You Have No Idea What Happened (We get many details wrong when recalling past memories)

a reply to: Aliensun

I see nothing new in this thread except an effort to paint witness accounts of UFO experiences as faulty at the onset which then allows the denial of any aspect the "investigator" wishes to put forth. I've mentioned frequently of efforts to revise the historical context of UFOs by those that have a duty or need to deny them.

I think what you are saying is that we should collectively remain ignorant so as not to disrupt the well established poor investigative techniques of ufology.

So what about the hard evidence of UFOs? Not too conducive to the manipulation of revisionism is it?

That will be discussed in the "denying the hard evidence thread".

originally posted by: JackHill
What are the 'surroundings' details regarding little creatures entering at some dude's house, going through solid walls, immobilizing him, taking him to some sort of spaceship, doing medical procedures on him, and returning him some time later?

I'm intrigued.

You are talking about "abduction memories".

Memory Distortion in People Reporting Abduction by Aliens

The Construction of Space Alien Abduction Memories

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: funbox

what if the eyewitness to the u.f.o, is proven to have a photographic memory after the event ?

Certainly interesting. I had a psych professor who mastered memorization using mnemonics. On the first day of class he demonstrated this by asking each students to say their name out loud. Conservatively, there was 50 students (I don't recall exactly). He then went in order and pointed to each student individually and said their name. He missed one but corrected himself. This was 20 years ago so I might not be remembering this correctly. Regardless, its a cool memory.

The central part of that memory may or may not be fine.

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Arbitrageur

I see nothing new in this thread except an effort to paint witness accounts of UFO experiences as faulty at the onset which then allows the denial of any aspect the "investigator" wishes to put forth. I've mentioned frequently of efforts to revise the historical context of UFOs by those that have a duty or need to deny them.

This particular method looks only at individual reports about the phenomena and is quick to cast doubt on the entire event. That is a vulnerable spot, of course, and makes it a likely point of attack if one wishes to use an outside, "scientific" parameter to attack the whole premise of ET UFOs without even touching the physical fact of the matter that something unworldly was apparently witnessed.

So what about the hard evidence of UFOs? Not too conducive to the manipulation of revisionism is it?

Historical revisionism has always been more characteristic of UFO folklorists than skeptics... sorry, "deniers".

I imagine the constant noise of bogus information has colored in many of the details witnesses lacked, without their knowledge. There's a reason why cops separate eyewitnesses at the scene.

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: funbox

what if the eyewitness to the u.f.o, is proven to have a photographic memory after the event ?

Certainly interesting. I had a psych professor who mastered memorization using mnemonics. On the first day of class he demonstrated this by asking each students to say their name out loud. Conservatively, there was 50 students (I don't recall exactly). He then went in order and pointed to each student individually and said their name. He missed one but corrected himself. This was 20 years ago so I might not be remembering this correctly. Regardless, its a cool memory.

The central part of that memory may or may not be fine.

If I remember, there were a couple of babes there that were pretty damn fine...

originally posted by: Aliensun
So what about the hard evidence of UFOs? Not too conducive to the manipulation of revisionism is it?

Truly hard evidence survives all scrutiny and needn't be shielded by the faithful.

Because of the way we are wired to process and prioritize our perceptions, recall alone cannot be considered reliable.

originally posted by: funbox
a reply to: Arbitrageur

im surprised they left out people *autistic or otherwise* with photographic memory's from the study, it would have made an interesting comparison,.. a bit late now

to me this article sounds like a small snippet of justification for doing some long lasting change's to the legal systems

funbox

Illinois dropped the death penalty because of bogus or coerced eyewitness testimony. I think lasting changes are in order.


There was a memory "savant" that was on a few documentaries a while back. As I recall, and this may or may not be a reliable memory, the structure that joins the two halves of his brain was different from the rest of ours making it impossible for him to prioritize and filter incoming information. He was physically unable to forget. Pretty cool.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: funbox

what if the eyewitness to the u.f.o, is proven to have a photographic memory after the event ?

Certainly interesting. I had a psych professor who mastered memorization using mnemonics. On the first day of class he demonstrated this by asking each students to say their name out loud. Conservatively, there was 50 students (I don't recall exactly). He then went in order and pointed to each student individually and said their name. He missed one but corrected himself. This was 20 years ago so I might not be remembering this correctly. Regardless, its a cool memory.

the memory man , I guess there have been many, your teacher learnt these skills or methodology, some have it almost switched on at birth, the question ide like an answer to, is why are these people so few...?

interesting

funbox

a reply to: draknoir2

Illinois dropped the death penalty because of bogus or coerced eyewitness testimony. I think lasting changes are in order.

the only thing I can think of that would be that change you mention , would be to remove human biases and perishing memory's, so a jury of Aliens or a Jury of Robots/A.I.

I wonder how that might come about ?

There was a memory "savant" that was on a few documentaries a while back. As I recall, and this may or may not be a reliable memory, the structure that joins the two halves of his brain was different from the rest of ours making it impossible for him to prioritize and filter incoming information. He was physically unable to forget. Pretty cool.

different in what way ? do you have the documentary link ?

funbox

a reply to: funbox

The corpus callosum (?) was different. I think, I'll look for it.

originally posted by: funbox

the only thing I can think of that would be that change you mention , would be to remove human biases and perishing memory's, so a jury of Aliens or a Jury of Robots/A.I.

I wonder how that might come about ?

Simply raising the standards of evidence in cases of sexual assault and murder would solve much of the problem.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: JackHill
What are the 'surroundings' details regarding little creatures entering at some dude's house, going through solid walls, immobilizing him, taking him to some sort of spaceship, doing medical procedures on him, and returning him some time later?

I'm intrigued.

You are talking about "abduction memories".

Memory Distortion in People Reporting Abduction by Aliens

The Construction of Space Alien Abduction Memories

I'm talking about conscious abduction memories. You know, like consciously taking a walk, consciously driving a car, consciously working, consciously watching TV...

originally posted by: draknoir2
a reply to: funbox

The corpus callosum (?) was different. I think, I'll look for it.

The names of the documentaries escape me, but I'm thinking of this guy:

en.m.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: MystikMushroom
IN the instance of the UFO sighting/missing time my wife and I experienced, our experiences matched up with one another almost exactly upon comparison.

a reply to: JackHill

I'm talking about conscious abduction memories. You know, like consciously taking a walk, consciously driving a car, consciously working, consciously watching TV...

I believe that the explanation is that those are distortions of memory and false memories recovered from hypnosis generated through confabulation. Not something I am 100% sold on as being 100% of the story. The argument might be that the person "consciously driving a car" is not really conscious. I am really good at zoning out while driving particularly if I am really tired or its late. I think everyone that drives has experienced arriving to work and not really remembering the drive. I remember driving home after work and being really tired and taking the wrong exit and going the wrong way on the highway for a good 30 minutes before realizing it. People also fall asleep while driving.

Just a couple of hours ago I was consciously reading something and realized I was dreaming and then snapped out of it, started consciously reading again and then it happened again, so I took the opportunity to do some lucid dream reading.

At any rate, all those things you mentioned have to be retrieved from memory and are subjected to the same distortions of memory as any other human activity. The short answer is that those are false memories. My advice is to keep current with the research around all this because as it stands now, there are very few in psych or related fields, if any, that wont completely dismiss these types of reports and it wont much matter if it actually happened. The best you can hope for will be something like this:

a reply to: draknoir2

cheers , I know who you mean now , I've seen doc's on him before , hmmm, there always seem to be a trade off when the balance tips so far one way , was interesting to note how quickly the military was to scan him later in life , no doubt looking for an advantage

funbox

a reply to: draknoir2

yes, your memory is absolutely fine....@ 2:00 ....rain man, corpus callosum ...


Do they still use "idiot"?

originally posted by: funbox

there always seem to be a trade off when the balance tips so far one way

I almost posted that.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Memory weakens. Yes. This applies to the trained observers, to whom credibility is automatically awarded. And for the rest of us, not only do we relinguish our credibility upon disclosing some ufo experience, but we are reminded that our very memories just aren't up to snuff. Id like to point out to the paper shufflers - the researchers - who expect to fall on some magical combination of pics, videos and documents, producing Truth! out the other side, are foiled, too, when they forget and distort.

This is a subject many UFO buffs don't want to discuss, but it's quite valid. I watched a special, some years ago, on memory. A tudy was done, in which they took a group out on a hike, and the whole thing was videotaped. They encountered a small area with some stuff scattered around, and there might have been someone there (I can't recall, lol!), but it wasn't anything weird, really. Later, they had all the participants discuss the memories, separately and together, if I remember correctly, and they "recalled" details that simply didn't exist! Many swore there were military types around warning them away, and the scattered stuff, as benign as an old oil drum or whatever, was suddenly very unusual, and like a crashed craft or something of the sort. You could tell, watching the people talk, that they really believed what thy remembered, though most of it was utterly false. The whole thing was wild to watch!