Aliens exist: Here is the proof

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: 321Go
However, to move from that to multicellular life took what was then a virus-like infestation – mitochondria. Without this infiltration into our cells we would just be floating around the oceans. This remarkable invasion also has to take place elsewhere. Assuming the planet is the correct distance, orientation, composition and is active, this incredible milestone has to be overcome. This is absolutely not destiny, it's a very lucky fluke.

You have a source for this?

I was more under the impression that multicellular life occurred about 500 million years ago, at about the same time as an extinction event. Indicating that "life" became complex as an evolved survival mechanism...kind of like all other major changes.

You need a source for the impact on mitochondria for cell development? Apologies, I thought it was common knowledge. Without it cells stay single. Googling "mitochondria in cells" will give you plenty of sources.

Creatures moved onto land about 500MA, but complex creatures existed before then obviously.

You are largely correct in that there have been many mass extinction events (where 50%+ of species have disappeared) and almost all of these has triggered a major development in diversity.

a reply to: Emerys
I personally believe there is other life out there BUT and it's a BIG but. Of 8.7 million species on Earth, only ONE is know to have become intelligent enough to reach out to other ET species and that is a reach.

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: 321Go

All stories of alien visitation have massive logic errors that only a human would make.

I'm going to have to call you on this one.

First, let me acknowledge that I have had first-hand encounters, so I know how untrue that statement is.

And as far as I know, logic is a human invention anyway.

But I'm curious, can you tell me the massive errors that only a human could make regarding the Travis Walton case?

Thanks.

Sorry, but I refuse to state them all in detail. However, for a supposedly superior race they do some extremely stupid things.

As an exercise, why not figure out what we would do if we were the visitors. What would we want to achieve once we got to this other world, and how would we achieve that? If you think it would be chopping up their food stock animals, drawing patterns in food crops, having conversations with inhabitants with absolutely no authority or advanced knowledge of any subject, then forgive me, but I won't be flying with you.

Apologies, I don't want to appear offensive or personal, but in none of these stories I have read is any logic or plausible story displayed.

a reply to: UniFinity

Sorry, but I think you've missed the point, which has been to criticize your appeal to common sense and argument from ignorance.

a reply to: Legman

To add some food for thought..

If you were an intelligent species (not as destructive as we were some 200 years ago, but more like the understanding we have now - which isn't too much better but..) and you found a new habitat/species/civilisation, you would observe the indigenous population out of interest and curiosity.

If panspermia happened to be true for example, "higher beings" shall we say, would already know of the existence of humans. Why would they disturb an indigenous population that has already been studied other than to record it's existence in a galactic 'Doomsday book'.

Like I say, with intelligence (hopefully) comes the difference between what we did to Native Americans and other civilisations on this plant. Then again, we did such under a "you have what we want" mentality.

Thus other civilisations would only make themselves know if we had something very specific, that they couldn't find anywhere else in the galaxy (unlikely), that they wanted.

Watch the void.

Polls suggest 1 in 3 Americans believe aliens have visited earth. What's with 4 out of 5 ATSers believing they haven't.

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. BUT IT'S A CONSPIRACY! !

originally posted by: bally001
Can anyone please produce this "tangible" evidence that aliens don't exist.

Kind regards,

Bally

Are you suggesting that we should all accept the existence of everything that C be thought of until proven otherwise?

That's ridiculous and foolish. It is up to the one making the claim to back their stance with evidence. Not the other way around.

Same applies across the board. We see this with theists vs atheists. It isn't up to the atheist or skeptic to prove a lack of being. That argument assumed there is existence to begin with, without verification and is illogical and false from the outset.

originally posted by: InnerPeace2012
a reply to: yourignoranceisbliss


Brain-dead is the reason why aliens don't exist, logic speaks for itself. The majority thinks Aliens don't exists, so it be suicide for any intelligent being to land their craft in a place filled with close mind folks with weapons

Imagine what would ensue if their was such an encounter.

Peace

Now you're equating the existence of alien beings as being the same as alien visitation.
The only thing those two concepts have in common is that neither can be verified.

I would think most people can assume there is life somewhere in the universe beyond the Earth, based solely on the age and astronomical size of the universe, but a vast majority of those same people would not subscribe to the idea that aliens have either been here to Earth, or frequently come here with an agenda. They are two entirely different things.

a reply to: WhateverYouSay

3 in 5 Americans believe in God. Is God therefore real based on this fact alone?

Here's a statistic you should be worried about: the average American child spends 5000 hours watching TV before they get to kindergarden. What are they watching? How are their imaginations being dictated to in a way which will alter their later life? Is this related to the fact that America is the most paranoid and skeptical of any other nation on earth?

From what I've seen, people here will scrutinise, question and research every claim made, and not take them at face value. That's not conspiratorial, that's being an independent, inquisitive individual. What you normally call sheeple are the people who will accept anything without question.

originally posted by: WhateverYouSay
Polls suggest 1 in 3 Americans believe aliens have visited earth. What's with 4 out of 5 ATSers believing they haven't.

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. BUT IT'S A CONSPIRACY! !

Probably means you should be proud to be a part of an Internet community that obviously has a higher collected intelligence than the average American.

Means that the good people here parse the fallacys, lies, and hogwash from the real and possible.... Just for you.

The big trick, is that the Universe could be TEEMING with life, even sentient life, but the distances make it unlikely two will ever meet, unless there is some means of bypassing the light speed speed limit.

For example, we've been beaming messages into space for decades, but even if a civilization 100 light years away received them, and answered, we'd STILL be waiting for the response to get here.

So, if we accept alien visitation, we also have to accept that some form of tech exists to bypass this limit, like something that creates a traversable wormhole, etc.

Of course, proof of aliens visiting us is different than proof of alien life.

Personally, I think we'll find non-microbial life right here in our own solar system, swimming in the sub-surface oceans of certain outer planetary moons.

originally posted by: L.A.B
a reply to: Legman

Like I say, with intelligence (hopefully) comes the difference between what we did to Native Americans and other civilisations on this plant. Then again, we did such under a "you have what we want" mentality.

Thus other civilisations would only make themselves know if we had something very specific, that they couldn't find anywhere else in the galaxy (unlikely), that they wanted.

Watch the void.

The one thing we'd probably have is ourself and other species of animals, but with intelligence, comes disregard for emotion. Think of what we do to chickens, practically kill them with no form of remorse because they have what we want so intelligence would only amplify the issue but then there's a chance they might also be able to recreate it and need not show violence at any level.

originally posted by: 321Go
You need a source for the impact on mitochondria for cell development? Apologies, I thought it was common knowledge. Without it cells stay single. Googling "mitochondria in cells" will give you plenty of sources.

Creatures moved onto land about 500MA, but complex creatures existed before then obviously.

You are largely correct in that there have been many mass extinction events (where 50%+ of species have disappeared) and almost all of these has triggered a major development in diversity.

Well, I have searched the role of mitochondria, and find nothing about how it allows cells to reproduce. Though, it does seem to allow more energy within the cells.

What I did find is that mitochondria is/was another type of bacteria, as opposed to a virus, that some simply say was "eaten" by one of the other bacteria like life forms. A symbiosis was then formed that allowed the new "mix" t survive better than the bacteria without the symbiosis...evolution at it's best...

There seems to be little evidence supporting complex life before 500 million years ago.

I also found this:

Astrobiologists are now using archaea to study the origins of life on Earth and other planets. Because archaea inhabit places previously considered incompatible with life, they may provide clues that will improve our ability to detect extraterrestrial life. Interestingly, current research suggests archaea may be capable of space travel by meteorite. Such an event could have seeded life on Earth or elsewhere.

-- learn.genetics.utah.edu...

In one theory I read, it was these "archaea" that became mitochondria...so I guess there's another point for panspermia.

originally posted by: Gazrok

The big trick, is that the Universe could be TEEMING with life, even sentient life, but the distances make it unlikely two will ever meet, unless there is some means of bypassing the light speed speed limit.

It really get to me how most people think that some sort of "FTL" is required, and how "FAR" away ET lives..

There is a planet around NU 2 Canis Majoris, in the habitable zone...it is much older than Earth, and at 64 light years wouldn't even take a Human life time for One to travel the distance...for instance...I'm 68, so...I could have been born on NU2 C.M. an then traveled to Earth...and been here for nearly 4 years...

There are sub-light solutions to the same question; yet most all of y'all ignore them...

Alpha Centauri, a short 4 light years from here...is somewhat older than Earth, and could easily harbor advanced space faring life...that would be a rater short trip even at sub light...

There are other stars and planets that are similarity close to Earth and would not require FTL to travel the distance.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Personally, I think they should say "life or technology as we know it".

I would say "reality as we know it". Think about it. If there are "interdimensional" beings or beings with advanced technology that all our known science can't detect, we are really talking about our concept of reality. If science can't detect it or measure it or define it then it really doesn't conform to our understanding of reality. so can we really have evidence of something that is not defined or known? There is definitely evidence of something with all this I suppose. Could it be evidence of something purely psychological? Is there anyone qualified to answer that? I have not seen anything to eliminate that possibility nor any reason to think that is all there is to it. Certainly not something physically"real" as we know it.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
If there are "interdimensional" beings or beings with advanced technology that all our known science can't detect, we are really talking about our concept of reality. If science can't detect it or measure it or define it then it really doesn't conform to our understanding of reality.

Which is all the more reason for us to get it straight, go forward, move ahead, and try to detect it. It's not too late.

a reply to: draknoir2

Whip it.

Whip it good.

Our ego tells us we are the only intelligent life form in the universe. Our egos are also the reason why we will never accept the fact that their are other life forms out there. There is. I've witnessed it. Whether you want to believe me or not is not my problem. They are also way more intelligent than us and won't even bother with us.

originally posted by: L.A.B
a reply to: Legman

To add some food for thought..

If you were an intelligent species (not as destructive as we were some 200 years ago, but more like the understanding we have now - which isn't too much better but..) and you found a new habitat/species/civilisation, you would observe the indigenous population out of interest and curiosity.

If panspermia happened to be true for example, "higher beings" shall we say, would already know of the existence of humans. Why would they disturb an indigenous population that has already been studied other than to record it's existence in a galactic 'Doomsday book'.

Like I say, with intelligence (hopefully) comes the difference between what we did to Native Americans and other civilisations on this plant. Then again, we did such under a "you have what we want" mentality.

Thus other civilisations would only make themselves know if we had something very specific, that they couldn't find anywhere else in the galaxy (unlikely), that they wanted.

Watch the void.

Actually someone mentioned something on ATS here a few weeks ago that really made me pause. It was something like "We do not have treaty or pacts with spider monkeys, do we?"

Good post. I agree with it.

a reply to: tanka418

Mitochondria completely changed the role, lifespan and development of cells. It was a vital step to our, and everything else's, development. And yes, it is an organelle, not a virus. I think I used the phrase virus-like rather than virus, but I'll check. Mitochondria is fundamental to multicellular development, and without it life would remain single-celled.

I think you may have got your dates mixed. Creatures started to move onto land about 500MA, but complex life was abundant in the seas from about 200MA or slightly more. Google could probably help you out here.

Archea did indeed live everywhere on this planet, and the evidence that they came from somewhere else can be compelling, depending on your interpretation of the data. However, archea don't fly spaceships or abduct people or draw shapes in corn. The jump from organelles to beings is infinitely large and takes billions of years of development. Yes, it could have happened elsewhere too, and I hope it has, but the chances of it happening in a near-identical or even remotely close way to ours is almost impossible.