*** ALL MEMBERS *** Ending Rudeness, Hate, Bigotry: Getting Back to Basics

a reply to: Phoenix

Damn I said I was going to stay out of this. That said man, it's a different world and a different board by extension today. We've tried the light touch and here we are. With hate like a YT thread. That has NEVER been the ATS way. You would prefer if we kept going down the same road as the rest of the BS Net?

a reply to: seagull

oh, okay i'll remember that next time... thank you

originally posted by: Phoenix
a reply to: tothetenthpower

Fine and dandy upon first read however the parameters stated are so broad and open for misconstruing because what offends me is different from other members and mods.

Just for instance with politics coming in a big way next year and a half certain commonly and publicly used descriptive labels could be construed by more sensitive types as derogatory when not meant that way.

INTENT, yup that's the key term, to understand it is to ask the poster in U2U before jumping to conclusions based on one's internal bias as a moderator or poster unless an outright violation T&C.

I have been on both sides of the fence modwise and know that it's a fine judgment call on certain issues. I'd say err on the side of open discussion rather than black and white rule making.

It was free and open discussion no matter how controversial that had me become a member more than a decade ago.

That said, I've seen this same crackdown happen 3-4 times over the years especially around US elections and really can't say they ultimately benefitted my experience on ATS - rather than resulting betterment it was more like homoginization of opinion based on popular beliefs at the time.

One liners, quips and outright put downs deserve consequences. Opinion, semantics and other descriptives need careful thought rather than sudden action or this board will stifle itself.

You have an excellent point.

One time I wrote a post that was deleted, and I did not think it was offensive at all. I could never figure out what was offensive in what was said. I inquired so as to not repeat the offense, but was never replied to as to what I wrote that was offensive. My only conclusion was the mod who was moderating disagreed with me, which he/she did in a post, and didn't like what I said and so deleted it.

The parameters outlined above could easily be used by mods to shut down those who disagree because the mod finds what is said offensive, even if it is not really offensive, just offended the sensibility of the moderator at the time.

a reply to: seagull

Help me out here, boss.

This isn't going to be a PC (please don't offend me) change, is it?

I mean, if we're going to have to worry about offending everyone or anyone just by what we say, might as well start redacting 95% of my stuff.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Seamrog


Seriously, what's difficult to understand here?

That's the rub, isn't?

As an example - putting down Christianity and those who follow it is a sport on this site. I could cite 8-10 regulars from memory. It is rarely - if ever - questioned.

Viewpoints strongly presented from a Christian perspective, however, ARE cannon fodder for some moderators and many posters. The Christian perspective is viewed as 'ignorant, hateful bigotry,' no matter how it is presented.

When you boil it down, there is no getting around that, and you get posters who quit posting because they are weary of the ridicule and the heavy hand of an agenda-driven moderator.

Threats should not be tolerated. Spam and advertising should not be tolerated. Using the owner's website for personal gain should not be tolerated. Continued harassment should not be tolerated.

Other than that, you are going to kill a significant portion of the population, and boil it down to a homogeneous group who pats itself on the back with regularity.

Boring.

a reply to: Seamrog

I have opinions on things too that aren't offensive but they might not fit the PC partyline, hence I tend to keep to 'safe threads' also, less so recently but if I continue to use ATS (considering not visiting the site for a while), it will be the 'safe threads'.

And yes, the irony of that is that it is the antithesis of speaking the truth, is not a real demographic of opinions and is selective censorship.

No conspiracies there then!

ETA I also agree that there a few moderators all for personal preference, itching for slapping bans on certain opinions but not others.

originally posted by: beezzer
This isn't going to be a PC (please don't offend me) change, is it?

I mean, if we're going to have to worry about offending everyone or anyone just by what we say, might as well start redacting 95% of my stuff.

I used the word "asshole" on the preceding page, Beez. Do you want to rescind this question?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: beezzer
This isn't going to be a PC (please don't offend me) change, is it?

I mean, if we're going to have to worry about offending everyone or anyone just by what we say, might as well start redacting 95% of my stuff.

I used the word "asshole" on the preceding page, Beez. Do you want to rescind this question?

*gods*

Just don't base me on everyone else's opinion. If I had them write my bio, that'd be the title of the book!

a reply to: reldra

That's the difference pointed out well, I see the rediculous for what it is and roll on rather than be offended by inconsequential words that add no information to the discussion.

Others unfortunately can't filter wheat from chaff.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: grainofsand
Sounds fair enough to me.
I haven't been punished in a while though.
How about those who just cry troll but don't present any other alternative argument?
I find those a bit tiresome, I come here for discussion, not fakebook style lame insults.

You troll

Just kidding

Haha, knob!
On a serious note though, I do see us Brits bitching with each other in a much more civilised manner when we disagree.
No offence to US members but I find the personal fakebook style insults much more prevalent when dealing with you guys than when it is a Brit thread. Maybe it's because there are more of you so your 1% of dicks outweigh our 1% perhaps?
But even when our 1% of folk get a bit silly sometimes, I find in Brit threads we tend to moderate ourselves much better. Insulting posts get to stay up because other members have shot them down through the medium of reasoned argument.
...or am I being rude and hateful now I've suggested that?

Yep, we're all the same, there are no cultural differences, obviously...We are at war with Eurasia. We've always been at war with Eurasia.

a reply to: Seamrog

Other than that, you are going to kill a significant portion of the population, and boil it down to a homogeneous group who pats itself on the back with regularity.

I respectfully disagree.

Enforcement of this policy will not necessarily reinforce one ideology or belief more than another. What this does is require us to understand the meaning behind the idiom "it's not what you say, but how you say it".

For example, instead of saying "this article just proves that the Leftist democrats are a bunch of socialists that want the entire nation on welfare", a much more effective, and intelligent, way to say that would be "this article highlights a potential party-wide effort to undermine individual wealth and further burden the welfare system".

It's not what you say, but how you say it.

a reply to: tothetenthpower
But I don't know any secrets. That's what I come on ATS for to discover and discuss. So yes, I do trawl all through the different posts and comment on some and not on others.
Yes, I do like differing oppinions and ideas.
BUT, all you moderators must admit there are some posters(whether they are trolls or just deluded people) that are downright pure ignorance (is that too strong a word) and will not take ANY oppinion or corrective information.
Yes, yes people have different ideas and must be respected but sometimes stronger words could be used.
What's your answer there"just don't reply". Let them carry on spreading their ignorance. As is already been stated "deny ignorance" can be a double edged sword.

originally posted by: Seamrog
...and the heavy hand of an agenda-driven moderator.

And again. Last frickin time.......

EVERY action that staff does is logged. Every action is seen by every staffer. On the staff are conservatives, liberals, anarchists, socialists, Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, agnostics, atheists, seniors, 20 somethings, EVERYONE!!!! If all is seen how could there be "an agenda driven moderator?" Cripes.

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Seamrog


Seriously, what's difficult to understand here?

That's the rub, isn't?

As an example - putting down Christianity and those who follow it is a sport on this site. I could cite 8-10 regulars from memory. It is rarely - if ever - questioned.

Viewpoints strongly presented from a Christian perspective, however, ARE cannon fodder for some moderators and many posters. The Christian perspective is viewed as 'ignorant, hateful bigotry,' no matter how it is presented.

When you boil it down, there is no getting around that, and you get posters who quit posting because they are weary of the ridicule and the heavy hand of an agenda-driven moderator.

Threats should not be tolerated. Spam and advertising should not be tolerated. Using the owner's website for personal gain should not be tolerated. Continued harassment should not be tolerated.

Other than that, you are going to kill a significant portion of the population, and boil it down to a homogeneous group who pats itself on the back with regularity.

Boring.

These are only my thoughts...but this isn't a Christian website. A lot of Christian beliefs make certain segments of the population feel offended when stated in certain ways. I am Wiccan, I don't tell every one that Satan and his Sister Aradia created the world and we should go about spiritual rituals skyclad 'naked' on a daily basis and get your Athame after a spiritual cleansing bath and that the gods and goddesses will strike you down if you discriminate against different lifestyles. I keep it to a simple philosophy: Bill and Ted

originally posted by: introvert


Enforcement of this policy will not necessarily reinforce one ideology or belief more than another.

I respectfully disagree.


For many here, when it comes to Christian perspectives, it doesn't matter how you say it.


It is the fact that you ARE saying it that is offensive.

a reply to: grainofsand

''Where do your politics /religion / opinions sit?''

''An ATS homogeneous shade of beige.''

''You can have opinions but you can't have OPINIONS.''

Yep, we're all the same, there are no cultural differences

edit on 4-6-2015 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: intrepid

If all is seen how could there be "an agenda driven moderator?" Cripes.

'Respectfully,' you are one of them.

a reply to: crayzeed

You can't argue with stupid. They will just beat you with experience.

I'm totally serious. Yes, there are some who will never ever change. They'll be wrong about certaing things forever.

So long as they can be nice about it, they won't be asked to leave. And as long as you attack the information they have not their unwillingness to respond or agree, neither will you.

But yeah, eventually you just have to not respond, cause its not doing you any good.

Just hope somebody else can get through to them.

-Tenth

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I was being tongue in cheek with the no cultural differences thing of course, but come on you must admit we have a unique UK style of debate, even when we totally disagree. We even have insulting 'swear' words that have never been banned by the filter, I hope they never are.

There is definitely an element of self moderation with the UK members if only because we know it wouldn't wash in the pub, and I think the regular UK members all interact as if we were in the pub.
Granted there would have been a few punches thrown over the years but we'd all nip it in the bud before heads were stamped on then go back to our drinks and the game of pool if the cues hadn't been broken.
I like it

a reply to: Seamrog

As an example - putting down Christianity and those who follow it is a sport on this site. I could cite 8-10 regulars from memory. It is rarely - if ever - questioned.

Viewpoints strongly presented from a Christian perspective, however, ARE cannon fodder for some moderators and many posters. The Christian perspective is viewed as 'ignorant, hateful bigotry,' no matter how it is presented.

true that

I myself am a moderate Christian but it upsets me to no end when I read sky fairy o fundie or bible thumpers.

So I get involved at times because it bugs me.