Wage Required to Afford a 2-Bedroom Rental in Every State

originally posted by: Xtrozero

We are one truly mean ass animal no matter how we try to act.

We are a mean ass animal. If only that meanness could be applied toward looking out for fellow man.



The only thing holding us back, is ourselves and an outdated need for self preservation.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Where do you live?

Near to my mother, and my son, my son's and daughter's father (yes, we were MARRIED) and their father's mother, his brother, and my brother and his wife and kids (my niece, her husband, and my nephew.)

Our daughter is currently living in Minneapolis, and she and I can visit each other within 7 hours drive. Why do you ask?

When I retired from the military people asked me "where are you going to retire to" I said any place a job takes me, and many seemed puzzled by that reply.

I don't know what to say to that.

Perhaps you have no family ties. If I didn't have family ties, I'd be long gone.
My family is what keeps me here.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Nothing like 7 billion people, more than rats and mice combine....

Wait - what are you saying? That there are more humans than rats and mice combined?

Among land-based vertebrates, humanity's closest rivals in terms of sheer numbers are probably the brown rat (which, everyone agrees, outnumber us — but no one seems eager to count) and the domestic chicken (which numbered 18.6 billion in 2009, according to the Food and Agriculture Organization).

www.npr.org...

originally posted by: EternalSolace

We are a mean ass animal. If only that meanness could be applied toward looking out for fellow man.


The only thing holding us back, is ourselves and an outdated need for self preservation.

Outdated by what? In the terms of evolution we are not because 500 years (or maybe like 50 years) is nothing. I truly understand what you are getting at, but we have a long way to go and it will take a long time. We can even look back at the turn of the century and see just how bad humans can be on a daily bases.

One big problem we have today is there is a large percentage of us that do not care, that go though life doing the minimal amount of their abilities and living a rather crappy existence and accepting it without the desire to put in any effort to do better.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Xtrozero

Wait - what are you saying? That there are more humans than rats and mice combined?

There are about 5 billion rats... I'll give you one guess why there are 18 billion chickens.... My point is there is a large population of humans on the planet in numbers not seen by other larger animals and you all think everyone can have a nice 700 sq ft apartment.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
I don't know what to say to that.

Perhaps you have no family ties. If I didn't have family ties, I'd be long gone.
My family is what keeps me here.

I'm just saying that not every part of the country is a job garden spot. You need to analyze your ability to achieve where you live. If you put your family above everything then just accept it along with both positive and negative consequences.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Xtrozero

Wait - what are you saying? That there are more humans than rats and mice combined?

There are about 5 billion rats... I'll give you one guess why there are 18 billion chickens.... My point is there is a large population of humans on the planet in numbers not seen by other larger animals and you all think everyone can have a nice 700 sq ft apartment.

Why stop at 700 sqft? Lets give everyone 5 acres, that's 217,800 sqft per person. With a world population of 7 billion that's 1524600000000000 sqft. Converted that's 5,468,750 sqmi. That would be the combined area of Australia, Mexico, Texas, California, Montana, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and about 1/4 of Canada. That's without touching any other state, or any of Africa, South America, Europe, or Asia.

There is plenty of space for people.

In fact, if you took all of Canada including the icy tundra no one wants to live in you could fit 80% of the worlds population at 5 acres per person in just their territory.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Outdated by the simple fact that all poverty, all hunger, and all homelessness in the world could be eradicated ten times over. But because it hasn't happened, it perpetuates the need for "me and my own to come first above all".

a reply to: Xtrozero

If you put your family above everything then just accept it along with both positive and negative consequences.

Correct. I put my family above everything else; I also think that we have to put our nation's people's well-being (welfare) above all else. I accept that I 'live here' (when I'd prefer to be near the shore and mountains) because of my family. I CHOOSE to live here and CHOOSE to make sacrifices --- because of my family.

I guess you don't have any family ties, then. Sad that you can't relate.
You seem to be a very cynical, "cowboy-up, son!" kind of person. I recall you saying you were a 'warrior' (soldier). (So was my husband, and he is a PTSD sufferer. And he loves me and my family very much. He cares about us).

But beyond being intimately familiar with a former service-member, I can't relate at all to what you say. Yet I don't think it's 'sad' that I can't. I don't want to.

I have nothing else to say to your attitude except that I don't understand it. Oh, and also, I guess: "Bully for you! You got yours!"

Sometimes I think it would be nice to be an unfeeling person. But when I accept that I am, in fact, a highly sensitive, empathic/empathetic person - I realize I'm very happy that I am not a selfish, cold, cynical person. I'm happy that I put others above myself most of the time.
I'm no martyr, but I know what matters to me most - and it isn't money. It's community, family, the planet and co-inhabitants of it, and love.

But, that's just me.

i only work part time at the moment and make 9 dollars an hour working 28.5 hours a week. i have tried SO hard to find another job. i have looked into electrician and plumming training but they either want you to do unpaid apprenticeship or spend a ton of money i do not have for schooling. my husband makes 12 dollars and hour and always works at least 48 hours a week but some months we find it hard to pay rent, water, gas and electricity and buy food and other miscellaneous expenses (gas in car, etc). what scares me is the fact that im getting older and places DONT even want to give me a chance for an interview or anything. i have a good work history. and what is going to happen when i am 80 and I DONT own a home, i cant afford to pay exorbitant rent the rest of my freaking life. But i guess its just the american nightmare, eh? work your entire life and still dont have a pot to piss in.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
I guess you don't have any family ties, then. Sad that you can't relate.
You seem to be a very cynical, "cowboy-up, son!" kind of person. I recall you saying you were a 'warrior' (soldier). (So was my husband, and he is a PTSD sufferer. And he loves me and my family very much. He cares about us).

I have great family ties, but for me a few miles doesn't effect those ties. I guess it is all about perspective. I spent 3 decades in the military, enjoyed the places I lived around the world. My first responsibility is to take care of my family, and if that means I live in, who knows where, to do it I will do it.

Sometimes I think it would be nice to be an unfeeling person. But when I accept that I am, in fact, a highly sensitive, empathic/empathetic person - I realize I'm very happy that I am not a selfish, cold, cynical person. I'm happy that I put others above myself most of the time.
I'm no martyr, but I know what matters to me most - and it isn't money. It's community, family, the planet and co-inhabitants of it, and love.

We have different roles in life... My wife is actually a stay at home mom who works her butt off taking care of us all. I'm fortunate to be able to have that, I know. It allows me to have nothing holding me back to take care of them.

For me, and only me...

I do not expect a company to owe me anything but what we agree on when I was hired. If that was 8 bucks an hour than so be it, we agreed on the first day I started to work. Just because they hired me doesn't mean they owe me anything past what my pay is, they are not instantly responsible for my well being, or have the burden to ensure I have a 2 bed room apartment. I work and get paid period, and if I do not like the pay or think it is unfair I look for other work.

If there is no work, or if the only work is underpay for my skills then I blame the administration and congress for not getting it right.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
If there is no work, or if the only work is underpay for my skills then I blame the administration and congress for not getting it right.

Isn't this precisely what minimum wage workers are doing? Hours cut back, declining purchasing power resulting in being underpaid.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Yeah, yeah I don't care that you were in the military, bro, it doesn't impress me in the context of this thread and topic. At least not in the way you seem to be putting it forward, like it's a feather in your cap.....nono, the way it impresses me is that you have such a double-standard.

But - while we're at it ----- who do you think paid you for your 30 years???? The taxpayers!! The same people you want to screw over now. And what about your 'brothers in arms' - the ones who are homeless, injured, maimed either physically or mentally.....screw them if they can't find a decent job?


Your wife has the same role that I do - and my husband was in the military, too - so there. He suffers from PTSD, and yes, I know you said you don't, because you're all that and a bag of manly chips. How about if your job got out-sourced, and just disappeared?? Do you know that has happened to people? That is what happened to my husband, and then we spent ALL of our savings to survive. We had to start all over.

I, like blondegirl above (by the way, welcome to ATS, blondegirl!) am getting very worried.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I do not expect a company to owe me anything but what we agree on when I was hired. If that was 8 bucks an hour than so be it, we agreed on the first day I started to work. Just because they hired me doesn't mean they owe me anything past what my pay is, they are not instantly responsible for my well being, or have the burden to ensure I have a 2 bed room apartment.

No? So - you are a veteran - you took the job. The taxpayers paid your salary. There are now benefits via the VA - have you taken advantage of any of them? My husband took out a VA home loan - and then lost his job and had to "give it back" (Deed in Lieu). He has never even received the second half of his re-enlistment stipend... let alone support for his PTSD.



Or did you retire and say, "Thanks for the giggles, but now I'm done so, ya know, you can throw me to the wolves and if I fail, it's not your problem." ? Do you think military service members don't merit being paid a living wage to support their families, or getting any benefits??

Did you get your education through the military (either tuition or service training)? Are the skills you learned in the military, on the taxpayers' dime the same skills that are providing you with this fabulous post-retirement earning potential?

Who paid for your living during those 30 years? Taxpayers. Who paid for your service-related education and skills? Taxpayers.


I think your thinking is muddled. Impressively muddled.

originally posted by: Aazadan

Isn't this precisely what minimum wage workers are doing? Hours cut back, declining purchasing power resulting in being underpaid.

The problem is the speed at which people feel it should happen and the amount it should go up. It will go up but not to a living wage level. People here want minimum wage to equal a living wage that will get you a 2 bedroom apartment and all your needs, and that burden I guess rests on the employer to make it happen some how.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
No? So - you are a veteran - you took the job. The taxpayers paid your salary. There are now benefits via the VA - have you taken advantage of any of them? My husband took out a VA home loan - and then lost his job and had to "give it back" (Deed in Lieu). He has never even received the second half of his re-enlistment stipend... let alone support for his PTSD.

I signed a contract and fulfilled my obligations per said contract. Why hasn't you hubby received support though the VA?

Or did you retire and say, "Thanks for the giggles, but now I'm done so, ya know, you can throw me to the wolves and if I fail, it's not your problem." ? Do you think military service members don't merit being paid a living wage to support their families, or getting any benefits??

Lol WTF... I would love everyone to have a living wage, once again you went down some rabbit a hole that really has nothing to do with this subject. Your hubby should get all the benefits he deserves, your hubby deserves a good job, but do you think the counter person at burger king is a good job, a job your hubby would want and should it pay all that you need to support your family on?

Did you get your education through the military (either tuition or service training)? Are the skills you learned in the military, on the taxpayers' dime the same skills that are providing you with this fabulous post-retirement earning potential?

Who paid for your living during those 30 years? Taxpayers. Who paid for your service-related education and skills? Taxpayers.

What does working for the Government or a private company have to do with this? It seems to you that I'm suggesting your hubby and others should have a minimum wage job, and I'm not sure why you are thinking that. Have your hubby take his skills and get a better job than a no skill minimum wage job would be.

I think your thinking is muddled. Impressively muddled.

I do not know about that, your mixing all your issues into this and I am having a hard time understanding where you are trying to go with it when all we are talking about is whether minimum wage should provide everything you need to live on or not.

a reply to: Xtrozero

It seems to you that I'm suggesting your hubby and others should have a minimum wage job, and I'm not sure why you are thinking that.

No, that is not it. Not at all.
My hubby earns a handsome middle-class living as an IT professional. His skills are globally useful.

Anyway, clearly you don't get what I'm saying at all....
the taxpayers are making up for the pitiful wage that the burger-flippers are earning. The corporations COULD DO IT, and still make a kiling. They just WON'T - because they don't have to. Not only do their 'share-holders' keep them shored up, SO DO YOU AND I by subsidizing the wages via "us" rather than the CEOs who earn MILLIONS each year.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Anyway, clearly you don't get what I'm saying at all....
the taxpayers are making up for the pitiful wage that the burger-flippers are earning. The corporations COULD DO IT, and still make a kiling. They just WON'T - because they don't have to. Not only do their 'share-holders' keep them shored up, SO DO YOU AND I by subsidizing the wages via "us" rather than the CEOs who earn MILLIONS each year.

As part of the corporations "could do it" I say maybe or maybe not. There is a fine line there. Walmart can do better as can many other companies.

I guess the part I disagree with is the common thread here that all jobs should be mandated by the Government as a living wage. Even the military doesn't pay a living wage for many years and that is why people live on base/ships, get meal cards, BAH/OAH subsistence etc.

Should minimum wage be raised to about 10 bucks an hour, I say yes and that would put it in the range of the best that minimum wage has ever been, 1968. But even that has fallout, my neighbor closed up shop because he couldn't afford to pay the minimum wage in Washington State which is over 9 bucks an hour. That is just a fact of it all, also about 70% to 80% of America doesn't work for the evil corporations so sticking it to corporations a little is also burying the knife deep in small businesses, the majority of where people work.

The deal is people make a choice to work for Walmart for crappy wages or not. I don't even shop there since I think it is a horrid company, another choice. The reason why it has become a big issue these last 6+ years is because the Government has failed us in getting us out of the recession so companies have laid off and have not started to rehire until this year.

What has happened is families that had a living wage found themselves in a situation with no job except for the evil corp underplayed jobs, and so they took them, better than nothing, but not much better. So who do you blame? The corporation for not paying more or the Government failing to boost the economy so that (GOOD) jobs become plentiful? Stocking shelves at WalMart is still a no skill labor type work that will never pay what a person needs to make to live on, so instead of trying to make a turd better by putting perfume on it just understand there is a purpose for these types of jobs, but if the person in them is a 30 year old family man with many skills and not a 17 year old, then as I said, the Government at that point is the one who is failing us.

To try and fix it at the turd job level to provide a living wage to a family man will destroy small business in the process.

This is my point in all this...

My daughter makes 9/hr as a CNA. She spends every penny. If she made another 4/hr, she could afford extras, maybe a better place to live with her daughter. If demands increase, so will jobs. If I can't afford to pay wages, I don't hire employees. Businesses fail because they are bad.

a reply to: MOMof3

This isn't an attack on your daughter but thats a crap wage for a CNA.

She deserves to start at 15 an hour in my opinion and with our outrageous healthcare costs she damn well should be getting paid that much.