Enacting a basic income for all Americans

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I live mostly from paycheck to paycheck. I set aside a little every month for savings, but for the most part the study is absolutely correct. I don't even know if I save even 5% of my annual earnings. And I'm not looking to get married or have kids in the near future.

Yep, most people I know are in the same boat.

Oh, we have nice furniture and a decent TV...a computer that's not to old and a decent amount of food in the fridge.

It's a nice facade, isn't it? All it would take is a major health emergency to loose it all like that *snaps fingers*

Buying the illusion of a "good life" is cheap, actually having the security to back it up though costs 100 times more.

originally posted by: SpaDe_
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Your vision is far from reality. Once you remove the rose colored lenses it will become all too clear how things really are and how they will really be. Some people are born dreamers, clearly you are one of them.

Or I study science and I understand that at the pace things are moving, AI, automation, and less scarcity means staggering unemployment numbers in the future, and the need for a basic income. I'm not saying the people who live only on basic income would be living the high life, quite the opposite. They would be just barely scraping by, able to afford rent, bills, and groceries and that's pretty much it. No wiggle room for entertainment or leisure travel. A basic income would be just that, BASIC.

In the future, income will come primarily from creative (and some service based) sources. You see the beginnings of this right now with your average joe making a living sharing videos of himself getting kicked in the crotch on youtube, or people making their living playing games online for other people to see on twitch.tv

There are people who earn a decent living creating and selling knicknacks on etsy, and ebay. People offering language learning assistance to people abroad looking to learn english, or any other language. Food will be freely available for fractions of what it costs today with 3D printers, which will be as common in homes as a microwave is today.

If you think I'm full of crap, imagine how people only 100 years ago view the world of today. They could never have possibly imagined that we'd hold the entirety of human knowledge in our pockets, that we could instantly talk face-to-face with someone halfway across the world with the push of a button, that people would be soaring through the skies as easily as birds do, or that we'd put people on that white disk in the sky called the moon.

Moore's law guarantees that future innovations will come even faster than in the past, but allow for even greater things than you or I can dream of. Will there be turmoil? You bet. Humans are still at the core a hunter species with a tribal mentality, but despite all of the wars we've had, we've always come out of them alive. You say I have Rose colored glasses.

I say I'm realist, and these things will be reality not just within our lifetimes, but perhaps within the next 30 years or less.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I do a little better than most. I have about 500,000 JPY put away in case of emergency. That's enough for me to get by for about 2-3 months if my job evaporates. Not sure exactly how much that is in US dollars, though.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

If you can get comfortable just scrapping by then why does capitalism exist and why do so many people constantly push the boundaries of innovation and work so hard to accomplish more when they could just simply exist?

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

They are already a reality.

Welfare, foodstamps, unemployement, PEL grants, WIC, section 8, social security.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I think we're already seeing a paradigm shift in the newer generations that are coming through the ranks.

At least in the industrial democracies of the world, populations seem to be slowing down, birth rates are dropping. More and more people in the 20's aren't so sure about having kids as their predecessors.

I think if you combine egocentrics with an unstable world economy, you're going to get a generation of people who aren't sure having a kid or two is really worth it.

The headline reads Half of America is $400 Away From Financial Disaster:

About half of Americans are saving no more than 5% of their incomes, according to Bankrate. Roughly one in five (18%) are saving nothing at all, and another 28% are saving only 5% of their annual income or less.

A study by the Federal Reserve found that 47% of consumers could not cover an emergency expense costing $400, or would have to cover it by either selling something or borrowing money.

According to a survey fielded by BMO Harris, 29% of Americans say that whatever they’ve got scraped together in their rainy day fund would last them no more than one month. One in five confess they would need to dip into their retirement savings in a financial emergency (and that’s probably most of those who have any money saved for retirement).

This is serious guys -- this is really not a good sign. I can understand now why my friends in the mid-20's and newly married aren't having kids right not.

Let me repeat once more what the Federal Reserve's study said: 47% of consumers could not cover an emergency expense costing $400, or would have to cover it by either selling something or borrowing money

I'm surprised that this surprises you.

it's the goal, afterall.

"Sold my soul to the company store"- soon everything will be purchased on credit (I'm sure many people here already buy their food on credit, as I do) and you'll work to repay debt that you're born with.
This is the inevitable conclusion of the creation of the strawman and our natural born debt to the central banking system.


Don't worry, it's true face is only now coming to light, and it's not pretty. It can't last as long as there are those of us willing to fight for our rights. It won't be long before what's left of those rights are stripped from us, and we, as humans, will be forced to choose what we do about it.

Good luck,
have fun!

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I do a little better than most. I have about 500,000 JPY put away in case of emergency. That's enough for me to get by for about 2-3 months if my job evaporates. Not sure exactly how much that is in US dollars, though.

About 4k usd- a little less than I've got in my mattress, but it'll likely last you a bit longer. It won't go far if you've got real debt, but it might be enough to bribe your way out of a sticky situation, even after world wide currency collapses.

This is the onset to a 2 class system.

Those that get their "base pay".

And those that earn their money.

The problem arises when their are too many getting "base pay" and not enough people earning their pay, because . . . that money has to come from somewhere.

So those that work will be supporting those that don't.

Now that may be awesome-super-duper-awesome for those who don't wish to work.

But it will highly irritate those who do.

a reply to: beezzer

Address the issue of a globally integrated workforce and automation that's eliminating most of the need for having people do the jobs in the first place.

Isn't that the exact implementation of communism that causes it to fail, only with more people and resources?

The "base pay" is "everyone", and those that "earn" more are the upper class?

You can bet your butt the people in charge of the system will earn way more than your average person, and your welfare junkies right now would also benefit greatly...

But then there's me. I work hard to get away from both those parties. I don't want my small slice of freedom to be taken from my at gun point, and have half given to those in power and the other half divided up among those who don't care.

originally posted by: beezzer
This is the onset to a 2 class system.

Those that get their "base pay".

And those that earn their money.

The problem arises when their are too many getting "base pay" and not enough people earning their pay, because . . . that money has to come from somewhere.

So those that work will be supporting those that don't.

Now that may be awesome-super-duper-awesome for those who don't wish to work.

But it will highly irritate those who do.

Unless those who do work are actually working for the good of the community and not just to have more money

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: beezzer

Address the issue of a globally integrated workforce and automation that's eliminating most of the need for having people do the jobs in the first place.

Why? Why do I have to give a tinkers damn about "someone else's employment"?

I have a job. I work. I earn. I really don't have the time nor the inclination to concern myself about someone else's employment.

That is "their" business. "They" should be concerned about earning and working and supporting themselves.

Not me.

Why should I care? Because I work?

originally posted by: lordcomac
Isn't that the exact implementation of communism that causes it to fail, only with more people and resources?

The "base pay" is "everyone", and those that "earn" more are the upper class?

You can bet your butt the people in charge of the system will earn way more than your average person, and your welfare junkies right now would also benefit greatly...

But then there's me. I work hard to get away from both those parties. I don't want my small slice of freedom to be taken from my at gun point, and have half given to those in power and the other half divided up among those who don't care.

Those of us who work are the new greedy elite.

We are now greedy because we want to keep what we earned and not "donate" to the greater good.

originally posted by: chizay

originally posted by: beezzer
This is the onset to a 2 class system.

Those that get their "base pay".

And those that earn their money.

The problem arises when their are too many getting "base pay" and not enough people earning their pay, because . . . that money has to come from somewhere.

So those that work will be supporting those that don't.

Now that may be awesome-super-duper-awesome for those who don't wish to work.

But it will highly irritate those who do.

Unless those who do work are actually working for the good of the community and not just to have more money

Who gives a damn why someone works?

It's no-ones business but that individual!

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: lordcomac
Isn't that the exact implementation of communism that causes it to fail, only with more people and resources?

The "base pay" is "everyone", and those that "earn" more are the upper class?

You can bet your butt the people in charge of the system will earn way more than your average person, and your welfare junkies right now would also benefit greatly...

But then there's me. I work hard to get away from both those parties. I don't want my small slice of freedom to be taken from my at gun point, and have half given to those in power and the other half divided up among those who don't care.

Those of us who work are the new greedy elite.

We are now greedy because we want to keep what we earned and not "donate" to the greater good.

Don't you already "donate" a portion of your earned pay to the "greater good"? Is that not what taxes are?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: lordcomac
Isn't that the exact implementation of communism that causes it to fail, only with more people and resources?

The "base pay" is "everyone", and those that "earn" more are the upper class?

You can bet your butt the people in charge of the system will earn way more than your average person, and your welfare junkies right now would also benefit greatly...

But then there's me. I work hard to get away from both those parties. I don't want my small slice of freedom to be taken from my at gun point, and have half given to those in power and the other half divided up among those who don't care.

Those of us who work are the new greedy elite.

We are now greedy because we want to keep what we earned and not "donate" to the greater good.

Don't you already "donate" a portion of your earned pay to the "greater good"? Is that not what taxes are?

I don't donate a god-damned thing concerning taxes.

Those are taken and if I refuse, I get punished.

a reply to: beezzer

Your a very selfish person beezer.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: beezzer

Your a very selfish person beezer.

You are an entitlement minded brat onequestion.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: beezzer

Your a very selfish person beezer.

Nope. Just a person. Just a hard working person.


But now I get to be labeled "selfish" because I don't believe in a frickin' nanny-state payroll give-a-way!

But if it makes you feel better labeling me selfish, then rock on!

a reply to: beezzer

You don't understand the inevitability of what were saying and not only is it inevitable it's already here.