Untouched cave to provide clues to Black Hills history

Wow. Just when you thought everything was discovered and figured out, here comes something like this eh, ATS? An untouched cave in the Black Hills of South Dakota.

A park service worker found Persistence Cave in 2004 on the grounds of Wind Cave National Park, in western South Dakota, but the agency kept it quiet, partly to prevent amateur spelunkers from trying to explore well-preserved site.

On Monday, a team of scientists led by East Tennessee State University professor Jim Mead will begin unearthing the entrance of the cave, hauling out bags of sediment and animal bones to be carefully analyzed. They have already found bones dating back nearly 11,000 years and the remains of at least three species that hadn't been found in the region before — the pika, pine marten and platygonus, an extinct relative of the modern-day peccary

I can't wait to see what is discovered in this cave. Should be pretty exciting. What says ATS?

news.yahoo.com...

Outstanding... I eagerly await a report.

Spent 2 years in rapid city area every day off was spent wandering the black Hills.

If you know how to navigate, it's a must visit area.

Amazingly beautiful and even kinda magical place to visit... Just stay away from the tourists area... Goto crazy horse monument not Rushmore.

Sorry for the ramble.

They will probably find artifacts and burial sites that would force history books to be rewritten. Therefore, you'll probably not hear another thing, and if you try to request a copy of the final report, the Feds will use ARPA or the cave protection act to redact 75% of it. I am going through this with an archaeological site right now in Cumberland Gap National Park. Therefore I also find it ironic the lead researcher is from ETSU.

But we can always hope I'm wrong.

originally posted by: CharlieAtTheGap

I am going through this with an archaeological site right now in Cumberland Gap National Park. Therefore I also find it ironic the lead researcher is from ETSU.

Please elaborate.

a reply to: Seamrog

I'll start my own thread someday when I get the final result of my FOIA appeal. I hope the OP stays on top of this and attempts to get the final report when available. I am very interested to see if they are successful.

originally posted by: CharlieAtTheGap
the Feds will use ARPA or the cave protection act to redact 75% of it.

What's ARPA?

ARPA is the Archaeological Resource Protection Act.

www.nps.gov...

Federal Cave Resources Protection Act

www.nature.nps.gov...

originally posted by: CharlieAtTheGap
ARPA is the Archaeological Resource Protection Act.
Federal Cave Resources Protection Act

Thanks for the clarification. I look forward to seeing why those are bad things.

originally posted by: CharlieAtTheGap
ARPA is the Archaeological Resource Protection Act.

www.nps.gov...

Federal Cave Resources Protection Act

www.nature.nps.gov...

hmmm.m.m...have these laws beeb used before to keep archaeological finds under wraps?

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

For a little more insight - en.m.wikipedia.org...

And don't hold your breath waiting to see why it's bad. this act was absolutely necessary when it became law. Unless out erstwhile fellow poster can elaborate further and point me towards a negative encounter they have had?

originally posted by: CharlieAtTheGap
They will probably find artifacts and burial sites that would force history books to be rewritten. Therefore, you'll probably not hear another thing, and if you try to request a copy of the final report, the Feds will use ARPA or the cave protection act to redact 75% of it. I am going through this with an archaeological site right now in Cumberland Gap National Park. Therefore I also find it ironic the lead researcher is from ETSU.

But we can always hope I'm wrong.

Let's hope...

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

For a little more insight - en.m.wikipedia.org...

And don't hold your breath waiting to see why it's bad. this act was absolutely necessary when it became law. Unless out erstwhile fellow poster can elaborate further and point me towards a negative encounter they have had?

Thanks for that link.
Kinda what I was thinking...

I believe they use these statutes to withhold information from the public so they can go ahead with government construction projects within Parks. In my case, the government project was the tunnel they built through the Park.

It's hard for the public to raise any heck about the government disturbing ancient burial grounds if the public isn't informed the burial grounds are there to start with.

originally posted by: CharlieAtTheGap
I believe they use these statutes to withhold information from the public so they can go ahead with government construction projects within Parks. In my case, the government project was the tunnel they built through the Park.
It's hard for the public to raise any heck about the government disturbing ancient burial grounds if the public isn't informed the burial grounds are there to start with.

Problem is...at best, the public at large appears to be an arse:
Boy Scout Leaders Topple Ancient Rock Formation In Utah's Goblin Valley State Park,
and it goes downhill pretty rapidly from there...
23 People Are Arrested or Sought in the Looting of Indian Artifacts
...on the other hand, take a look at why the U.S. Army Corp of engineers fought tooth and nail to have Kennewick Man repatriated to the First Nations. All about badly needed agreements on toxic waste cleanups. Yes, the government can have an agenda, too.

a reply to: lostbook

Fantastic find. I seem to be most interested in the last 12,000 - 15,000 years because I can relate to how man must have been throughout these ages, whilst going back too far and time seems to go into the mist. I read somewhere that leeches were huge as well as other animals so man would have been very threatened when alone.

11,000 years…

“You read books and find statements that such and such a society or archeological site is (claimed to be) 20,000 years old. We learn rather abruptly that these numbers, these ancient ages, are not known (speculations and imaginative guesses); in fact, it is about the time of the First Dynasty in Egypt that the last (earliest) historical date of any any real certainty has been established.”
Willard Libby, Nobel Laureate for development of radiocarbon dating

a reply to: Verum1quaere

I guess that its a good thing that he also understood that the margin of error was able to be calculated and that 14C is not the only method used for determining dates and that 1 dating method alone is not a useful date or one to be ascribed to any given site.

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: Verum1quaere

I guess that its a good thing that he also understood that the margin of error was able to be calculated and that 14C is not the only method used for determining dates and that 1 dating method alone is not a useful date or one to be ascribed to any given site.

Indeed. Not to mention the fact that Willard Libby died in 1980, and I understand that we've gone through one or two technological advances since then.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I do believe we have added a couple of tricks to the arsenal in the past 35 years. Also, I couldn't find the actual quote posted to see when he actually said it which would shine a little perspective on WHY he would have made a statement of that nature which seems a little contradictory to other things he has said regarding dating of artifacts and the science behind it. But hey...screw due diligence!

I'll be in the Black Hills in less than 2 months for the Black Hills Motorcycle Rally. So far, it's my favorite region in America!

Wind Cave is on my list this year of places to ride to.

I love to hear when they find these time capsule caves!