Ameritox Urine Drug Test has destroyed my doctor/patient relationship... literally.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I don't know a lot of PCMs down there, but I could give a look see if I get a PM with the city or town.

Well, that is the nicest thing a doctor has offered to do for me lately.

I will send you a PM right now with the name of my city, in case you know anyone in my area.

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: tigertatzen
a reply to: NavyDoc

I feel bad for her. Tempted to just call in her refills as I've got a SC license too. Technically illegal though, so maybe I'll just try to figure out who to refer her. I don't know a lot of PCMs down there, but I could give a look see if I get a PM with the city or town.

That's because you're a good doctor

You actually care. I feel bad for her too...it really pisses me off when it's blatantly obvious that someone has been lied to or manipulated like that, especially by someone who is in a position of power...which is what a physician is to most patients. Making it look as if she's doing something wrong or illegal, meanwhile leaving her high and dry without medical care she obviously needs. I lived in SC years ago but don't know anyone there anymore to refer her to. This is just so messed up.

I guess I can see not wanting to continue with schedule II's after a weird UDS, but I already explained how I would have handled the situation and a single weird UDS is not necessarily grounds for an automatic discharge, IMHO. However, the doctor could have just said that he was no longer comfortable giving her schedule II's but kept up with her other necessary, non-controlled medication.

This is my point. I honestly thought the doctor cared about me. Fifteen years. And suddenly the trust is broken. How can I ever really feel safe to trust another one? How will they ever trust me when they read that letter? I can't explain how surreal this is to me. And frightening. What if no doctor will accept me as a patient? Like I said, it's a small town. They probably all know each other.

I understand and I feel for you. A doctor patient relationship can be more intimate than a married couple. We will figure this out.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: tigertatzen
a reply to: NavyDoc

I feel bad for her. Tempted to just call in her refills as I've got a SC license too. Technically illegal though, so maybe I'll just try to figure out who to refer her. I don't know a lot of PCMs down there, but I could give a look see if I get a PM with the city or town.

That's because you're a good doctor

You actually care. I feel bad for her too...it really pisses me off when it's blatantly obvious that someone has been lied to or manipulated like that, especially by someone who is in a position of power...which is what a physician is to most patients. Making it look as if she's doing something wrong or illegal, meanwhile leaving her high and dry without medical care she obviously needs. I lived in SC years ago but don't know anyone there anymore to refer her to. This is just so messed up.

I guess I can see not wanting to continue with schedule II's after a weird UDS, but I already explained how I would have handled the situation and a single weird UDS is not necessarily grounds for an automatic discharge, IMHO. However, the doctor could have just said that he was no longer comfortable giving her schedule II's but kept up with her other necessary, non-controlled medication.

This is my point. I honestly thought the doctor cared about me. Fifteen years. And suddenly the trust is broken. How can I ever really feel safe to trust another one? How will they ever trust me when they read that letter? I can't explain how surreal this is to me. And frightening. What if no doctor will accept me as a patient? Like I said, it's a small town. They probably all know each other.

I understand and I feel for you. A doctor patient relationship can be more intimate than a married couple. We will figure this out.

Thank you so much, kind doctor. And check your PM's once more, please.

ooops, dbl post.

originally posted by: tigertatzen

I agree. And I didn't even think about the fact that she takes meds for hypertension too so yeah, that makes it even worse...especially added in with the stress of what's happened most likely elevating her BP too and it was already high at the last visit.

and

It's probably even more upsetting to you given the fact that you've trusted this person for a number of years and now all of a sudden, you're being treated badly for no coherent reason.

Thank you for affirming what I've been feeling, tigertatzen.

I've been so down in the dumps about this, and angry, and hurt. Now that I think about it, I'm showing all the signs of grief- beginning with shock and disbelief- at the death of my doctor-patient relationship. And I just got my daily email from Simple Truths with a quote: "A Man is What He Thinks About All Day Long" and I realize that reading the supportive words from you and others in this thread are helping me reframe my situation, redefine it. And it helps.

Just wanted to say that.

a reply to: new_here

I truly understand you, and share your outrage and concerns. I work as a in home caregiver, and several clients I work with have severe pain issues. However, last year, rules changed, and now doctors can no longer offer pain management beyond a certain level. Beyond that, they have to send the person to a pain clinic if they require anything more than mild pain management. And these pain clinics are a joke, as well as a number of medical people there. All of my clients have been treated poorly, the attitude is always accusatory, and they are treated like criminals without cause or history.

None of the clients I work with, or have worked with in the past, have a history of substance abuse. All are disabled due to many severe medical conditions, and have legit reasons for being on their pain pain medication. Yet I have watched them be treated with the utmost suspicion without cause, and drug tests that had questionable results being used to accuse by staff whose basic knowledge also seemed lacking. Examples:

My first client, who suffered from neuropathy and severe spinal issues, went in a pain center to get some relief upon her primary doctors referral. According to the 5 minute urinalysis, she tested positive for methamphetamine, methadone, and Valium. The "pain specialist" informed her she would have to wait thirty days and retest, and would receive no pain narcotics, just half assed "pain management" advice such as meditating, exercise, and other pointless activities that were impossible for her, given that she was bedridden, had extensive nerve damage and required assistance in and out of bed. She had just been released from the hospital about 3 weeks prior, where she had been kept comatose and intubated due to a severe spinal infection. She had been given a number of meds during and after her hospital stay. As she had severe asthma (yes, she smoked), she was on two different kinds of inhalers.

Anyone who knows anything about drug testing knows that there are a number of medications, and combos of medications, that can produce false positive results for drugs. In fact, anytime I was administered a drug test (whether pre-employment or the routine ones in the army), they always documented whatever prescribed meds you were on, in case a positive result came up, so the person could be retested with more specific tests. It even happened to me on a pre-employment drug screen years ago, when I had tested positive for meth. The testing office looked at the form I filled out, and saw that I had been using a temp inhaler and prescription strength Actifed for a pretty severe case of bronchitis I had just recovered from a week prior. I showed them the bottles and inhaler, they retested, and sure enough, a second, more specific test showed that indeed, it was these substances, and not meth, that were in my system. In fact, both sudafed and actifed are used frequently by meth cooks as the starter compound for their drug lab, and are in a drug family chemically related to amphetamines.

My client's medical records were up there on computer file had the pain specialist looked. But it seems they don't do that anymore. My client wanted a retest, she was utterly shocked and felt there had to have been a mistake. The pain specialist refused, put the black mark on the file, and told us to come back in thirty days for a retest. My client was in pain, distraught, and felt like she was being tried or punished for something she did not do. The doctor told her there was nothing she could do. My client lost faith and trust in both the pain clinic and her medical team. She eventually moved down to Tacoma to live with her son because she needed someone with her at all times due to declining health and ability, and last I heard, her son had contacted a lawyer and a case was pending.

My other clients' stories I won't go into detail, but know that you are not alone in your disgust and distrust and feeling burned by this system. InverseLookingGlass was accurate in calling it medical totalitarianism. It is ridiculous. And you can thank the DEA, as well as their medical collaborators for this. The DEA now can override doctors. Once again, the DEA has overstepped its bounds and is behaving like the fascist bastards they truly are. And laughable, when you consider the DEA is responsible for most of the drug problems in this country to begin with. They use the excuse of "cracking down on pill mill doctors" to justify this B.S. Overreacting to a problem that is actually encouraged by the pharma industry.

Through the War on Drugs, the DEA and their L.E. partners have done more to violate the civil rights and destroy the lives of Americans than the CIA, NSA, DHS, FBI, and the Patriot Act combined. And I am yet to see either party or either side of the political spectrum willing to take on this abomination. And it won't happen until a big enough stink is created by enough people, and even then, iffy.

But don't give up. I encourage you to seek out a lawyer like others here have. I would also start looking into larger scale action as well. Find others who have had the same problems as you, and get together. It is sad you are being treated guilty without recourse to prove your innocence, and there are so many others like you. Perhaps if enough negative attention is brought to this, our "fearless leaders" will have no choice but to do something about it.

It's really the only option you have right now.

a reply to: new_here

You know, I am unsure of your story in terms of that we dont really know the facts...except from what you stated..so one sided.

However, why do people feel the need to come on to this board and cry about being hard done by....are these really third world problems? Well, not yet but maybe soon.

Hello ATS & OP,

Long time lurker and seeing this thread made me finally create an account. I completeky understand what you are going through.. A few years ago Ameritox reported to my Doc that I had tested positive for Opiates.. Unless I was drugged unknowingly the results of that test were impossible! I have many years with this Doc and he believed me when I flipped out over the results. It was insane to think that a huge company like Ameritox can return faulty results! About two months later I noticed new analysis forms and asked why they changed.. The nurse told me they kept getting reports that didn't make sense or were wrong.. Recently, the DEA raided my docs office in a surprise audit. Ever since going to get refill has felt like something one would experience in prison. It's insane! The one pharmacy I went to didn't register my script in the online database and I had to go home and get my pill bottle to prove I had filled the script! I can't imagine being in your shoes cause I know I'd be freaking out as well! Get a lawyer and sue everyone.

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

, she tested positive for methamphetamine, methadone, and Valium. The "pain specialist" informed her she would have to wait thirty days and retest, and would receive no pain narcotics, just half assed "pain management" advice such as meditating, exercise, and other pointless activities that were impossible for her, given that she was bedridden, had extensive nerve damage and required assistance in and out of bed. She had just been released from the hospital about 3 weeks prior, where she had been kept comatose and intubated due to a severe spinal infection. She had been given a number of meds during and after her hospital stay.

That is one horrendous story!!!
That establishment really is a PAIN Clinic. They leave people in pain, who have serious conditions. I wonder, could the attending doctors at the hospital not mitigate on her behalf, or even prescribe what she needed but could not get?

And as I said earlier in the thread, I am surprised the Big Pharma companies don't flex their muscles about this trend of denying medications based on faulty testing. After all, less dispensing of meds is less $$$ for them.

The whole multi-faceted dynamic of seemingly opposing entities is a puzzle I can't quite piece together in my head.

originally posted by: projectbane
a reply to: new_here

You know, I am unsure of your story in terms of that we dont really know the facts...except from what you stated..so one sided.

However, why do people feel the need to come on to this board and cry about being hard done by....are these really third world problems? Well, not yet but maybe soon.

Well I can't speak for everyone, but for my part, since I rarely make threads and since I was about to blow a gasket of outrage, confusion, and heart-break, I thought it was better to vent my feelings rather than have a stroke or scream until the neighbors called the cops. If it sounds whiny to you, well, ok. It has really helped me... that is all I can really say about it.

originally posted by: Lucklad56
Hello ATS & OP,

Long time lurker and seeing this thread made me finally create an account. I completeky understand what you are going through.. A few years ago Ameritox reported to my Doc that I had tested positive for Opiates.. Unless I was drugged unknowingly the results of that test were impossible! I have many years with this Doc and he believed me when I flipped out over the results. It was insane to think that a huge company like Ameritox can return faulty results! About two months later I noticed new analysis forms and asked why they changed.. The nurse told me they kept getting reports that didn't make sense or were wrong.. Recently, the DEA raided my docs office in a surprise audit. Ever since going to get refill has felt like something one would experience in prison. It's insane! The one pharmacy I went to didn't register my script in the online database and I had to go home and get my pill bottle to prove I had filled the script! I can't imagine being in your shoes cause I know I'd be freaking out as well! Get a lawyer and sue everyone.

If only my doc would have a conversation with me. I'm so glad yours did!

Pardon, but what do you mean by "new analysis forms" ...do you mean they dropped Ameritox for a new testing lab? (Also, I never filled out an analysis form. I just signed to verify it was my urine.)

Also, was the DEA audit related to 'reports that didn't make sense or were wrong' ?

a reply to: Lucklad56

Oh, also... I'm so humbled that I made you make an account, lol.
I mean... welcome to the nuthouse where people debate, rant, weave crazy conspiracies, but genuinely do care about each other!

a reply to: new_here

I doubt the doctors could have done anything. After all, the "pain specialist" had her complete medical records right there in front of her on the computer screen. In fact, she red off a list of meds that my client had taken or been given in the past 30 days. My client had also tested positive for Gabapentin, but when the specialist looked, she saw that it was on my client's prescribed list of meds. So she knew exactly what meds she was taking. She simply did not bother to take this into account, and didn't have to, it seems. The fact that my client had been in an induced coma was also known to the specialist, including whatever they gave to put her under. According to the specialist, anything from the hospital would have been out of her system. Which is complete B.S., as even minimally trained medical personnel know that the half-life/elimination of various drugs can vary from person to person, and is directly affected by factors such as physical health, liver and kidney function, metabolism, diet, activity level, other medications, body fat ratio, ect.

it's like actual medical science is being thrown out the door in favor of knee jerk, criminalizing policy without much grounding in reality.

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Lucklad56
Hello ATS & OP,

Long time lurker and seeing this thread made me finally create an account. I completeky understand what you are going through.. A few years ago Ameritox reported to my Doc that I had tested positive for Opiates.. Unless I was drugged unknowingly the results of that test were impossible! I have many years with this Doc and he believed me when I flipped out over the results. It was insane to think that a huge company like Ameritox can return faulty results! About two months later I noticed new analysis forms and asked why they changed.. The nurse told me they kept getting reports that didn't make sense or were wrong.. Recently, the DEA raided my docs office in a surprise audit. Ever since going to get refill has felt like something one would experience in prison. It's insane! The one pharmacy I went to didn't register my script in the online database and I had to go home and get my pill bottle to prove I had filled the script! I can't imagine being in your shoes cause I know I'd be freaking out as well! Get a lawyer and sue everyone.

If only my doc would have a conversation with me. I'm so glad yours did!

Pardon, but what do you mean by "new analysis forms" ...do you mean they dropped Ameritox for a new testing lab? (Also, I never filled out an analysis form. I just signed to verify it was my urine.)

Also, was the DEA audit related to 'reports that didn't make sense or were wrong' ?

Yes they dropped Ameritox.. I noticed new forms when signing to verify my urine.. I think the DEA came in because the laws or oversight has recently changed.. Not to sure.. But get this.. I went for my refill 4 days after Xmas this year.. The DEA came in the day before.. When I went in the nurse who handles the billings and what not, called me up ( nasty person).. She told me that my Doc was no longer accepting insurance ($25 copay and $25 for the test) for my medications! She said it would be $200 every month to be seen!! I told her I had no knowledge of this and only had $50 dollars cash on me.. She said sorry and kept repeating herself. I asked if I could speak with the Doc..My doc was in some kind of traffic jam, and was late, she said would speak to him when he came in.. I waited two hours for her to come back again to tell me that it was $200 dollars to see the doc.. I nearly lost it.. Explaining to her that I wouldn't get paid for two weeks and could face nasty side effects. She just looked at me with a not my problem look.. The doc then came up front by coincidence and I stuck my head in the window and asked him.. "Why after 8 years of coming here you won't even speak to me about a significant change in procedure!" He looked at me confused and said come in the back.. The nasty nurse had told him I was to early for my refills..When in fact I was a day overdue due to the Xmas holiday..He took my $50 bucks because I wasn't aware and told me next visit would be $200..Still sucks to pay $200 but I guess if Doctors are gonna risk their liscense, they are going to make you pay for it.. So take what you will from my situation.. Something has the doctors seriously cautious.. And you never know..you may be dealing with a nasty nurse or staff member! I feel for you!

Also,
Navydoc you're a good man..need more MDs like you!

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: Lucklad56

Oh, also... I'm so humbled that I made you make an account, lol.
I mean... welcome to the nuthouse where people debate, rant, weave crazy conspiracies, but genuinely do care about each other!

I had to! I know I'd be freaking out in your situation and also know the system is crazy! Hope my history has helped you!

a reply to: Lucklad56

She told me that my Doc was no longer accepting insurance ($25 copay and $25 for the test) for my medications! She said it would be $200 every month to be seen!!

Geez! Never heard of a doc suddenly not accepting insurance. I wonder if NavyDoc could shed some light on what could possibly make that transpire? Maybe the DEA uncovered an insurance billing scam?

Whatever, but that's not fair to you. You pay insurance premiums AND full pay doc visits? What's the point of insurance?

Also, are you saying you must provide a urine sample at each visit? That sounds like overkill...

originally posted by: Lucklad56

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: Lucklad56

Oh, also... I'm so humbled that I made you make an account, lol.
I mean... welcome to the nuthouse where people debate, rant, weave crazy conspiracies, but genuinely do care about each other!

I had to! I know I'd be freaking out in your situation and also know the system is crazy! Hope my history has helped you!

Well it's certainly made me feel 'not alone' in the urine-test mess.
But also scared the bajesus out of me that a doctor can suddenly not accept insurance. Cripes!

a reply to: Lucklad56

It just occured to me to ask... Can you not submit the claim to your insurance yourself to recoup what they would ordinarily pay towards your visit?

I say that, because years ago, some doctors' offices did not automatically file your insurance claim for you. You had to keep up with the receipts & paperwork and send it in on your own.

Just a thought.

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

it's like actual medical science is being thrown out the door in favor of knee jerk, criminalizing policy without much grounding in reality.

Exactly, in my years affiliated with public education, and its oversight and ridiculous mandates compounded annually, I coined a rant-phrase: "Legislators aren't Educators!!!"

And I can see the parallel in medicine, though I never really realized the scope of it until it began to really impact my life as a patient. I just can't think of a comparable catch-phrase other than, "Federals ain't Medicals!" or maybe (from a doctor's mouth) "Feds Get Off Our Meds!!!"

im going to my pain doc in an hour.
hope i dont run into any surprises