We are more than just a body

originally posted by: SystemResistor
If we could alter or warp the rules of reality, then the gap between the observed phenomenon and the observer himself, narrows.

The inability to control reality is what creates a barrier between the two parties.

What is appearing is a dream. That body that you assume is you is just part of the dream scenery. You are the dreamer of the dream but have no control over what is arising as the dream.
How far apart is the dream from the dreamer?

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
a reply to: mryang
All I mean is if God is the creator and father of all souls, then how can a created soul (human) can be the creator of another soul (Artificial Intelligence)?

We can not create souls, nor can any other entity create souls. "Soul" is the very awareness of ALL beings in this Universe and others and have existed since "existence" begun.

GOD isn't a word I am familiar with, I rather think we are all and same part of god as we are soulful beings.

originally posted by: SystemResistor
This is a deep concept, when it comes to an object such a balloon, there is the aspect that it requires an observer in order to exist in the mind of factual reality, however, one could use their mind to hallucinate an object, the difference between the hallucinatory object and the "real" object is that the "real" object is subject to the laws of reality. If we could alter or warp the rules of reality, then the gap between the observed phenomenon and the observer himself, narrows.

The inability to control reality is what creates a barrier between the two parties.

True. I do think we CAN alter AND warp "reality" as we create our own reality and that it is really depending on the observer.

A lost key can be retrieved by creating the assumption that it always has been in a drawer - When you find the key in the drawer both realities that

1) it wasn't there the last time you checked and
2) that it now is in the drawer

can be true. However, I can't explain that further.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

We are more than just a body

Thank you for posting this and sharing your insights ...

a reply to: socketdude

The human definition and creation of the ideas of soul and spirit are simply manifestations of ignorance.

To say the soul is a manifestation of ignorance is a statement of ignorance ...

We just do not know how the brain works, with regards to "imagination". But science will eventually explain this given enough time

I see you have faith in science ... religion also depends upon faith

originally posted by: SystemResistor
This is a deep concept, when it comes to an object such a balloon, there is the aspect that it requires an observer in order to exist in the mind of factual reality, however, one could use their mind to hallucinate an object, the difference between the hallucinatory object and the "real" object is that the "real" object is subject to the laws of reality. If we could alter or warp the rules of reality, then the gap between the observed phenomenon and the observer himself, narrows.

The inability to control reality is what creates a barrier between the two parties.

What exactly are the laws of reality? Why can't there be multiple laws (as we question with quantum mechanic), one for this mind/body/soul existence, then another once the spirit is released? How do we even know we are correct in understanding the established physical laws. I wonder how many scientists tweek their equations to match their theories.

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
we are just a body with a great mind!

originally posted by: InTheLight
The problem is for those that cannot experience anything other than the physical realm, there seems no way to make them understand, or attempt certain physical actions to get to the physical OHM vibrational transition.

Imo everything is in the physical realm, we just don't know how to solve some remaining mysteries yet through science!

So all these religious or metaphysical, superstitious and supernatural thoughts come in our curious human minds, in order to give an answer for all our insecurities and inner fears we have, in this great experience we call life

Let's believe that everything is physical, so then is spirit and spirit rising into the physical/ethereal realm (let's say the force, the unified consciousness) can also be thought of as a spiritual/physical manipulation of energy to another form; energy transformed, yet controlled by our will/consciousness.

originally posted by: InTheLight
The problem is for those that cannot experience anything other than the physical realm, there seems no way to make them understand, or attempt certain physical actions to get to the physical OHM vibrational transition.

that is due to the physical death of the body, and not being able to return because of it....oh sorry read the rest of your replies, and came back and did some editing, I'll leave now

Full interview;

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: mryang

I don't think you need to be self-aware to have a soul. Self-awareness is only a by product of a complex brain structure, but anything that is alive and is animated has a soul. If there were no soul within say a jellyfish, it would not be alive. Whether it is self-aware has no bearing on whether it has a soul or not in my opinion.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
When you think of something, say a red balloon, where is that red balloon located? In the brain? If a doctor decides to dissect your brain to try and find this red balloon that you told him was in your brain, will he find a tiny red balloon inside of your gray matter? If not, then where is that balloon at? How can you "see" it if not with your eyes? If it is not in your brain then it must be "somewhere" right? Otherwise you would not see it.

How does that image pop up and where are you seeing it at/from? Can you hold that balloon you're thinking of in your hand? Do you see it with your eyes? If not, then it cannot be physical, yet it is still a part of your being. How can something immaterial be present within a strictly material body? If we are only a physical body then we would only be able to see physical things with our physical eyes, yet we can imagine anything within our minds, from a teacup floating somewhere out there in our solar system to lost loved ones. How does a strictly material existence account for such immaterial things like intellect, imagination, emotions, memory, dreams, etc.?

We are more than a body, we are also a soul and Spirit. The invisible qualities we possess such as the ones I listed above are aspects of an invisible side that we never see, our bodies tap into it but we can never see it.

In it, all things are possible, and because of it we have had the advances in technology, art, science, etc. we see today. Without the invisible side of existence, we would be nothing more than husks, bodies with no life within them. When the soul/Spirit leaves the body death is the result, when the soul/Spirit enters the body birth is the result. Without that invisible aspect, there is no experience, just as a lifeless rock has no experience.

Those who believe we are only a body, what do you see these things as? What are thoughts, dreams, emotions, etc.? Yes, they have physical processes that lead to their emergence, but the effect is not the same as the cause. What are these invisible effects that stem from physical processes in your opinion?

What about a laptop ? It can display many things on its screen, yet if you open the case, you wont find anything. Imagine that you travel in time and you show that laptop to a Greek philosopher of the antiquity, what would be his reaction ? What incredible theory is he going to invent to explain the marvels that the screen of the laptop can display ?

We are in the same situation regarding the brain, it's not because we don't understand it that it means that we should invent theories in which magic is involved.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: mryang

I don't think you need to be self-aware to have a soul. Self-awareness is only a by product of a complex brain structure, but anything that is alive and is animated has a soul. If there were no soul within say a jellyfish, it would not be alive. Whether it is self-aware has no bearing on whether it has a soul or not in my opinion.

Good thread.

If no one has observed an instance where a soul has vacated a body and left it dead, I'm curious as to what leads you to believe a soul keeps it from dying, or makes it alive?

a reply to: Aphorism

Let's call it intuition.

There's a difference between a live body and a dead one. Yes, neurons no longer fire in the brain, but what is it that makes them fire and in any certain way? What makes the "decision" for them to no longer fire?

When someone dies, three is a change, but what is it? The brain is exactly the same right before and right after death, but what about in between? That's where the soul comes into play in my opinion.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
When you think of something, say a red balloon, where is that red balloon located? In the brain? If a doctor decides to dissect your brain to try and find this red balloon that you told him was in your brain, will he find a tiny red balloon inside of your gray matter? If not, then where is that balloon at? How can you "see" it if not with your eyes? If it is not in your brain then it must be "somewhere" right? Otherwise you would not see it.

You are a biological computer, creating all the parameters in your own "virtual drive" (your brain). Thoughts of images, sounds, and even tastes are all merely information stored in your brain cells that you access and modify. During creative times, you literally compile new ones, which you call "ideas".

Sometimes when a "file" isnt accessed for long enough, or wasn't stored 'strongly' enough (via your own value system), you will partially or even completely forget it, which is akin to a biological decay of the information stored over time, as the cells lessen in ability and grow with age. How susceptable a file is to this effect depends on how important the thought was. Sometimes traumatic thoughts have a different effect on this entire system and try to un-do themselves. Some files can be stored as toxic or become toxic over time, causing damages to the system (mental illnesses).

So in truth, the red balloon truly does not exist and is not located anywhere. It's a simulation or image of a red balloon which is literal data which has literally been created or assimilated by your brain in literal biological cells which somehow magically store all of our thoughts, knowledge, know-how, and memories. It's not much different from making a picture of a red balloon on paintshop on a computer, if you want to draw the analogy.

How does that image pop up and where are you seeing it at/from? Can you hold that balloon you're thinking of in your hand? Do you see it with your eyes? If not, then it cannot be physical, yet it is still a part of your being. How can something immaterial be present within a strictly material body? If we are only a physical body then we would only be able to see physical things with our physical eyes, yet we can imagine anything within our minds, from a teacup floating somewhere out there in our solar system to lost loved ones. How does a strictly material existence account for such immaterial things like intellect, imagination, emotions, memory, dreams, etc.?

It's the minute nature of intelligent life as we know it. There are laws that determine and control how all of this takes place, who/what/when/where/why and how. We just seem mystified or boggled by it because of how intricate a system it truly is.

In fact, the invention of the Computer is merely a reflection of the nature of man.

The more that we find out, the clearer it becomes that we're just another type of animal at the zoo, stuck in this physical reality with all of its laws and implications, even if we don't like them. Even if they (might) mean that we do not even have souls or an afterlife.

I watched a young bird fall from the nest yesterday. It seemed fine, just couldn't fly, and the mother was dropping down and feeding it on the ground. It was still dead within minutes, for seemingly no reason. Utterly pointless. Is that bird still existing somehow in an afterlife in spirit form? If it isn't, why would we? We're just animals too. Birds comprehend basic information through their senses and physical brain just like us. We're just more complex of an organism and more intelligent. The only reason for that is because of the DNA code we were "compiled" with when we entered existence. A simple code yields a simple organism, a complex code yields a complex organism.

Are they not made from the same base ingredients, with the same basic vital systems (breathing of oxygen, drinking of water, etc)?

As I get older, it seems more and more like wishful thinking that there's anything seemingly "magical" to it, though I do continue to look. Everything under the sun is explainable in some manner and exists through the known and possibly unknown laws of math and science. Everything has to be (explainable, in theory at least), because how could it exist otherwise, if not for some "logical" system existing which creates it and/or allows it to be?

i sincerely hope so.

a reply to: r0xor

I enjoyed your post, thanks for sharing.

As for the "afterlife", we're already there in my opinion. This is only one form among the infinite others that we have and will inhabit. Life finds a way and life goes on, we are that life. Where does someone go when they die? Maybe we can find the answers by looking at birth.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: mryang

I don't think you need to be self-aware to have a soul. Self-awareness is only a by product of a complex brain structure, but anything that is alive and is animated has a soul. If there were no soul within say a jellyfish, it would not be alive. Whether it is self-aware has no bearing on whether it has a soul or not in my opinion.

It's important we separate the correct terminology, so to avoid confusion.
Your equation of putting "moving around with it's own power" = SOUL,

then we are talking about two different things.

To me, SOUL is a crude word to describe the all-in-one-knowing-power-of-the-Universe. And to have a soul you must KNOW you have a soul. You can of course call a Jellyfish a soulful being - HOWEVER, to distinguish the difference between beings not knowing their own existence and beings that does, I choose to call Beings that knows their own existence as SPIRITS, as to avoid the discrepancy in taxonomy.

Thus we get the following:

SPIRITS = Beings that knows their own existence
SOULS = Beings that moves around with their own power, but not knowing they exist, the difference between YOU and ME, the awareness of their world or anything else for that matter. Basically, ROBOTS.

Now, can you reformulate your opinion?

a reply to: mryang

I can dig that. I'd reverse it though, souls are awareness of being, Spirit is the animating force that gives rise to the soul in some instance. There is only one Spirit but many souls.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I lean more on Aristotle's concept of the soul,
that although the soul is not a material object, it is not separable from the body.

for anyone interested
Aristotle's view of the soul:

-There is no inner/outer contrast. The soul is not an inner spectator, in direct contact only with its own perceptions and other psychic states, having to infer the existence of a body and an “external” world.

-There is thus no notion of the privacy of experience, the incorrigibility of the mental, etc., in Aristotle’s picture.

-The soul is not an independently existing substance. It is linked to the body more directly: it is the form of the body, not a separate substance inside another substance (a body) of a different kind. It is a capacity, not the thing that has the capacity.

-It is thus not a separable soul. (It is, at most, pure thought, devoid of personality, that is separable from the body on Aristotle’s account.)

-Soul has little to do with personal identity and individuality. There is no reason to think that one (human) soul is in any important respect different from any other (human) soul. The form of one human being is the same as the form of any other.

-There is, in this sense, only soul, and not souls. You and I have different souls because we are different people. But we are different human beings because we are different compounds of form and matter. That is, different bodies both animated by the same set of capacities, by the same (kind of) soul.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

From www.evawaseerst.be...
What do you do with love, justice, guild feelings, altruism … Very abstract but you can feel it. I ask myself if we are the only creatures on this planet who can feel those feelings.
And I’ m sure a lot of us only think about themselves but still the abstract feelings are so clear in a lot of others.
Plato learned us that God, Love and Light are bounded in a very close relationship. Plato learned us too that this world is just a reflection of the real world. That the materialistic world is not the real world. That after dead our soul enters 'The Light', the real world.