Pope is about to ban popular catholic apparition site Medjugorje, after 2 years of failed reforms

I am not so sure what is more dangerous. St Ephraem the Syrian says otherwise, he described the rapture in 5th century as if he had read a protestant textbook. Pope Benedict chose to quote him, not on the rapture, in one of his homilies.

I and you may say everything, but we are nowhere near to responsibility of a pope. We will have opportunity to discuss it the next time,June 18 the release of the encyclical on ecology. It is he who says what he says.

This one is not the best moment of the papacy of Francis. Perhaps better moments will come. He ridiculed the seers who have daily apparitions, saying: “exactly what message Our Lady will be sending at 4’o’clock this afternoon” In fact he must have known the apparitions are 6:30 - 6:45. The Great Sign promised by Virgin Mary is to occur some 20-30 min after the apparition to Vicka, that makes 7 - 7:15 PM local time. That could matter, if we are speaking of a rapture event (it is secret how could we possibly know?)

There were bad popes, there were good popes. History judges because no one of the mortals dared to judge them while alive. Actually it happened several times with more than one pope, or emperors against popes.

The pope is not infallible, what he said about Medjugorje is his view. Or his staff view. They don't own the apparitions. If it is not Virgin Mary, why don't they say it clearly: extraterrestrials appear to the mind of the seers? I don't think this is the case with Medjugorje. The choice to attack Medjugorje, and not one of the many other apparitions is a bad choice. It will antagonize the already antagonized church.

The bigger problem is they do that with all apparitions. As you said they did it with Garabandal. And singled out Fatima as true only after they took full control and practically changed the messages. Where is their era of peace?

What is it they are afraid so much? May be extraterrestrial angels in those secrets who want finally to help us out of the misery? Because now we live as if Jesus never came and died. No excuses of "one's cross" help, a phrase coined in christian era long after Jesus by the church fathers who composed the Gospels. What we have now, 20 centuries after Jesus, couldn't be worse, both spiritual and physical. Oh it could, nuclear ashes and radiation. Or even worse- the antichrist. Is it where they are leading us to? They will deny it. Let see what they will tell us next. Will they promote some SELECTED ET whom they already contacted. Not necessarily the angelic ones that Jesus talked with, 'angels will descend upon him", stuff not recorded later in the Gospels. You know, those church fathers were not clever so much, if they left out insights of what was really about. Or perhaps God allowed them to change it only so much, leaving 1% intact so we could know the truth and be saved.

ow could he speak like that of the Gnostic gospels comparing with Medjugorje? Divide and conquer. I expected him by now to admit other books of Jesus, where they say Jesus was married. Francis is a big disillusionment. Perhaps not the great delusion itself, that doesn't need to be clothed in pope's clothes. Some say, the false Christ already arrived in Jerusalem, secretly.

originally posted by: 2012newstart
The bigger problem is not Medjugorje, it is they do that with all apparitions, and crowned Fatima only after they changed the message. What is it they are afraid so much? May be aliens in those secrets who want finally to help us out of the misery?

Heaven doesn't care about space aliens.
Heaven cares about souls.

And if space aliens wanted to help us out, they would.
They wouldn't be telling the Mother of God to go and chat with us.
And they wouldn't send messages via a child here or there over hundreds of years.
They'd just show up and do the job themselves.

I am not so sure what Heaven cares of, as you seem to be.

Regarding who should "approve" apparition of Heaven, is it the bishop, the pope?

How about those instances when the popes themselves had a vision? There were many in history, the two most recent are: Leo 13 about the 100 year reign of Satan, and St Pius X about one of his successors who would walk on the corpses of his fellow servants to get out of the Vatican in exile as hostage of brutal people, after which he would be killed.

Who "approves" those apparitions? No one. They are said by popes.
The popes took too much power. It is a time to remember some apostolic rules. The Eastern patriarchs could be theoretically brought down as such by the Synods. The most recent case was the Greek patriarch of Jerusalem who was voted to step down by both the Jerusalem orthodox church and the Constantinople united synod. There should be at least theoretical possibility for a pope to be voted down, if he is voted up. The pope is not god, even less his corrupt officials. Now they judge some innocent apparition. Yesterday they judged people to be burned. Tomorrow, will they support the antichrist the civil leader who will take over the world, according to the tradition? Perhaps they will, those who survive and collaborate they will support him. Let face the truth. Especially if you rule out the rapture and are readied to become a martyr? Or you will give up the so called faith the moment the then-"church" officially supports the new godless system?

originally posted by: 2012newstart
I am not so sure what Heaven cares of, as you seem to be.

Basic theology. Heaven doesn't care about space aliens visiting earth. It cares about salvation. Any 'christian' claiming that heavenly apparitions are talking about space aliens rescuing humans is just plain not understanding theology.

Regarding who should "approve" apparition of Heaven, is it the bishop, the pope?

In the Catholic Church, the local bishop has full authority to approve/disapprove apparitions. I provided this information in my first post. The link given to ATS Guide to Modern Apparitions. Rome can also approve/disapprove if it gets elevated to that level (as in the case of Medjugorje when Rome removed the ability of the local bishops to decide because there was too much infighting between them). But usually the local bishop is considered to be speaking for Rome in these matters.

How about those instances when the popes themselves had a vision? ..
Who "approves" those apparitions? No one. They are said by popes.

Nope. For it to be 'approved' would mean that it would have to go through the church channels just like others. There is a board of inquiry and a devils advocate and everything.

originally posted by: 2012newstart
There should be at least theoretical possibility for a pope to be voted down, if he is voted up. The pope is not god, even less his corrupt officials. Now they judge some innocent apparition.

The Catholic Church is NOT a democracy. It is a theocracy. Power doesn't come from the bottom up. It comes from the top down. This is how Jesus set up His church (Matthew 16:18-19). He gave Peter the power over His Church and that Heaven would 'hold bound' whatever Peter bound on Earth. Peter set up apostolic succession. Matthew 16:18-19 are as valid for the pope today as it was for Peter 2,000 years ago when Christ Himself gave him the position of Head of His Church.

The pope isn't God and doesn't claim to be. He is considered to be infallible when making pronouncements of doctrine 'ex-cathedra'. That's the only time.

It is the job of the Catholic Church to judge apparitions. They have 2,000 years experience in this matter. They aren't subject to emotional influence but judge based on theology alone. If Medjugorje passes the tests, it will be approved. If it doesn't pass, it will be condemned. The church CAN change it's mind in the future as it did with the revelations of St. Faustina and the Divine Mercy. The church first said it wasn't supernatural and it was on the 'no reading' list. But later, with further information, changed to 'approved'.

No Catholic is obliged to believe in any approved apparition. However, when an apparition is condemned, a Catholic is obliged not to promote it.

Bayside is condemned. Garabandal has been declared not supernatural three times, and those verdicts have been upheld by EIGHT bishops in a row. They have the same authority as Rome in this matter.

I saw supernatural things in Medjugorje. The laws of nature were suspended and broken. I experienced internal spiritual events that were not of my making. I have no doubt that there are supernatural and spiritual things happening in Medjugorje. NONE of it has to do with space aliens (that's absurd). It has to do with either the divine or the demonic. It's up to Rome to decide which it is.

Don't be so sure of the space aliens, because they are also creatures of the same God, and Thomas Aquinas was stopped by authority of writing, God didn't create other worlds, because that would restrict God's creativity.

The Rapture is Early Church Teaching
"For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins" (On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373). joshuanet.org...

I wonder, why the Roman church being once first among the equals, despite its trend to change with the new times, is so absurd in some things? Now is the apparitions. Then will be the divorce, the married priests, then will be the aliens who sooner or later will appear. Always there is a problem that Rome decides it. It was not meant to be so, Jesus never said to be so. Jesus never enthroned Peter to be king in Rome and to decide things the way the popes decide them. I know of the keys. But let not forget Peter has more successors, including the patriarchs in Antioch, and thru Marc, the patriarchs in Alexandria. Perhaps it is the Eastern churches who will continue regardless whether we are in the End times or not.

What you answered me is pure theology of the Sunday school, I appreciate it but I don't have to agree with it. Pope's infallibility is a newer dogma of Vatican 1 council, not accepted by the other Christian churches. And it won't be. It can't be accepted. The pope can't be infallible because he is not god, as you correctly noticed.

originally posted by: 2012newstart
Pope's infallibility is a newer dogma of Vatican 1 council, not accepted by the other Christian churches. And it won't be.

Of course they won't accept it. It's bible teaching (Matthew 16:18-19) that Jesus did indeed 'enthrone' Peter as head of the church, but if they accepted it then they'd have to admit that Jesus started the Catholic church via Peter ... and that would put them all out of business.

As for the rest -
- The Rapture is not biblical. Saying it is, well ... that's like trying to put a round peg in a square hole

- Space aliens exist (See Drake Equation) but Heaven isn't sending messages about them. Heaven talks about the spiritual, not the mundane.

- If aliens wanted to tell us about themselves, they'd just show up and not leave it to children to get mixed up messages.

- Married priests? That's a discipline and not a dogma. Disciplines can change with the needs of the church. Dogma is unchanging. So any change on priests being married falls within the rules of the church. Disciplines can change.

a reply to: 2012newstart

I have a lot of doubts about this guy, but banning such a site seems like a good move. Getting the attention back on Jesus is a good thing.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I will not be the only stupid defender of Medjugorje in this forum. Let those Medjugorians and Catholics come out of their holes and defend what they believe in!

I started the thread because it seemed to me unacceptable the Vatican to use methods of silencing known from the past. Practically, what the pope's and commission's ruling mean, is to restrict the free gathering of devote people to hear the visionaries speaking. That in the era of democracy, in democratic countries? Isn't it overpassing of the church into the civil area of responsibility? Those people do nothing bad, first of all, who gather and pray. Even if the apparitions are not coming from Heaven. Practically, the Vatican or anyone doesn't have jurisdiction to ban free movement and gathering of people who are citizens of democratic countries. Having that as bottom line, the Vatican further doesn't have the right to ban gatherings in churches that do not belong to Rome diocese. When the scandal of pedofile priests erupted, the Vatican lawyers declared in the US the bishops in the different countries are not employers of the Vatican. I don't know details of property owners, who owns the property of the churches used as gathering. The local bishop personally, the whole administration of the local church leaded by bishop/archbishop, or the pope in Rome. I doubt it is directly owned by the pope.

Cardinal Schoenborn allowed Ivan to have apparition in the cathedral of Vienna and afterwards he himself served a mass. At the end, Ivan was invited for brief talk to the crowd. Everything civilized, devote, no one cursed Jesus.

Now the pope says the parents should remove the computers from their kids' rooms. He assumed the kids watched filth. How about if the innocent kids don't watch filth but electronic games and chat with friends on Twitter? Doesn't the pope have a twitter too, although he never read internet? Tomorrow? Where we are heading to? Will he ban watching Star Wars Serials or what? In the name of Religion, in the name of Jesus Christ? Come on! That era is gone!

Or may be it is not. If not we are heading towards something very terrible, again "in the name of God". I think however it is gone, and we will see surprising changeover in Rome, against all odds. Because after all, they are also human, and the 1 bln church and 3000 bishops, hundred thousands priests would say their word, sooner or later. For now, Francis reform fails big, and fails from himself in first place. He should stop dropping bombs and should concentrate on the lauded reform. How about card. Maradiaga, his reformation's head of staff? He is Medjugorjan too.

Becoming irrelevant on relatively small things, such as the TV and computers, the pope risks to lose relevance for the bigger things as well. How could I believe he is going to release a good stand on environment, on planetary and human, and even global issues, if he lost credibility on the issues above? How could I be sure the ET he wants to baptize, the Martians, are exactly the good ones I would like my kids to befriend tomorrow? Everything is connected. if the pope feels he is not up to date, if he feels he is from the stone age as he mentioned, it is still not too late to step down with dignity. And not to wait for interior revolt inside the Church. We are living 15 years into 21st century and it is just absurd what I hear on internet as papal views on this and that. He may serve better God and men in a monastery in the Andes. He doesn't need to be the voice of the 1 bln church if he is not up to date to do it. Regardless of possibly his good otherwise motivations, it doesn't work like that in 21st century.

The same is valid for the Great Inquisitor. And I am tempted to post a clip from Star Wars Rebels about the Inquisitor master of Dark Side (but you can google it). Actually he wasn't so bad, he just fulfilled his duties the way he understood them. He wasn't killed by the good hero, he preferred to throw himself in the lake of fire, as usual end for the negative characters of Star Wars.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
The Catholic Church is NOT a democracy. It is a theocracy. Power doesn't come from the bottom up. It comes from the top down.

As the thread is: "Pope is about to ban popular catholic apparition site Medjugorje, after 2 years of failed reforms".

Instead of doing reforms, he hunts popular apparition and hurts the feelings of tens of millions believers!

That is a good point to elaborate on the reform Francis so loudly announced he would do, "nothing cosmetic" or alike. I don't object the divine start of the church. I object the human intervention into it, that saw the churches divided many times, and then saw the Roman church going into the opposite of what the Gospels were all about, in terms of rulings over people and nations.

That all came to an end, we believed. John Paul 2 and even the popes before him long ago dismissed the command style of the post-reformation catholicism.

I want to see the reform Francis was elected to do, and trumped he is just about to do. What is it about cardinal Maradiaga's team? We didn't hear anything about that!

What we were offered to hear instead, were a bunch of nonsense jokes said as private view of the pope.

Let not speculate with ex cathedra and infallibility, terms that few understand or believe. What we are discussing is not a matter of dogma. Pope was wrong. Great Inquisitor was wrong. Instead of doing reform, they are hunting the most devote people depriving them of peaceful prayerful meetings. No matter if Medjugorje is from heaven, as I believe it, or not. The style is unacceptable.

I don't understand how that man who ran against the core of believers, will have face to address the US congress the seat of world democracy, or the UN. Perhaps Francis indeed wants a world religion commanded by Rome. But you know what> He is not the fit person for that! And even if they seat him in, it would be a parody.

BTW Flyers you didn't answer about St Ephraem the Syrian who supports the Rapture back in 4th century, as if he wrote a protestant textbook! The quote is just a small part of what he said about antichrist taking the (roman) empire and seating in Jerusalem. You didn't answer other things as well. Instead, you bring to the knowledge of the faithful the teaching that is ongoing changes. Including its section of space aliens.

What's wrong if the angels talked with Jesus and they were from Andromeda? No it is not in the medieval textbook! I hoped that pope would have brought it inside. Seems he is not the right person for the job in 21st century. He lives in another time. If there were time machines, he would do it better to go in Spain in 15th century, or in its colonies in Argentine at the time they baptized the South American indigenous people.

If there is such a lack of free thinking catholics, or christians, or people with free ideas, I'd do better to join a German catholic forum to discuss these and other issues of the Catholic church reform in 21st century.

BTW, if it was not for the Fatima apparitions, so much changed and persecuted apparition until this very day, now the language of internet would be Russian. Why didn't he release those texts? Many knowledgeable people say, no it is not all about. the core issue is missing.

I cannot but think of extraterrestrials being the core issue, be it in the positive or negative, or elsewhere. Flyers, you are not convincing by saying every apparition that speaks of rapture is false. And that heaven doesn't care of extraterrestrials.

Heaven IS Extraterrestrial! Everything above earth. And the wordings in the Bible were used all the same CIELO, sky, celestial, to name everything from the clouds to the stars to God.

What you present is pre-Galileo theological and cosmological model. You do it great, but it is it, outdated theology based on outdated cosmology. In many churchmen minds it is still the only model. We need a new theology based the post-Galileo cosmology, based on today's and tomorrow's cosmology. You can't just speak of God above the higher clouds anymore! Even if you bring in other Dimensions, as many do, still you have to explain to the people what those other dimensions are about. Why one sees a tunnel after one's death. And what are those dimensions having to do with CERN research, of possible portals, as the CERN director himself said. Theology needs to do that now, and I guess many secret teams of jesuits and others already made it on paper and await only the time to release it.

Will it be Francis to do the formal approval? I waited him to be. With every next month I am more and more disillusioned. Nothing against the man. But if he will play hardball almost everytime he opens his mouth, to accuse this or that he doesn't like in the world, surely the people will instinctively defend themselves. He may not like internet at all, and command all catholics to shut it down to save their souls. As he commanded the kids. It is just absurd! That man should resign! If he is enthroned instead, to a post even higher than his post today, make your own conclusions.

He failed to do what he promised, and that is his biggest failure, even before announcing extraterrestrials. He inherited a VERY corrupt Vatican and he didn't do much change until this moment. Despite all words. He should be called the pope of the empty words and failed promises. In that way, he might not be Petrus. But there isn't another one in the list. And that already becomes a problem, when that last one in the list starts persecuting people who think and see Our Lady different from his own view of what Our Lady should have said. At 4 PM. What a joke!

At least Benedict would have said it more intelligently, that the Angels didn't have wings and the Bethlehem star wasn't a star. He called upon the people to Discuss and Criticize his books that were his own view. He accepted dialogue, although not so many people answered. The muslims answered, btw. He was marred in a corrupt Vatican, and I don't blame him personally for anything. He did what he could do, and finally, he withdrew himself from a situation he felt he couldn't fix more. He offered that opportunity to the next one to be elected. He personally favored insiders, anyway. Bergoglio was the second candidate in 2005 conclave and Benedict didn't grant him his voters, as Oulet did in 2013.

Should we call him back, then?

Francis should realize he failed in his reform, far not only for the issues being discussed here. The world cannot give him another two years of nothing to do. We may not be alive after 2 more years on mega scale, if today's tensions continue with the same trend. Instead of showing himself outdated, naive, and may be even arrogant, while speaking for humility, Francis should try to do what he promised to do : R E F O R M of the inner circles of the Church. Or he should go. If neither of these are done, I sense a very terrible end of the game, depicted in St Pius X, Malachi and other prophecies. No one wants to leave after him ruined church, even only spiritually without the destruction predicted in centuries old prophecies. Is there anyone over there to advice Francis, someone who reads internet and watches TV? Maradiaga may be, being from L.Am. and having Francis' confidence? It just can't be true what we see happening in Rome.

If those Medjugorjans had a little courage after 35 years apparitions, they should go out and manifest. But they are afraid to even speak online. That's the strength of the old guard. They count on the fear. As every totalitarian society known in history, from the Roman empire to the Soviet Block. RCC is nothing better today.

after having the Assurances of Saint John Paul II that Medjugorje is continuation of Fatima - Fatima that saved the Christian civilization during the Cold War, and didn't allow the former Christendom to become a pile of radioactive ash,

There should be resignations as result of that gaffe.

If it all matters to be Catholic anymore. And to buy the modernized doctrine, that saw Galileo imprisoned.

Otherwise, isn't it better to have something else instead of the absurd today RCC?

Spiritdaily.com
New report: seers will be allowed to transmit messages; restrictions only for travel abroad without Church support; no decision on apparitions until they end

The Vatican now seems to play a world power, by banning/or allowing travel restrictions to its subjects. Regardless of national borders. Regardless of the fact half of the seers are not only Bosnian/Croatian citizens but also Italian, and Ivan - US citizen.

It is a big gaffe, the biggest one in the post-JP2 Vatican! Someone must pay for it! It can't go to damage control mode. There should be heads changed in Vatican for that, even if Francis somehow remains.

You know I don't hate the man. He is doing that all by himself, by his own words. He scandalized many groups of believers. As with the phrase breeding like rabbits" for the multi-children families, somehow incompatible with the controversial RCC policy of zero contraceptives, even condoms that do not theoretically have the option to make abortion. That is outdated policy of course and it is good Francis to change it. But why he has to insult the big families, that RCC pretends to "help"? Even a rabbit-farm producer in Germany felt offended...

The last one to be scandalized is the major group of those who still believe in the supernatural occurrence, the biggest of which is Medjugorje. Again, I don't say that everyone who says "Virgin Mary told me so" sees Virgin Mary. But Medjugorje...it is just the best and the biggest. The Vatican strikes there, not somewhere smaller one. Actually in the last decades Vatican eliminated many apparitions, but new ones popped up. Seems Our Lady doesn't sleep, or whoever extraterrestrial it is.

I don't buy it the pope is the sole interpreter of the will of God. It is just too much for a human. If he questions the other voices, why not his to be in question. Especially when he is preparing to offer major changes in the world society.

Francis practically ruined his entire position expected on ecology, globalism and beyond. What if he offers a new world system? As it was offered by the previous/current administration of Benedict? Who of the devote catholics who still believe supernatural occurence, will believe a word of Francis, after his attack on Medjugorje? I mean, Francis may say good things after all, no one is only black or white. But how could I believe, for example, the ET proposed by Francis, are the good ones? That Martian with the big nose and ears, exactly that one from the multi-billion galaxy should be chosen by the pope to tell me that God created others, and you see, that dude should be baptized too? Weren't there other better looking aliens to be used in the papal example of galactic missionary? Or he wants to repulse us of the idea, by offering his own alien? Or...he is going to introduce to the world exactly such odd creatures, and not the Human ET? Many questions follow here. One is sure - we were not told the truth,a nd there isn't any hope we will be told the truth with that kind of mentality and action. Even if tomorrow the pope is not named Francis.

I am curious what he will say in US congress and UN. If the rapture doesn't occur first. Not the protestant one. The extraterrestrial one. The protestants already have the answer. Sept 23 starts the Great Trib. If somehow it doesn't, we have to have agenda of the churches different from Francis' agenda. We have to have a church based on Christ's love. Not of canons that have nothing to do with the Gospels (even so restricted Gospels that are 1% of all Jesus said on earth, or less). Where is the love witnessed by the Church? By sending the next humanitarian aid to Africa may be? Good but not good enough.

If it was otherwise, we would have flourished for 20 centuries after Christ, not to stand on the edge of the nuclear abyss. But the pope is not guilty of that! Sure not, only he could consecrate Russia and release the full texts of Fatima. Not to ban the next apparition.

Along with unknown number of books of ancient times. Why do we need Sitchin to tell us part of the truth, while someone under Vatican will know it for centuries? I wonder how their predecessors published Malachi's list at all?

Medjugorje, as well as every apparition, is actually Extra-terrestrial manifestation. You can discern by whom. It is not devil-God paradigm. We are not taking of one devil, if you like to. We are not talking of one angel.

It is a time the Churches to admit that what has been called angels and devils in the past, are actually good and evil beings from the vast Universe.

Our Lady appears in Medjugorje with angels sometimes, 2, 3. Marija had apparitions in Alabama with Our Lady accompanied by hundreds of baby-like angels. Marija said they were not souls of aborted babies, but angels.

Indeed Medjugorje seers never use the word extraterrestrial. But we don't know what is written in the 10 secrets.

Kibeho seer uses the word Lunatic, ona replica of Our Lady during a 4 -h apparition in a catholic church in Belgium, the seer answered "but they will take me for a lunatic". We don't know the replicas of Our Lady we only have the record of the replicas of the seer. I forgot her name, but one can find it not that difficult. There is a website in Dutch, with some English.
What could be taken for lunatic today, when everything is already said online? What could be still a secret? ONLY ONE THING. It is no more secret if it is already being discussed online. Unfortunately, the Church again allows the events to go before it, as it was in Galileo's time. Or may be it is on purpose. Because we don't know which extraterrestrials or angels/demons if you will, the Catholic church is in contact with. What if they are not the best ones?

Pope Francis lost 2.3 years until now. Perhaps it is predetermined, if we have Nibiru, Solar flare, or some 70 Jewish cycles to pass. All predictions failed around 2012, but the Bible scholars (not catholic!) say, they failed because they were not God's calendar. Well I don't know what I don't know. What I know though, is we are at the edge and soon will move to either side.

Perhaps a better sermon than what the pope has to tell us in his encyclical, will be the following premiere of Star Wars Rebels Season 2 on June 20 at 9PM New York time. For me, it will have a better transpired worldview, after yesterday's gross failure of the pope. I won't bother to read all the dozen or hundred pages of encyclical, if I am in doubt about its author in first place. I want the things done, not said, not banned, not delayed for 15 years after 2000 as they did with Fatima. I want them here and now. If any extraterrestrial angel offers a better idea, I'd accept it. It will be surely better than that of the pope.

Moreover, Jesus' life could have been recorded from the clouds.

You know the same could be used by the antichrist, to say here is the extraterrestrial gospel, here is what Jesus did, and he is the grandson of his cousin. The point is who you consider antichrist, and where is your belief in Jesus Christ in first place. At the moment, I can't find it in the words of the pope. he quotes Jesus indeed, but he opposes his Jesus to everything holy I know of. Let he prove it is otherwise. He is still pope and he still can reverse things. I doubt it however. He came already with an agenda. People change little at his age. He was chosen to do what he will do.

I call upon the angels of Virgin Mary to be faster to save us, and if needed furious too. If they look like Star Wars characters, especially the human ones, I'd accept them gladly. Enough of fairy tales of failed religious doctrines.



We are going to have extraterrestrial announcement pretty soon, with or without the pope on the scene. Perhaps with him. I wonder, why the need of that senseless attack on Medjugorje? Perhaps we are having not only 6 extraterrestrial groups, as Paul Hellyer said about. Perhaps they are many more, grouped whatever by agendas more than by races. So perhaps there will be race who will win our benevolence, of more humans. For example, one agenda could be: come with us, we offer you rescue froma dying planet, here is the planet (s) you go with everything you need, your religion will not only be untouched but also we believe in Jesus Christ. Another agenda obviously will be for the Muslims and so on. A different agenda could be what transpires from "ET messages": "we are coming to stay on earth, we will transform the planet, will eliminate the evil structures and all will live hapily, in a second golden age after that of Atlantis". I have to say, that agenda is more popular among UFOlogists than the first one. The first one was popular during the Cold War with danger of annihilation within 20 minutes or so. Then the immediate rescue was of paramount importance. I still buy the first one, not the second one. There might be more agendas. Not necessarily confined to particular races, rather alliances of races.

Where is the pope in that picture? Perhaps his chosen agenda and that of the leaders of RCC is only one of those. So may be he readies the flock for that one, and not this one agenda and races. Therefore, he doesn't actually need concurrent in the field. The biggest ones to be not the Orthodox churches but the supernatural manifestations. Why he singled out Medjugorje as enemy? Does he have provabe info that s not Our Lady? And if yes, why doesn't he publish it? The way he did it, convinces me in the opposite direction.

Having all these stars in the sky called heaven with the same word in the Bible, it is really hard to believe what is being sold for centuries by religious doctrines, amid bloodshed and misery, is what is all about. God is higher than that primitive understanding, so is Jesus who preached LOVE not power grab.

Francis went so far as to accuse the messages of the Virgin were comparable to the Gnosticism or so. Let me ask him (or his aide) a simple question: what would be today's canonical Gospel books, if it was not for Constantine imprint, for unproved vision of him of a cross in the sky, and the followed mess in the Christian development?

How about a story where not the Roman empire, but the Persian took over Christianity?

Medjugorje and all other secrets are secrets of the near future, not of far away future and not of the past. Is it what frightens the hierarchy? Instead, they could have told us what they know a thousand times. Including of the "leaked" diary of St. John 23 of his own experience and encounters with the Madonna, ET, and saucer landed in Castel Gandolfo with talk with Human ET. Besides, personal meeting with Adamski, the most provable of the story. So someone could make those leaks online happen. Why don't they just tell us the truth and stop lying their story? Instead, they jump as some kind of tigers anytime someone gets popularity by talking of the incoming events. Such as the fabricated Fatima story, Medjugorje secrets, other secrets. Why the need to ban anything, if they were not afraid of the truth? Let they say it!

Because there are two or more agendas, and their agenda is not the agenda of the apparitions. No it is not Jesus' agenda. Jesus didn't have an agenda. First of all, we don't have full record of Him, and even the criticized Gnostic gospels couldn't make it full. Perhaps, at one moment ET will download the full record of Jesus. It will be too long, 33 years. Sure they can summarize it in shorter movies. Will that be projected in holograms during the 3 days of darkness, with the offer of rescue to a better place? Just a guess. There will be guesses until the truth is released. Not with commands like that of Francis, that you see, Jesus is the last word of God, and who is the last words of Jesus? His own papal infallibility. Not that way anymore. It proved futile. Jesus never ever said Peter would do that. Even in the so changed gospels. So the pope practically controvert Jesus to Mary. Why not to say the same of Fatima? Just release the texts!

What happens if Jesus had a wife, as so many heretical gospels say He had. Where go the entire teaching of the celibate, so much breached by its own members?

Francis could expect the reaction of his words, by many people who will opt to keep silent. Not everyone has the ability and time as I do to write it online the way I do. But many many people will disagree deeply with Francis. If he knows of it, and he certainly tested waters a year ago thru his top officer, then why should he do it in that provocative way? The same ruling of no public appearances could have come in completely different atmosphere, together with some partial recognition of Medjugorje as a shrine. My conclusion is, Francis deliberately wants to provoke the faithful on a question highly sensitive. He is not doing it for a first time, and not for the last time. Why, I still wonder what the end game will be. A person like him spending his entire life under Jesuit discipline,d oesn't talk like that without purpose. I may talk like that, you may talk like that, but not Bergoglio the archbishop, now pope, who was selected uner utmost scrutiny for goals that are still unclear.

One possible explanation is, they want to make people start thinking critically, including on established canons such as the Gnostic gospels. Let not forget pope Benedict's books of Jesus, who spoke of Angels without wings, not singing, and no Bethlehem star.

Another, not so good explanation, as I already discussed, the church top are afraid of something big being revealed thru these and other apparitions, that contradicts their own plans of the near future. I just don't know and all is my best guess.


Mirjana the seer just said she didn't believe the pope intended to harm Medjugorje, and she has full respect of him. Perhaps she won't agree with 99.9% or even 100% of what I wrote. Please notice I am not Mirjana or a seer in Medjugorje and that is my private view that does not necessarily defend anyone, rather try to explain first for myself what is going on. On that way, I have ups and downs, likes and dislikes towards this and that one, as everyone of you. That is highly critical issue by definition and it is normal to have such spiritual wandering. We live in such a time, too.

Thank you for the one flag. Perhaps more have read it who don't subscribe in the forum.

The next scheduled bomb will be the encyclical. Well unless it includes ET I may not spend the same amount of time on it. Certainly not reading it all.

I thought that to be the last post, but I can't just stand it. Here is what Spiritdaily comments, one of the 6-7 headlines today on the topic:

Any negative Church action -- and there will be negativity in upcoming statements -- is sure to fuel speculation about Medjugorje's famous "secrets," which are said to pertain in part to developments in the Church and the apparition site itself. One visionary, Ivan Dragiĉević, the first to be singled out by a Vatican official, reported a recent message from the Virgin Mary allegedly saying, "Pray that my pastors receive me."

www.spiritdaily.com...

Yes indeed any negative action, as that of the pope himself, will bring upon Rome the words of predictions in secrets, some of which, we know, concern the Roman church itself. Although we don't know the secrets we were told about in more general terms.

I am thinking of other explanation. Could it be a preemptive attack against the core believers, to prevent any reaction on the expected next week encyclical? As we already know, it will include some global issues. Last time the Vatican spoke on new world order, it met a firm resistance by those most devote people, although their sites and blogs are pretty diverse. To remember, it was during Benedict's pontificate, by the council of social and justice - an offer to UN to make a new supranational institution to tax international companies, and so on. Later the Sec.of state removed the document, saying he never heard of it before.

Now it cannot be said, now the pope will speak in writing, although NOT EX CATHEDRA. and that is good to remember always when we talk of what the pope says. Most if not all of his words are not ex cathedra. What the catholics believe to be infallible statements after the dogma accepted at Vatican 1 council and not part of the undivided Christian Church before 11th century. That late dogma alone currently is the biggest single obstacle before a future unification of the Western and the Eastern branches of one church established by Christ. To say Jesus established the Roman church, is lack of history classes. He established the Apostolic church consisting of 12 apostles, who went to a dozen of corners of then world. It happened Peter stayed in Antioch where he ordained bishops. Then it happened he moved to Rome where he ordained bishops too (although the wording "ordain bishop" is later and has Greek not Hebrew or Jesus' origin. Furthermore, the influential at that time church of Alexandria today's Egypt, in still Christian North Africa, was established by the disciple of Peter, Mark, who obviously was ordained by Peter himself. Thus at Nicaea controversial council, only three major churches appeared as independent: Rome, Alexandria, Antioch. They confirmed each other's recognition. Constantinople didn't exist, so didn;t exist the title Patriarch that the Eastern churches invented later. At least they don't hide it as the Roman church hides it. Because Peter didn't call himself "pope". It is a later, Greek word. On the newly discovered tomb of Peter under St Peter's basilica, is written in Greek: Petros Eni, Peter is here. No pope, no bishop, no vicar of Christ, no king of the kings and servant of God's servants. Nothing. Lesson of humility for every pope, whose pontificate starts and practically ends at the tomb of Peter.

The pope should tone it down. If needed, relaxation pills and abundant advises. He can't do it all alone. From now on, every word will be watched and the slightest move away will be declared antichrist. Not by me. Not by the catholics so much, although exist several big opposition groupings. But by the vocal protestant mega churches who need their man of sin to appear on Sept 23 at the final Jubilee of 70 cycle, Daniel estimated by Newton. They need the bad guy and they already singled out Francis to be a such. Francis may enjoy the new title, or he may think of ways to show he is not that man. Including by resignation. He already did enough and wrote enough. Why should he become in the eyes of millions the man of sin. That will bring nothing positive to the Catholic church.

The banned Bayside NY apparition (sear died in 1994) its webmaster www.tldm.org... cheers at the negative words said about Medjugorje. Strange things happen indeed. As if the pope will approve Bayside after banning Medjugorje.

One is sure, we are talking of different rescue teams of angels and different scenarios and directions. It may happen those who believe this apparition go here, and those who believe that apparition go there, and those who believe pope stay where pope says. It will be TOTAL MESS. I believe those who will come from above and who will tell us the things without human interference. Well, in the rapture there won't be fundamental fanatics and that is good. They will meet their fate on planet Earth, what they want to fervently.

One possible speculation on the First Medjugorje Secret. I set aside ALL talks until now they are irrelevant. The 1 secret must break down the power of Satan over the entire planet. That means a strike by the angels. It means Extraterrestrial attack on precise location. Let start calling the names with their proper. OK of Babylon there are two options New York and Rome. But who holds the power of Satan, more?

The Near death experience of Lou Famoso, published in catholic apparitions websites too, (he is evangelical I think), after meeting Jesus he was given a ride thru the space by Archangels Michael and Raphael. He was taken to Orion constellation and Nebula. Then he saw two flaming objects left Orion and headed towards the Earth. He has later composed videos to visualize that, with footage from NASA. So the laming objects cross the entire Solar system and find the target: New York. He continues, after devastating planetary crust shift etc, the earth gets its primordial outlook with ancient cities rising from the oceans. I'm thinking, one of the flaming objects could fulfill Malachi's prophecy too, in Rome. Or there might be three of them. Just for reference. John Bosco warned Rome long ago if it doesn't convert. So did Canori Mora beatified by St John Paul II. What happened after the holy death of the holy pope? Rome is not the same in the last 10 years. With one pope resigned, and the other doesn't really know where to find more enemies. Strange how he didn't ally with the Chinese yet. It is too early to judge. No it is too late to judge. Once you have sealed phrases especially in the UN, then they will act upon them. With the blessing of the "vicar of Christ".

BTW Jesus never told Peter "you are my vicar , your SUCCESSORS are my vicars,until I come after 2000 years or more". It is later thing, may be 5th or 6th century. At least the orthodox acknowledge the title patriarch doesn't date back to the apostles time. So is the title pope. Jesus didn't create popes with above-argument powers. Human imperfectness and historical reasons of failed Roman empire created them.

I believe Francis knows all of that and more. Let he not step in the shoes of the antichrist. They are not his number.

2011 in Marmora Canada, apart of the original seer Dori Tan, there was a boy Josephat 8, who had visions of Jesus. Only one message was reported, promising the next one to be the "big message of Jesus". Unfortunately, as usual, a guest cleric came, a Ukrainian Catholic Bishop...Danylak (now dead, who had problems with taking the seat in his own diocese in Canada from his predecessor, according to wikipedia info. That is important because he wasn't even the bishop of the place but visiting bishop on some mission, anyway. Apparently friend to the family of Josephat).

Danylak took the message of Josephat on Dec 1, 2011 and never released it until his death shortly after. The manager of group of pilgrims posted in a French catholic forum, that he and 10 other people got the copy of the message but with the promise not to release it.

In the first message released thru Spiritdaily and others, Josephat talked of going to hide in caves that will have electricity and food and water.

Perhaps that Big message of Jesus was vital for the expected refuges in North America! This is how the Roman church "cares" for our spiritual and other human needs! The Roman church prefers us all martyred for its unclear goals. Because those goals are not Jesus the good shepherd who gave His life for many, not the life of his friends.

The position of the Roman chiefs on apparitions is unacceptable, when those apparitions are meant to provide not only of our spiritual needs but also of our physical survivor! This is the least that could be said! They do not own the Heaven, and practically cannot stop Heaven to intervene and save us. Seems to me, they want to stop the people from taking part in a rescue /rapture or any other exodus to safe ground. That is what is my impression. Otherwise, they would have interest to speak out and to increase their popularity and relevance in modern days. They should be advocates of true apparitions, not their stoppers. You make your own conclusion how trustworthy a decision of a Roman council could be regarding apparition that has 10 secrets for near future events - secrets that may save you and your kids from the horrors of cataclysms and even worse, from the antichrist.

Seer Ivan of Medjugorje: Pope's words a little strange

www.medjugorjetoday.tv... Pope Francis’ words on seers in a recent homily seem a little strange to visionary Ivan Dragicevic, he tells a Croatian newspaper. Ivan points out that the Pope did not necessarily refer to Medjugorje, and assures that the visionaries do all they can to do what Pope Francis recommends. Medjugorje visionary Ivan Dragicevic says that Pope Francis’ remarks on vivionaries during his homily on June 9 “seem a little strange” to him. But the Pope’s comments were not necessarily about Medjugorje because the seers “try to do everything he says” about giving primacy to Jesus, the visionary adds.

Indeed, for all those 34 years, I haven't heard ONCE the seers to show disrespect to the Catholic Church, Faith, or Popes. Instead, on multiple occasions including on personal meetings with popes, the seers demonstrated their deepest loyalty. Moreover, the messages of the Blessed Virgin Mary point many times towards the Church authority and especially towards the pope, the necessity of prayers for the priests, etc. The messages clearly indicate Jesus is the first and only object of worship, not Mary, and the Gospel is to be read every day, and especially on Thursday. Of the importance of the sacraments and masses.

Therefore the shock for many, may be millions of common believers, one of whom is myself, who read the media interpretation of papal words, that visionaries were against Jesus or Gnostic, and had to be controlled better by the Church. I really don't understand the point of the pope, and why he said that and for whom. For Mirjana and Ivan who spent so much time in investigative committees in Vatican? For Vicka (the only mystic), Jacov, Marija, Ivanka? Do these people reject Jesus? Do they ever say anything against Jesus or the Church, be it from their own wording, or as in a message of the Blessed Virgin? What we hear is absurd! Perhaps the pope just mistaken this time.

The seers are already collaborating with the Catholic Church authorities, to the extend, Marija to send her monthly message from Italy first to Medjugorje parish (controlled by the Church) and first to be posted on the parish website. There were even speculations, that the messages at least in one case for Marija and one case for Jacov, were either mistranslated or fixed later by the Church authorities. That wasn't the case for the vast majority of messages, who nevertheless remain fully loyal to the Catholic Church.

Perhaps someone in the church, not necessarily the pope, wants to see "collaboration" equal to "silencing" and "stopping the apparitions" that the seers have regardless of where they are at the moment or what they do. The seers do not command the visions. Neither they lie they have visions.

If the Church believes those are from the devil, let it say it clearly! Let not blackmail the millions of believers who have believed for decades, and who were encouraged by Saint John Paul II to continue believing Medjugorje apparitions!

Sure not everyone in the Catholic hierarchy thinks like those officials who misguided pope Francis in his MOST ABSURD wording for his entire pontificate. For example, here is Ivan in the cathedral of Vienna having apparition, followed by mass of cardinal Shoenborn. Perhaps the cardinal doesn't think the apparitions eclipse Jesus in the Gospel. Instead he said his seminary's vocations were all thanks to Medjugorje. medjugorje.files.wordpress.com...

spiritdaily.com/laurentin3.htm WORLD'S FOREMOST MARIOLOGIST AND AUTHOR OF DEFINITIVE WORK ON SAINT BERNADETTE SAID IN CURRENT CLIMATE LOURDES 'WOULD NOT BE RECOGNIZED

Medjugorje apparitions started on June 24, 1981 some 40 days after the assassination attempt on St John Paul II. Having 8 years everyday apparitions and weekly/monthly messages DURING the communism in Yugoslavia, added up to what Fatima apparitions couldn't accomplish alone. Therefore the words of St John Paul II that Medjugorje is continuation of Fatima. Many pilgrims to Medjugorje came from the West even during the communism, but many pilgrims came from then East Block. You have what you have in catholic countries like Czech and Poland, also thanks to Medjugorje. Does it mean the communist time was more tolerable to apparitions to occur, than today's Vatican? That would have consequences.

The Soviet block didn't stop Medjugorje and the spreading of messages within its territory. You may say, Yugoslavia of Tito wan't exactly Soviet block. Poland was though. And nobody stopped the spreading the apparitions among catholic circles anywhere.

Today' certain Vatican officials try to do it!
Make your own conclusions!

Today's world forgot too fast the situation only 26 years ago. Where is the thanksgiving to Mary's apparitions for the End of Cold War and 20-min hair trigerred nuclear devastation of the world?

Is it thanksgiving the withholding the FULL Fatima messages?

Or the attempts to restrict the biggest apparition currently ongoing on daily basis?

There are other apparitions who were already silenced. One of them said, when Communism comes back everything will be fulfilled.

I recommend to those commissions to watch more videos as that above, to watch speeches of Khrushchevand to think of a Vatican that might not exist as a result, or exist in a completely different form from today's. They seem to have forgotten where they came from. Because those are senior members of age above 60, who should have a vivid record of what was back then.

or, they hide something much bigger. I already talked of that. In either way, it is unsatisfactory and unacceptable for the common faithful to be blackmailed. If there is a different truth that we don't know about it, let those scarlet and purple hats finally say it. Because what they do right now, seems to me to be delay until the last moment when those hidden truths will surface despite their own denials.

Where is Medjugorje in the picture? Perhaps it holds hidden truths in the secrets, and that's what is dangerous for the power holders of Rome. Not the calls of prayer, love, and following Church's teachings that practically are ongoing calls in every message if you read them. Perhaps they know Medjugorje know they know, what we aren't told of. It is not so difficult for the modern informed intelligent mind to figure it out. I did my part so far.