If He/She/It exists, does God love the atheists/agnostics?

a reply to: andy06shake

Consider this if we should stumble and fall regarding nuclear war its rather different than tripping over your own feet and scraping a knee while learning to walk. One would imagine i little advice is in order given humanity's penchant for destruction and the level of technological sophistication we are approaching. Thing is if our God or Gods don't turn up soon i imagine Humanity will simply build our own.

we were given advice, according to popular mythos. except four parts out of the ten that those instructions came in were tailored to soothe the vanity of the beast who "loves" us. perhaps we should spear the hog instead of cowering before it.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Well better to die on our feet than tremble on our knees before a creator who's existence is questionable or if he does exist simply seems not to care. I say spear away.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: WarminIndy

"It wasn't Christians who invented the nuclear bomb."

No it was Humanity that's responsible for the current atomic age. Christianity simply happens to be one colour of the rainbow.

"Exactly who is working on all of this destructive technology?"

Unfortunately that seems to be us, hence the need for guidance should our creator actually exist and/or care as to our future.

See my post before this one.

Earthlings are not God's slaves
we are not his pets
He has given us free will
and if we choose to destroy each other.
That is our choice, not his,
if he interfered with every bad choice
earthlings make we would be nothing
but slaves, puppets and pets.

originally posted by: Lightworth
For all we know, you may be right, as there's no proof of anything regarding what whomever and/or whatever exists in the unseen -- singular and/or plural -- thinks and feels about humanity. Perhaps it's all darker, MUCH darker than I for one want to believe. All I'm saying is, in absence of proof, at least to me, it's best to assume the responsibility on our own for real change and have enough DESIRE (overall) for more and better knowledge and experience than is allowed by the existing (secrecy-based) political world. Or the existing "alternative" of the same old around-and-around hasn't worked, and I would wager never will.

I completely agree (apart from the secret political stuff) 'a single pair of hands at work are worth more than a billion clasped in prayer' and all that jazz. But in relation to the OP's question, I stand by my comment that the 'prime directive' excuse for a loving god to not interfere, and at the very least help suffering children, is weak and lazy thinking.

Theists like to throw the word 'Love' around, but rarely show an understanding of it....

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: TzarChasm

Well better to die on our feet than tremble on our knees before a creator who's existence is questionable or if he does exist simply seems not to care. I say spear away.

And in the end God will respect your choice
(see my first post on page 2)
he will honor your choice
and he will not force you to live with him.

God does not want us to tremble on our knees
before him, he wants us to be his friends
he wants us as companions.
Therefore, he will not interfere in our
choices and will allow us to freely make our
own choices.
He does not want humans as pets who tremble
before their master.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: WarminIndy

"It wasn't Christians who invented the nuclear bomb."

No it was Humanity that's responsible for the current atomic age. Christianity simply happens to be one colour of the rainbow.

"Exactly who is working on all of this destructive technology?"

Unfortunately that seems to be us, hence the need for guidance should our creator actually exist and/or care as to our future.

As a Christian, I am opposed to nuclear weapons.

I am also opposed to any technology that is destructive. I am not working on nor agreeing to any more weaponry or technology that might harm others.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Ever think that our free will was not exactly part of the plan? To me free will seems rather counterproductive to any plan or predestination that our bible or numerous other religious texts seem to imply.

If humanity does indeed possess free will i imagine we took it rather than received it as a gift.

a reply to: grandmakdw

God does not want us to tremble on our knees
before him, he wants us to be his friends
he wants us as companions.

i dont worship my friends, nor do they ask me to.

Therefore, he will not interfere in our
choices and will allow us to freely make our
own choices.

that depends on which god you speak of. there are many to choose from, after all, and each as likely as the last.

He does not want humans as pets who tremble
before their master.

so THATS why abraham would rather slaughter his only child than risk the wrath of the almighty...

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: WarminIndy

"It wasn't Christians who invented the nuclear bomb."

No it was Humanity that's responsible for the current atomic age. Christianity simply happens to be one colour of the rainbow.

"Exactly who is working on all of this destructive technology?"

Unfortunately that seems to be us, hence the need for guidance should our creator actually exist and/or care as to our future.

As a Christian, I am opposed to nuclear weapons.

I am also opposed to any technology that is destructive. I am not working on nor agreeing to any more weaponry or technology that might harm others.

God treats earthlings with respect
he allows us to make our own decisions
he respects our decisions
we are not his lap dogs and he is not our
Master who trains us to do his will
and to obey him at all times.
(see my post on page 2)

It is definitely not God's will that we destroy each other.
But did you every stop and think of all the progress
and good things that came out of the research that
led to destructive weapons.

It is human beings, given free will by God,
who does not treat us like zoo animals to be trained,
but as friends and companions,
who allows us to develop technology "prime directive"
and we earthlings are the ones who have made
the choice to not only use the research for good,
but to also use the research for self-destruction.

The evil choice is upon humanity,
earthlings in general,
not God.

a reply to: grandmakdw

"God treats earthlings with respect"

Debatable but if that's the case how does he/she/it treat the other sentient members of our universe? Does he hold sway over vast amounts of there populations also by way of promising eternal damnation should they choose not to toe his particular line of thought?

And please keep in mind the universe is a big place.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: grandmakdw

God does not want us to tremble on our knees
before him, he wants us to be his friends
he wants us as companions.

i dont worship my friends, nor do they ask me to.

Therefore, he will not interfere in our
choices and will allow us to freely make our
own choices.

that depends on which god you speak of. there are many to choose from, after all, and each as likely as the last.

He does not want humans as pets who tremble
before their master.

so THATS why abraham would rather slaughter his only child than risk the wrath of the almighty...

I can see the hurt in your reply.

You are angry and hurt, though you will deny it.

If you really didn't believe in God, then you really wouldn't care at all about those who do.
You'd say, meh, live and let live, who cares, it doesn't hurt anyone else.

So no matter what I say you will respond with hurt and anger
because of the intensity of your feelings
that come from some experience you had
with someone who said they were Christian
but then turned around and hurt you in some way.
I apologize for them,
a true Christian tries hard not to hurt others,
but all Christians are imperfect and make mistakes,
and sometimes hurt others.
So I'm sorry for whatever caused pain in you so deep
that you feel the need to lash out, rather than
to live and let live.

That is my philosophy,
live and let live,
you make the choice,
because you are the one
to live with the choice you make, not me.

My response was not to condemn anyone, but
rather to respond to the OP question
with as honest a response as I could give.

Sorry my honest response caused
such pain within you.

a reply to: Prezbo369

If there's an essential validity to the Prime Directive idea (as presented in Star Trek stories), it's not a matter of loving or not loving, but that the results of premature interference are disastrous regardless of intention. True or not, I'll always believe the best policy is to "get a grip and get busy," and not depend on anyone else, unless proved otherwise.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I can see the hurt in your reply.

You are angry and hurt, though you will deny it.

and i can see you trying to patronize me and outline some perceived instability in one swing. thats okay, this isnt my first rodeo.

If you really didn't believe in God, then you really wouldn't care at all about those who do.
You'd say, meh, live and let live, who cares, it doesn't hurt anyone else.

i care about government and i care about the general self-determinism of the human race. that and im just wasting a bit of time right now. but to say it doesnt hurt anyone...sure, NOW it doesnt. because it is illegal to persecute people based on religion or lack thereof. it wasnt that long ago when we had our own little variant of ISIS terrorizing the indigenous people of america.

Sorry my honest response caused
such pain within you.

dont be sorry, you havent hurt me in the slightest.

a reply to: Lightworth

Society only functions because people depend on other people, cooperation makes the world go round.

Dependence whether it be others that depend on you, or your own dependence on others probably has a lot to do with our ability to empathize, rather a large part of what makes us Human.

Maby if he / she exists then maby he / she should prove to the agnostics and atheists that they are wrong!

originally posted by: RandalFlagg
Maby if he / she exists then maby he / she should prove to the agnostics and atheists that they are wrong!

coming from stephen kings take on lucifer...lol

a reply to: TzarChasm

but to say it doesnt hurt anyone...sure, NOW it doesnt.

But yes, it does - every day.

You know my opinion - any child being told "God" will destroy, reject, or send them to burn in hell - that they are worthless sinners who don't DESERVE whatever mercy they receive - or threatened with abandonment by their own actual families and communities is "hurt."

@Lightfoot:
Great thread, S/F;
my response is that yes, if there is a "God," He/She/It doesn't care at all about "labels" or "lip service."
The "Prime Directive" is do no harm. (I know you are talking about "non-interference" when you say "Prime Directive", by the way). It is, in my opinion, help when you can. Encourage others to do so as well. Don't be an a$$hole.

For the record,
I'm an anti-theist agnostic, and all I can do is be my best self, care for those in my circle of influence (people, animals, plants, bugs, etc - with the exception of mosquitoes, ticks, fleas, and poison ivy; what a bunch of ne'er-do-well good-for-nothings!!- that is where I draw the line) to the best of my ability, and try not to be hateful.

The fact is, though, there are MANY things I hate about people in general. Hurting children and animals is never okay.
Wrecking our planet is never okay. Beheading people??? In the name of "God"? yeah - todays' pop monotheism sucks in LOTS of ways.

When it comes to human beings, "God" is reflected in kindness and cooperation, in those who strive for the common good. Would that include atheists and agnostics? Of course it would. And if it wouldn't, then I don't include "It" as a worthwhile role model or 'hero' or 'friend'.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You know my opinion - any child being told "God" will destroy, reject, or send them to burn in hell - that they are worthless sinners who don't DESERVE whatever mercy they receive - or threatened with abandonment by their own actual families and communities is "hurt."

but it isnt obligatory to take such opinions (and they are opinions) seriously anymore than the colbert report.

not your opinion, the opinion that we are worthless but for the grace of odin and whatnot.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Young children don't know it isn't "obligatory".... when the adults they depend on for survival are telling them this, it's traumatizing.

That's why I say "religion is for adults."
Youths in middle school can probably handle comparative religion "classes" and start to get it. At that point they should be sufficiently 'stable' to make a choice. My daughter tried the "Youth Group" in HS - with my permission. She went to the summer-camp, and on her first day, the leaders told all the kids they were pieces of crap and to go to bed.
She couldn't believe her ears.
The next morning, they said, "But here's the good news! If you just say "I love Jesus", it will all be okay!"

It totally turned her off, and she quit the group. Good on her!
My son has no interest in religion at all, and I'm fine with that. They are respectful of others, but not indoctrinated. Now they are adults. Secular, productive, conscientious, loving adults.
No "God" required.

a reply to: Lightworth

The only possible reason I can think of for the lack of intervention by God (if existing) and/or whatever unseen ETs and/or interdimensional beings and/or the like is this: The "Prime Directive" or whatever equivalent is REAL, though at least as far as I can tell, it shouldn't be an absolutely permanent and reactionary policy. Perhaps whoever is out there is just waiting to see how much REAL progress we can make on our own (if ever enough) before any formal Contact or proved presence can occur, before we're ready for the next level.

Another possibility is that the old gods have retired. Once they passed on what they had to give to humanity; hunting, art, music, metallurgy, geometry, agriculture, horticulture, etc. they gave their names as concepts within the arts and sciences. Then they retired.

People have advanced beyond what the gods had to give. Piety would be to thank the gods for what they gave and then go on to build upon the foundation. For an example take Analytic Geometry. To get it all working together you need a coordinate system. Yaaa! We have one: Cartesian Coordinate system named after René Descartes. Descartes is not one of the old gods, yet, concepts and methods can be attributed to him, just as previous concepts and methods were attributed to the old gods.

The question then becomes: Do we love the gods that came before us in such a way as to build upon the foundations they have left us?