Jeb Bush In 1995: Unwed Mothers Should Be Publicly Shamed

One of the reasons more young women are giving birth out of wedlock and more young men are walking away from their paternal obligations is that there is no longer a stigma attached to this behavior, no reason to feel shame. Many of these young women and young men look around and see their friends engaged in the same irresponsible conduct. Their parents and neighbors have become ineffective at attaching some sense of ridicule to this behavior. There was a time when neighbors and communities would frown on out of wedlock births and when public condemnation was enough of a stimulus for one to be careful.

Source

And this gem...

Bush's ideas about public shaming extended beyond unwed parents. He said American schools and the welfare system could use a healthy dose of shame as well. “For many, it is more shameful to work than to take public assistance -- that is how backward shame has become!” he wrote, adding that the juvenile criminal justice system also "seems to be lacking in humiliation."

Think he's fundamentally changed these opinions in 20 years? If not, maybe he needs to start the trend a little closer to home. Like with his dopey brother.

As governor of Florida in 2001, Bush had the opportunity to test his theory on public shaming. He declined to veto a very controversial bill that required single mothers who did not know the identity of the father to publish their sexual histories in a newspaper before they could legally put their babies up for adoption. He later signed a repeal of the so-called "Scarlet Letter" law in 2003 after it was successfully challenged in court.

Seriously? Tell me this didn't happen, please.

Well they went all the way back to the 70s for the old socialist fella. (Can't recall his name)

It's only fair that the media balance the books with a two decade old story.



The Media are funny sometimes.

Bush's ideas about public shaming extended beyond unwed parents. He said American schools and the welfare system could use a healthy dose of shame as well. “For many, it is more shameful to work than to take public assistance -- that is how backward shame has become!” he wrote, adding that the juvenile criminal justice system also "seems to be lacking in humiliation."

Regardless of who said it, I agree with this particular point. It seems living off the taxpayer is the "in" thing to do these days.

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

Bush's ideas about public shaming extended beyond unwed parents. He said American schools and the welfare system could use a healthy dose of shame as well. “For many, it is more shameful to work than to take public assistance -- that is how backward shame has become!” he wrote, adding that the juvenile criminal justice system also "seems to be lacking in humiliation."

Regardless of who said it, I agree with this particular point. It seems living off the taxpayer is the "in" thing to do these days.

Well, this, as well that I think the OP misses the point--that societal pressure and social mores can be the most effective at modifying negative behavior.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

I would personally call this a myth, albeit a very persistant and popular one among some.

No one, but for maybe a very, very few, wants to be so poor that they need to be on public assistance.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Shaming though? Seriously?

a reply to: ~Lucidity

There is public shaming now.

If you disagree with gay marriage, you are publically shamed.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

I would personally call this a myth, albeit a very persistant and popular one among some.

No one, but for maybe a very, very few, wants to be so poor that they need to be on public assistance.

Which part is a myth? Can you honestly say that the public school system has nothing to be ashamed about? It, along with the welfare system, are corrupt and broken.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ~Lucidity

There is public shaming now.

If you disagree with gay marriage, you are publically shamed.

Excellent point Beezzer! I better watch what I say lest be labeled welfare-phobic!

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ~Lucidity

There is public shaming now.

If you disagree with gay marriage, you are publically shamed.

Excellent point Beezzer! I better watch what I say lest be labeled welfare-phobic!

Just call yourself a Christian (especially on ATS) and see the public shaming on religion.

There is and always has been public shaming.

It's just that the ethical compass swings where ever the wind blows.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Shaming though? Seriously?

That's a bit of hyperbole isn't it? I get the emotional response, but the facts of the matter is there is a point in that social mores and a sense of "shame" inspires better personal behavior.

Great Idea Gov. Bush...

Perhaps we could force those mothers to get a tattoo on their arm so we could identify them or a scarlet letter pinned to their clothes so they could get the proper scorn from good upstanding folks like us....

They definitely need to be identified somehow....

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Shaming though? Seriously?

That's a bit of hyperbole isn't it? I get the emotional response, but the facts of the matter is there is a point in that social mores and a sense of "shame" inspires better personal behavior.

Hyperbole?

As if there are no alternatives to shaming. As if people in a bad situation need it made worse.

Shame on you.

Loved this comment to the article:

Actually, not a bad idea. But to make it work, this should be extended to all citizens. Divorced parents, parents of delinquent children, parents of children arrested, parents investigated by social services, parent who lose their jobs and cannot afford their children, parents of politicians caught in lies or deeds, parents of any grown child committing any crime, parents of bankers and wall street executives who steal from the rest of the country, parents of the Enron executives, parents of police officers caught on camera committing civil rights violations, and more. We can post their pictures all over the internet, and have weekly parades of them in public wearing letters or symbols for each child's transgression. Sort of like being a Jew in parts of Europe in the late 1930's, but instead fair and egalitarian for all, which the GOP would want.

This one is good food for thought as well...self-applied.

"Shame" can only be self-applied. When imposed by a group it is only psychological ABUSE as a means of controlling conformity to the mob...

But yes, by all means, bring back the burning times.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Regardless of who said it, I agree with this particular point. It seems living off the taxpayer is the "in" thing to do these days.

Isn't that exactly what Jeb Bush does? Live off the taxpayers?

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

Regardless of who said it, I agree with this particular point. It seems living off the taxpayer is the "in" thing to do these days.

This is highly inaccurate and a huge generalization. The vast majority of those receiving public assistance are the elderly, disabled, and the working poor.

This idea that there are throngs of welfare queens, perched atop thrones of gubberment cheese, with scads of illegitimate children.... is a very common misconception that is propagated by ignorance.

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Regardless of who said it, I agree with this particular point. It seems living off the taxpayer is the "in" thing to do these days.

Isn't that exactly what Jeb Bush does? Live off the taxpayers?

I give up... does he?

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ~Lucidity

There is public shaming now.

If you disagree with gay marriage, you are publically shamed.

Shamed or disagreed with? If shamed, that's not right either. You're entitled to your opinion, but does anyone really care y care about what you think about same-sex marriage or unwed parents? Is it your business somehow?

The only acceptable societal behavior is the one you and some others agree with?

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Shaming though? Seriously?

That's a bit of hyperbole isn't it? I get the emotional response, but the facts of the matter is there is a point in that social mores and a sense of "shame" inspires better personal behavior.

Hyperbole?

As if there are no alternatives to shaming. As if people in a bad situation need it made worse.

Shame on you.

So let me get this straight. You are trying to do to me what you are bitching about him doing? Hypocrite much? The facts of the matter is that social mores and societal expectations change behavior more than anything else, even fear of legal action. It is rather ignorant to dismiss that aspect of societal behavior.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Shaming though? Seriously?

That's a bit of hyperbole isn't it? I get the emotional response, but the facts of the matter is there is a point in that social mores and a sense of "shame" inspires better personal behavior.

Hyperbole?

As if there are no alternatives to shaming. As if people in a bad situation need it made worse.

Shame on you.

So let me get this straight. You are trying to do to me what you are bitching about him doing? Hypocrite much? The facts of the matter is that social mores and societal expectations change behavior more than anything else, even fear of legal action. It is rather ignorant to dismiss that aspect of societal behavior.

You got it. Intentionally. How'd that feel?