and physical matter is just tiny particles held together by some magnetic force which simulates all what we perceive in physical reality is rather ridiculous when you think about it.

That argument sounds desperate to me. You know you can't disprove it. There are too many coincidences to explain away: so many people recalling differences in the same exact things--and the same exact alternate versions--all around the same time.

It doesn't matter if something sounds bizarre to you, or implausible. If there are many people involved and you cannot disprove it, it holds merit. Believe me, those of us who are certain about our different memories (of which there are a great many) will never change our minds. This subject may die down and start back up again, but it will never end. Too many people are affected.

originally posted by: LoneCloudHopper2
a reply to: gort51

The idea that someone could be brain-dead for five minutes and miraculously come back to life is rather ridiculous when you think about it.

The idea that we living on a round, giant ball moving around a sun that keeps us warm is rather ridiculous when you think about it.

The idea that reality is just an illusion and physical matter is just tiny particles held together by some magnetic force which simulates all what we perceive in physical reality is rather ridiculous when you think about it.

That argument sounds desperate to me. You know you can't disprove it. There are too many coincidences to explain away: so many people recalling differences in the same exact things--and the same exact alternate versions--all around the same time.

It doesn't matter if something sounds bizarre to you, or implausible. If there are many people involved and you cannot disprove it, it holds merit. Believe me, those of us who are certain about our different memories (of which there are a great many) will never change our minds. This subject may die down and start back up again, but it will never end. Too many people are affected.

OK, a bunch of science sounds ridiculous. But the Bernstein Bears used to live on New Zealand when it was by Africa.

a reply to: pilgrimOmega

Point was made and you get it. The Mandela Effect sounding weird to people does not disprove itself. There are way too many people with the same vivid memories for it to be discounted.

I live on the east coast of Australia. The Australian map is very different to what I know to be true.

Australia is too far north and New Zealand is too far south east. The shape of Australia is distorted everywhere especially the "Gulf of Carpentaria" - that big chunk is just wrong. The Great Australian Bight in the south is too small. There has never been an Italy boot near Adelaide. The monstrosity sticking out of the side of Western Australia near Dirk Hartog Island offends me. The size and shape of Western Australia is almost as disturbing as the two big growths either side of Darwin - we only had one growth before. The outline looks wrong just about everywhere.

Also disturbed by changes to Poland, Germany, Japan, Cuba to name a few.

I am in my 40's and for the first time since high school I looked at my old atlas - exactly the same as the internet.

The previous day I looked at my dictionary that I haven't needed for about 25 years - to check the spelling of dilemna. Is there anyone here prepared to agree with the dictionary that the correct spelling is dilemma?

From Wikipedia's entry on "dilemma"

"The errant spelling dilemna is often seen in common usage. It appears to have been taught in many areas of the United States and all over the world, including (but not limited to) France, England, Jamaica and Australia.[1][2][3] There is no prima facie reason for this substitution error and there is no erroneous parallel to be found with the word lemma, from which dilemma derives."

I suppose if you think that Wikipedia is maintained by the universe collision overlords who have conspired to keep us from learning the truth about the Berenstain Bears and dilemma, then this link will be of no use.

Wikipedia's Dilemma entry

Time slips are so common. They happen nearly every time. Sometimes there are "glitches" though.

originally posted by: pilgrimOmega this link will be of no use

Agreed. Useless.

Try this one - www.dilemna.info...

originally posted by: NaomiAus
I live on the east coast of Australia. The Australian map is very different to what I know to be true.

Australia is too far north and New Zealand is too far south east. The shape of Australia is distorted everywhere especially the "Gulf of Carpentaria" - that big chunk is just wrong. The Great Australian Bight in the south is too small. There has never been an Italy boot near Adelaide. The monstrosity sticking out of the side of Western Australia near Dirk Hartog Island offends me. The size and shape of Western Australia is almost as disturbing as the two big growths either side of Darwin - we only had one growth before. The outline looks wrong just about everywhere.

Also disturbed by changes to Poland, Germany, Japan, Cuba to name a few.

I am in my 40's and for the first time since high school I looked at my old atlas - exactly the same as the internet.

The previous day I looked at my dictionary that I haven't needed for about 25 years - to check the spelling of dilemna. Is there anyone here prepared to agree with the dictionary that the correct spelling is dilemma?

Oh dear. It offends you? why because it shows a version of history that is different to the anglo-centric BS the "Captain Cook" crowd like to teach at Austrlaian history?

en.wikipedia.org...

But in your version of history Cook discovered Australia in the 18th century????

originally posted by: ItVibrates

originally posted by: NaomiAus
I live on the east coast of Australia. The Australian map is very different to what I know to be true.

Australia is too far north and New Zealand is too far south east. The shape of Australia is distorted everywhere especially the "Gulf of Carpentaria" - that big chunk is just wrong. The Great Australian Bight in the south is too small. There has never been an Italy boot near Adelaide. The monstrosity sticking out of the side of Western Australia near Dirk Hartog Island offends me. The size and shape of Western Australia is almost as disturbing as the two big growths either side of Darwin - we only had one growth before. The outline looks wrong just about everywhere.

Also disturbed by changes to Poland, Germany, Japan, Cuba to name a few.

I am in my 40's and for the first time since high school I looked at my old atlas - exactly the same as the internet.

The previous day I looked at my dictionary that I haven't needed for about 25 years - to check the spelling of dilemna. Is there anyone here prepared to agree with the dictionary that the correct spelling is dilemma?

Oh dear. It offends you? why because it shows a version of history that is different to the anglo-centric BS the "Captain Cook" crowd like to teach at Austrlaian history?

en.wikipedia.org...

But in your version of history Cook discovered Australia in the 18th century????

It offends me because the internet maps and old atlases look different to my clear memory.

a reply to: NaomiAus

But what about your memory of Australian history? Did Dirk Harthog ever land on the WA coast in your version of Australian history?. This is a pretty significant little point in Australian history--did it happen in your version of events that dont include the Shark Bay region?.

In my reality I can confirm they have existed since the early 1980's, the plate says the existed as early as 1616 (tho its hard to read now days). You dont think they existed at all--what is your history of Australia?.

I have noticed that photographs where the name is fuzzy and artwork where the name is carved in, are the only places where the original spellings live on:

Berenstein, Shultz, Segal, Haley, and the list goes on.

Theres articles showing up online meant to dismiss the increasing occurance of glitches. Their explanation is 'Spelling Wrong In the PAST'; that teachers spelled the names wrong as they distributed the Berenstein books and as they quoted textbook references to Haley's comets.

My question to that would be how in the world would someone have something personalized with their OWN last name engraved WRONG?!

The only true/debunked widespread mandela effect mispelling so far is 'dilemna' which was spelled and taught as such in independent English-speaking countries with their own curricula like Jamaica (West Indies) and Australia and New Zealand. Textbooks were actually printed with the spelling dilemna and people learned that as the correct spelling.

As for Berenstein, some other forum polls indicate upwards of 90% believe it was always Berenstein. There seems to be alot of people who will simply state 'it was ALWAYS the current spelling' but if we look at how many people actually believe the current spelling is the original spelling, it is relatively very few in most any discussion.

The big question is.. WHY? Why are the spellings of so many famous persons in the media suddenly changing? What does this mean? Are we being shown history can be altered? Or is our reality shifted in some slight way?

And is this just the beginning of even bigger changes might bare witness to? It is peculiar that a portion of our community seems totally oblivious to these changes - but again they are hardly the majority of observers.