Consciousness vs Artificial Programming

a reply to: Peeple

Of course there are good people, also good and love in those less good, and wonderful loving concern for offspring and even altruism in nature. Good trapped in a hell zone, that should never be. Because if its just a free for all zone to see what you're made of collectively, I guess, good can't take the same steps as evil so evil would dominate down here and the existence of the majority proves that. This is an enormous fail, but thankfully it isn't written in stone. When they peer into matter, its extremely illusive particle, more of a wave. Since its not concrete, why put yourself in the mental construct of having to be here perpetually? You can be free of this horrible idea and send positive thoughts and solutions up and no thought or intention is ever wasted.

Since its not real, scientific research has displayed for quite some time now its not real, they even discovered the disturbance in their studies was that the background of what we're in is akin to a kind of printer pixels, that obviously the light erects into holography, when they were looking for the basic gravity field and structure. They didn't find that, they found what seemed to indicate pixels. Its all a picture basically. Like the poster I stood on in my meditation.

And being not real means you can change your mind, you don't have to be caught in this lower mind construct.

a reply to: Unity_99

First, thank you for your input and those links on the prior page.

From what I read of your posts, you seem ambiguous about this world - on the one hand that it is not real, but then you seem basically resigned that it is dominated by evil - and thus your admonition to find "higher" experiences. If am I misunderstanding you, please let me know.

However, I completely disagree with you that one needs to escape this world through higher experiences or even finding higher worlds, in order to truly love and even transform this apparently denser physical world.

When we truly recognize that this world is not so structured and materialistically-based as we have been conditioned to believe, can we not then fully participate in it (whatever it actually is altogether) with the whole body-mind, with real love and energy?

If Reality is indivisible Consciousness-Light, is Reality, of which all worlds are modifications of, not also completely present here? So why do we think we must seek elsewhere to discover Truth?

We are here, so discover Reality here and let this world be transformed to whatever degree it is, based on our full participation in this event. All searches elsewhere are just other modes of attention, and will never result in the actual realization of Reality Itself. All inward searches based on attention (the sense of separate self or "soul") are just more of the same - the avoidance of what is actually the case here and anywhere else.

Sure, subtle experiences are interesting, perhaps even transformative in terms of being a better, more open person - but are they actually the truth? Do they transcend the knot of self - attention itself? Do we actually have a direct understanding of Reality in Truth when we have such experiences or do we just reinforce a sense of separate self through some kind of "soul glorification"?

Anyway, our Reality is here, always - and love or not, that is the question, always - wherever we appear.

a reply to: Elementalist

I'm trying to follow your logic here only to find there isn't any. One premise never leads to the next one. It's called a non-sequitur.

Personally, learning about reality from someone who prefers sleep and hibernation seems backwards. Your explorations are made from your bed.

A consciousness or soul having a human experience? Haven't heard that one before. I have to wonder if you are speaking about reality or simply repeating someone else's mantra.

As you are someone so familiar with this thing called consciousness, what is consciousness and what are its properties?

originally posted by: Unity_99

Perception - The reality beyond matter

I watched this video and agree with much of it in terms of its description of the five senses and how they are part of developing the electronic configuration in the brain-mind that we tend to believe is reality itself.

The problem I have with this video is that they then go on to conjecture the existence of a soul or separate entity that is perceiving all such events, and that is our reality. It also seems to support the notion that the world is unreal so don't buy it!

This is part of what the op is getting at relative to the pitfalls of believing this world is strictly a simulation. Yes it is in terms of how the nervous system-brain-mind perceives it, but this does not necessarily imply the world does not exist and that we should ignore it, or escape it, or whatever.

It clearly exists, but the question is, what is its actual Reality? What is the body-mind's actual Reality? To think it doesn't exist or that we are separate from the body-mind, etc., is naive unless you actually have a most profound understanding of Reality Itself - and that is not touched by the above video, nor by most new age pontifications relative to non-dualism, inward mystical searches, etc.

What I am getting at, and have seen this tendency in myself as well, is to take such understanding that the world is not as we have been conditioned to believe, in order to justify some kind of repugnance toward it, and one's escape or detachment from it, or writing it off altogether - is an error.

This attitude shows that one is assuming separation from the indivisible Reality that all things, including our body-brain-minds and this world, are modifications of. In my experience, this detachment and reaction to the body-mind and the world is not the position in which to discover what is Reality or Truth.

originally posted by: rickymouse
The out of body does not have to be anything other than seeing through the eyes of another being, even a fly or mosquito. Linking with other minds. It doesn't even have to be anything other then memories created by another organism or person.

This reality is very real to us no matter if it is real or similated. You cut yourself and you bleed, you get shot in the chest and you will die.

This other being that is in control, sounds kind of like what is referred to as god. We could just be a microscopic part of a bigger organism, one we cannot identify from this speck in the universe. I am not restricted from believing there could be more to this than what science has already discovered. It could all be real and the earth could have a collective consiousness. There could be hundreds of things that we have not discovered yet that could better explain things than science has theorized or conditioned us to believe.

Our consciousness is guided by our conditioning, we have been conditioned since we were born. We were taught to see things as our parents and society sees them. We were taught to think like what they want us to think like and if you do not see things their way, they have a disease name for that. Much of our conditioning is necessary while other conditioning is just to make others rich or to give power to others to run things. But that is life, it varies from country to country, but basically all societies condition us. The conditioning also evolves faster than we can adapt to it now, it wasn't nearly as stressful fifty years ago.

What "does not" and what IS, are completely different. One is your exercise of thought the other is what you ARE. One must speak from experience of these things, or their input becomes second hand at best.

In out of body state, I have seen my body, and not the one laying restful on the bed, the one that is seeing it (with the mind eye), the Astral form. Mainly, I saw a form, of myself, which was just light, but what is light? And not fire light. . that belongs to the external universe, Internal Light.

Both states are real, but so far in my young life, I have come to a point, to belive the one space was created by the other, some how. Or both sides of the same coin so to speak, spiraling in opposite drections (parallels) from the original source, but interconnected to source, not separate.

In Astral or dream, you are only limited to your own limits and perception of. Be limitless in your thought and heart, and create for you, the experience you want. The space is there, your in a conscious vehicle in both states, you are the consciousness driving, you can venture the entire paralell space freely, unless you have limits/obstructions.

In terms of conditioning, speak for yourself sir. I was conditioned as a child but my internal guided me to deprogram the false information , which took years. I started this "deprogramming" when I was in high school, and since, the internal has spiraled immensely at times.

Consciousness can be guided by conditioning if one allows it too and remains in lower states of mind and body.
A true conscious being, is guided by the internal heart and mind, and paralell forces. If you think your being is driven by something else's conditioning, then you have much work to do, my friend.

As I said, spend more time with self and nature then these plastic devices and false concepts of others intending to condition you.. then, your internal nature will be reestablished within you, and thus you will know thyself.

Appreciate your input on ATS friend, and your comment here, be well

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Elementalist

I'm trying to follow your logic here only to find there isn't any. One premise never leads to the next one. It's called a non-sequitur.

Personally, learning about reality from someone who prefers sleep and hibernation seems backwards. Your explorations are made from your bed.

A consciousness or soul having a human experience? Haven't heard that one before. I have to wonder if you are speaking about reality or simply repeating someone else's mantra.

As you are someone so familiar with this thing called consciousness, what is consciousness and what are its properties?

Most of your posts I've read are mockery of others or members here in terms of those trying to discover self and their existence within the realities.

Your trying to follow someone else's logic; your not following your heart your own experinces and obviously not your own logic.

Experiences from my bed?

I have a pretty busy life, I run a technology store in a very dense and busy city. I have friends in corporate canada, oil/energy industry, Olympic medalists, authors, business owners etc. . I'm not some lazy person spewing # out of my mouth.

I have a life to balance in society, and internally, with myself.
Your very judgmentmental, yet know nothing about me or what I do, or experience in either paralell space. What does that say about yourself?

You talk a lot of anti spirit on these boards; you obviously lack experience of internal self and this reality you cling on too so dearly. . What is giving you the means to talk about what you do not know, or say demeaning things to people you do not know?

I'm not here to teach you reality, suck in the program then and enjoy your short life. I'm trying to give people keys and hints to the other side of themselves, they have been disconnected from.

You are obviously not seriously here to learn, grow or experience. Your here to be ignorant, demean, and act as an obstruction to those who take this seriously and live by EXPERIENCE.

Deny ignorance.

a reply to: Elementalist

Deny ignorance.

I'm only trying to help you here. In philosophy we follow arguments and evidence where they lead us. Yours lead nowhere. I wish to see them lead somewhere. I could care less about your day to day life.

You've stated explicitly to myself I am not fit to post nor do I belong in the Philosophy and Metaphysics forum until I open my third eye and have non-physical experiences. Naturally, I was excited to see you started your own thread, so that I may finally view some real philosophy and metaphysics, and your widom in action. Much to my disappointment I cannot find anything of the sort.

You stated consciousness is self-awareness. Then shortly after, a being is consciousness. Shortly after that, consciousness is seen as intelligence. But that's like saying someone has a sense of humour because they tell a lot of jokes. Then why do they tell a lot of jokes? Because they have a sense of humour. You're using two different words to say the same thing. It doesn't answer the question of what consciousness is, and I'm only guessing that it is because you do not know what it is, while at the exact same time postulating it everywhere and in everything. In metaphysics, this is the wrong way to go about things.

a reply to: Elementalist

You were right when you said "Consciousness can be guided by conditioning" I actually should have worded it that way instead of saying is guided. The sad truth is that many are guided by what they are taught. But some of the conditioning is good for society and exactly what should be guided is controversial because some people take advantages of others and misuse or misapply anything they can to accomplish this.

I have had two out of body experiences where I was hovering above my head. The last time I was in a restaurant while recovering from a concussion and I saw the top of my bald head. The weird thing is I heard me talking in a slow voice but that was not me running my body. I looked around and when I went in I had seen someone I know and immediately turned and said hi to this person. Now I spent a while trying to analyze that and it does not make sense, I was asked how I knew that person was there, and from the location of that person, I could have seen exactly what I saw. I may have been somehow linked to the other person's consciousness. That is about the only solution that makes sense.

I know there is a lot more going on in reality than we are being allowed to know. I think that there are people who want to control us and they know how to do it somehow, whether they are aware of it or not.

I have tried to understand what I had experienced there, but it can't be explained.

a reply to: Unity_99

I do not belive this universe is separate from self.

Is the fish separate from the sea?

Currently my model of understsnding; the universal creation, is a product of whole-collective-consciousness, that animates it, and experiences the creation itself, like a playground.

The universe is beautiful, and for consciousness experiencing it, has limitless experiences which are manifestations of our highest maximum we chose to "branch" from to experience facets of our totality.

Many 'parts' of this highest maximum (source/collective consciousness) have willingly came into the creation to experience it.

I belive our experience has been hijacked some how, and this is why most of the collective, do not understand what is really going on. . This part, I'm still trying to experience to understand it. But it does seem so, and it's just a "feeling" I get, something more sinister has tricked us into this universe.. and we forget so.

Yet, no doubt I have experienced providence and intervention of several occasions, synchronicities and the reality "aligning" itself for me, in many forms. Such experiences of the internal spiraling out, I refered too in the previous post.

I love the universe, I love my self, I love how expansive and amazing both parallel spaces seem to be. A lot of it, is governed by our own perception of what we are experiencing, as randy hinted too, the conditioning we have been going through molds our perception and experiences as they unfold.

I do not see evil completely governing our reality; it's a perception, yet we are spiraled away from the source which our consciousness branched from, and thus, we have a narrow understsnding, not to say it cannot be expanded and transcended.

There is an origin of which we are of, within this origin/source is the collective consciousness and power that animates and creates the universal structure and innerverse (paralell universe) we are living and experiencing.

It's a beautiful thing, yet seems twisted. . creation and consciousness still fascinates me ♡

a reply to: Elementalist

Just a few problems:
1. you have to embrace at least the possibility there is more than one thing at the same time and they are all equally true. The fish is a finite entity, the ocean is a larger fish containing but also without fishes existing entity, the world is a fish and ocean containing entity, but also exists without these. Got it?
2. conscience is the mere spark of what makes a thing a living thing, plants are conscience, or not, because they respond to their environmental influences on a "psychic" level, but you don't know if they are aware of them being "psychic". The question still is, does conscience imply awareness? You can't possibly know that. Why? Nobody does, nobody ever spoke to a plant and was able to translate the answer.
3. You are metaphiscally speaking still stuck in first grade: "evil", really? Want a Lolly?
And that is an insult, because Les Misanthrope is the best philosopher ATS has. So you are a 1st grader, calling the school principal an idiot, go and learn to read, before you write.

a reply to: Peeple

I honestly don't know what your going on about.

Conscience and Consciousness are two different things.

Stick with the subject at hand.

Best philosopher on ats? Cool go post in his/her threads

I'll take that "Lolly" though please

I get where you are coming from.

This is very disheartening to me; as one who has dream walked, Astral traveled remote viewed and a plethora of of experiences while out of body, consciously.

I have experienced "dream time"; "astral projected"; "channelled"; "remote writing" since a kid. I feel you. I'm not really a fan of remote viewing tho, not much to gain from the experience when compared to the others, IMO.

Let's start destruction this fantastic idea; it would assume that our universe is nothing less, nothing more then an artifical structure built or created by a more advanced being(s).

All is a construct of mind. The "upper spiritual consciousness" and "the lower spiritual consciousness," project reality (physicality - temporal realm) into the "human consciousness".

I read the above quote as a signpost not to be climbed.

Would assume gravity is nothing but a program. Biology, chemistry, physics and all the natures that create the universe and within, are just mere programs of an artificial intelligence.

The laws of the universe are immutable and fixed. They are just mere programs of a higher aspect of the human consciousness (Spiritual consciousness consisting of a higher spiritual consciousness and lower spiritual consciousness). It allows for "maya" to be experienced as a solid. Just like when we dream at night. The only difference is the laws of physicality can be bent in the dream world. Yet, the human consciousness programming still projects along those laws of physicality during dream time despite how magical the dream appears. This is why flying dreams appeal to many (while dreaming!) because it breaks the laws of physicality and mental conditioning that is still present within dream time.

These programs would be set in place by an advanced mind, which is conscious and aware of what it is doing, before it's does (thought before action).

Yes, although we have freewill, many don't exercise it because they confuse it with "freedom". Many are unaware that most of their waking hours they are on auto-pilot. This is why meditation and remaining present is key a few minutes a day. The higher and lower spiritual consciousness (Spirit) is aware at all times.

The human consciousness (mind) is aware a split second before the burn on the hand is felt...and sends communication to the body via the nervous system. This pattern is a microcosm of how our higher consciousness is always in communication and acting as a whole universal system or body through the human consciousness. In other words; there is no separation.

Let's for now call the higher and lower spiritual consciousness "the two witnesses..." of the human condition (avatar).

We as humans, are conscious of our experience in the body (via 5 sense signals), as well as within the dream/Astral/paralell space.

My experiences of astral "projection" showed me that in the astral realms (domains/dimensions of my mind); the imagination is the prime faculty for perception --- not the five senses. Also, in this realm I have 360 degree simultaneous vision (it can only be experienced to be understood which you must surely be aware of) and space (as in near or far) is simply a projection of mind. It is place where thoughts (mental constructs) become objectified instantly. Like inception...

For this entire simulation to have truth, the projection then, comes from inside us, within the parallel space that the bodies 5 senses cannot receive signals of.

Yes, imagination is the spiritual faculty of perception. Life is nothing but the soul's imagination.

You CAN experience your "other side", your consciousness is there, but the bridge is worn out and need rebuilding so to speak. I have keys for anyone interested, U2U.

Your consciousness is "there...?"

Post them here.

I'm very curious now.

The designs of the body an mind, soul, or whatever you wanna call would probably be more complicated then artificial intelligence, since we only know so much about how biochemistry, and the works are still not fully explained, as compared to programming, circuits as well hydraulics and pnuematics. Artificial Intelligence would be a simulated version of consciousness, although not as complex as a complicated organism, but could easily dwarf the capabilities, feats like being able to evolve much more then humans did in a shorter amount time, or being physical superior in general organism depends on the build of its shell, an could easily transfer to a new one.

Now if there was a line that can be crossed, or mixture between organic and artificial whether its organics trying to be more technological through augmentation, or where an A.I would like to know more as to why's and/or picks up on traits like moving to imagination or ideas rather then just crunching numbers and abstract logic.

The only thing that i know to be certain is that :

1) - No one here including me or you really KNOWS anything about the truth of this reality. We just have opinions and our points of view. You MAY know more once you die. You MAY not...

2) - Its incredibly foolish and naive to take an ultimate stance on anything in life. Once you close your mind to a possibility other than the one you currently have your lessen yourself intellectually is how i feel. Take that or leave it, I don't care but I see many absolute statements here and have made some myself...but i do often reflect on and re ananlyze my thoughts and statements based on new information i come across and I am certain many people here and elsewhere do not.

To me the important question is not really is this a simulation of somekind...what does that even matter? You're here and have only 3 doors in which to leave ( Natural death, suicide, or something else killing you including people or disease)

There is clearly a spiritual aspect where your ( in my opinion ) nonphyscial conciousness is interfacing with a physical hardware aka the body and that in my opinion fits the description of a simulation just like a videogame....The important questions to me regarding this plane of conciousness are:

1- What is the purpose of my being here?
2- Where do I go after here?
3 -What levels of control can i attain here?
4 -Do my choices affect where I end up next ?
5 - Do my choices have any meaningful impact on this reality? Am I shaping this reality ?

I thinks its a bit foolish to think someone else is controlling you like a character in a videogame and you have no free will.

Is it a possibility? Sure...

Can my choices be influenced to a degree by external forces ? Sure it known to be possible, but the " This is a simulation and ETs are controlling everything you do" is just downright lazy , dishonest thinking and thats my current stance until something better than a bloated empty statemet like that is produced.

So just

a reply to: wyrmboy12

Check out what you just wrote here.

The only thing that i know to be certain is that :

1) - No one here including me or you really KNOWS anything about the truth of this reality. We just have opinions and our points of view. You MAY know more once you die. You MAY not...

2) - Its incredibly foolish and naive to take an ultimate stance on anything in life. Once you close your mind to a possibility other than the one you currently have your lessen yourself intellectually is how i feel. Take that or leave it, I don't care but I see many absolute statements here and have made some myself...but i do often reflect on and re ananlyze my thoughts and statements based on new information i come across and I am certain many people here and elsewhere do not.

Contradictions like this belong in comedy.

Does copper conduct electricity? Yes, it appears that it does. It seems I do know a little something about the truth of this reality. Apparently so do you, namely, that no one knows anything about the truth of this reality—except of course for yourself and what you know for certain. The problem is, what you are certain about is wrong, for you have no answers to our questions, and thus you are unable to know if they are right or wrong.

Myself, I do not like this sort of feigned wisdom from agnostics, where they try to sell their fence-sitting as wisdom, yet they contradict themselves as soon as they open their mouths. People will speculate about reality, and no, they will not stop.

a reply to: bb23108

This is a holographic experience to learn, or another way of putting it, there is higher and lower mind constructs and people seem to move up and down for a time, until they blossom fully, as consciousness must perfect eternally, and we're infinite parts of infinity. The world is not real, yet it is concrete as well in a kind of paradox.

Everyone has to escape it, because bodies are hitting the ground and this is unbelievably insane, people need positive environments to grow, and remember that, remember much better places or existence than here. Anyone who thinks its suitable to learn or have their children subjected to this brutality and ritual sacrifice and the russian roulette of the karmic wheel and the trap they have here for souls, or at least they're trying to have, because think that is also a matter of mind, has stockholm syndrome. Its not psychologically healthy to think this is OK.

Freeing everyone you love and interceding for everyone to remember and get back on mission, and interceding that the miracles and long shots happen for every person, is all that matters here, reaching higher mind and out, and getting as many others as you can. The prime directive is to free this planet, that means everyone on it.

a reply to: Elementalist

It appears you have decided what is, and what is not possible.

Again, this appears in every stupid new age, old age text as being somehow all God's work.

You completely limit the entirety of Creation by suggesting an all knowing being is in control of everything, and you insult Creation really, by thinking someone could not have Created this , "after" as it were, any "original" form of life.

The time is coming, where we can rip off the blinders these astral travelers have, and show them that far more complex things exist, at far lower levels than you imagine.

Again, a small child untrained , not told anything but left to FULLY explore the situation would find that you , and all who are like you, are so adamantly dead wrong about this place.

The highest avatar minds, will not even speak of reality, for fear of popping the balloon they have sworn to keep billowing, lest the souls they have be sent into an even deeper nothingness than they have now.

Too bad, we are blowing the lid off of everything, for the good of all, and be damned the deluded who wish to believe something "good" was EVER in control.

a reply to: Peeple

Yes, the problem is, it is NOT a simulation, but a real Creation exercise, one that has countless goals in mind, all of which have been effectively sabotaged.

Bridging the gap between physical reality, and non physical is possible, and once this was realized, it has been an all out war to maintain the energy givers, and not let the mission complete.

Beings exist now, who could change the Universe, but most of them are as lost in the exercise as everyone else, and they are just purely AFRAID to step it up to a new level.

They have no idea in the Universe what REAL astral travelling could be.

a reply to: Unity_99

I can see the "simulation" has affected you as well, they really do completely control most of us to believe LOVE governs all this, and that the higher selves actually know what to do, and have a plan.

I have seen farther, broken past the delusions and realize things are more messed up on the OTHER side than here.

Mark my words however you want, what happens HERE is now more important than ANYWHERE.

a reply to: Elementalist



Now please try to spell consciousness without conscience and while doing so, think about how the fish can't live without the ocean and maybe you'll understand what i am trying to say.



a reply to: ParasuvO
Real Astral Travelling? That's a paradox, i hope you know? The hole point is, there is the realm of the mind, imagination and thinking, there is the physical reality and then the world of emotions, where thinking and biological processes intersect. You can't have real experiences in the imaginery world, because they are unaccountable, not measurable and not touchable. You can have imaginery experiences in reality, but that's called schizophrenia and not measurable, accountable and touchable, by anyone else but you, because it is your imagination #ing up your reality perception, mostly because of an emotional disfunction.