NLBS #48: The United States Is Not, And Never Was, A Christian Nation

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I don't know what that has to do with a non-interfering deity giving people inalienable rights.

It is recognising that each citizen has the right to determine their own purpose and future and is not subject to "birth right ...Regarding power

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Exactly. It's like a last ditch effort for them to try and assert dominance again and to them losing authority over others and being left to their own is seen as being persecuted which is not the case at all. What's really happening is simply the removal of a few of the barbs which they've stuck into the state already. But nobody is saying they need to stop doing what they do on their own. Nobody is taking away their church. But it's come time to clean house a bit and remove the crossover where they've already infiltrated the secular side of things.

IMO it's for their own good too even though they don't see it that way because they feel safer being in control. But the whole idea of separation of church and state and the protections which must be in place equally for all religions or non-religion won't work with any one religion in control.

But they don't really want to be left alone to worship as they want. They want to be the authority and rule as they see fit. They're no different than any other Religious Order who also wants to rule over the earth or any other Non-Religious order who wants that for themselves. They're all the same and the rest of us need to be careful when dealing with any and all of them.

a reply to: pilgrimOmega


Maybe something like this?

www1.american.edu...

exopolitics.org...

originally posted by: radarloveguy
a reply to: seagull

en.wikipedia.org...

Ask Hilary Clinton where she was on the 15/6/1994.

You won't your head is in the sand .

She was busy explaining to the Living God , how she had to steal
from Him , to prop up her cause .

Of course she knew about shoemaker /levy 9 , in 1991 ,
three years ahead of your lying scientists , because your possessed government has
a video tape of the BIG GUY , launching said comet in your direction ....,because of said fraud .

I got nothin'....

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I don't know what that has to do with a non-interfering deity giving people inalienable rights.

It is recognising that each citizen has the right to determine their own purpose and future and is not subject to "birth right ...Regarding power

Makes sense.
Thanks Artist.

You all may want to look the preambles of the states constitutions. I do beleive that all 50 of them mention God, Almighty God ect.

Alabama, 1865, Preamble

We, the people of the State of Alabama... invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following constitution...

Alaska, 1959, Preamble

We the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land... do ordain and establish this constitution for the State of Alaska.

Arizona, 1911, Preamble

We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution.

Arkansas, 1874, Preamble

We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government, for our civil and religious liberty... do ordain and establish this Constitution.

California, 1849, Preamble

We, the people of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom in order to secure its blessings, do establish this Constitution.

Colorado, 1876, Preamble

We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe... do ordain and establish this constitution for the "State of Colorado."

Connecticut, 1818, Preamble

The people of Connecticut acknowledging with gratitude, the good providence of God, in having permitted them to enjoy a free government; do... ordain and establish the following constitution and form of civil government.

Delaware, 1897, Preamble

Through Divine goodness, all men have by nature the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences....

Florida, 1885, Preamble

We, the people of the State of Florida, being grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty... do ordain and establish this constitution.

Georgia, 1777, Preamble

...we the people of Georgia, relying upon the protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

Hawaii, 1959, Preamble

We, the people of Hawaii, grateful for Divine Guidance... do hereby ordain and establish this constitution for the State of Hawaii.

Idaho, 1890, Preamble

We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and promote our common welfare do establish this Constitution.

Illinois, 1848 Preamble

We, the people of the State of Illinois-grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He has permitted us to enjoy and seeking His blessing upon our endeavors... do ordain and establish this Constitution for the State of Illinois.

Indiana, 1851, Preamble

...We, the people of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to choose our own form of government, do ordain this Constitution.

Iowa, 1846, Preamble

We, the people of the State of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuance of those blessings, do ordain and establish a free and independent government...

Kansas, 1859, Preamble

We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges, in order to insure the full enjoyment of our rights as American citizens, do ordain and establish this constitution of the State of Kansas...

www.hismenrevealed.com...
a reply to: theNLBS

originally posted by: JimNasium
a reply to: pilgrimOmega


Maybe something like this?

www1.american.edu...

exopolitics.org...

...ok. help me connect this to shoemaker levy and a videotape of god spitballing it at our solar system?

originally posted by: guitarplayer
You all may want to look the preambles of the states constitutions. I do beleive that all 50 of them mention God, Almighty God ect.

a reply to: theNLBS

But "God" or "Creator" or "Almighty God" are generic terms. We already know they believed in some higher power but they were smart men who knew they didn't want "Religion" to mix with Government.

What if they meant Zeus or Baal or Vishnu when they said "God"??? Would you be still be trying to mix that into the rule of law then???

Besides, I believe a few of them were Masons were they not??? They believe in a Great Architect. A Universe Creator of some kind. They could very well of been thinking of that when saying God. Which is probably the reason they used the generic term in the first place. So it would apply to anyone in any way they wanted it to.

a reply to: theNLBS

OMG! (lol, pun intended)...

THANK YOU!!!!

originally posted by: seagull
This should be an interesting thread...

The founding fathers were, in large part, deists. As to whether that was a majority, I don't know. Given how the Constitution is worded, not to mention the Declaration of Independence, their will dominated.

de·ism
ˈdēizəm,ˈdāizəm/Submit
noun
belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.

They also strongly, obviously, believed in the separation of Church and State.

Their beliefs reflect mine very strongly, so I suppose that makes me a deist. So, something in common with Ben Franklin? How cool is that??

Given that the U.S. is a very religious nation, I'm not sure how one can get away from religious influences in Govt.? For better or for worse, it's going to happen.

Well put, some individual states actually were church states at the inception and the purpose of the doctrine of separation was intended to be mutually beneficial as I understand it.

While I certainly agree that religious laws (or customs) have no place in civil society, it can't be said that the predominant intellectual culture was not closely associated with deism and, culturally, Christian enlightened.

One of the great seal designs was made by Benjamin Franklin.

First Committee

The first committee consisted of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams. While they were three of the five primary authors of the Declaration of Independence, they had little experience in heraldry and sought the help of Pierre Eugene du Simitiere, an artist living in Philadelphia who would later also design the state seals of Delaware and New Jersey and start a museum of the Revolutionary War. Each of these men proposed a design for the seal.

Franklin chose an allegorical scene from Exodus, described in his notes as "Moses standing on the Shore, and extending his Hand over the Sea, thereby causing the same to overwhelm Pharaoh who is sitting in an open Chariot, a Crown on his Head and a Sword in his Hand. Rays from a Pillar of Fire in the Clouds reaching to Moses, to express that he acts by Command of the Deity." Motto, "Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God." Jefferson suggested a depiction of the Children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night for the front of the seal; and Hengest and Horsa, the two brothers who were the legendary leaders of the first Anglo-Saxon settlers in Britain, for the reverse side of the seal. Adams chose a painting known as the "Judgment of Hercules" where the young Hercules must choose to travel either on the flowery path of self-indulgence or the rugged, more difficult, uphill path of duty to others and honor to himself.

Interpretation of the first committee's seal proposal, made by Benson Lossing in 1856.

Oregon ftw!

1857 Preamble:

"We the people of the State of Oregon to the end that Justice be established, order maintained, and liberty perpetuated, do ordain this Constitution."

Article I Section 2:
"All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences."

I only stated that the preambles to the states mention God. To say that they were not referencing the
God of the bible is being disingenuous and deigning basic religious statements.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: guitarplayer
You all may want to look the preambles of the states constitutions. I do beleive that all 50 of them mention God, Almighty God ect.

a reply to: theNLBS

But "God" or "Creator" or "Almighty God" are generic terms. We already know they believed in some higher power but they were smart men who knew they didn't want "Religion" to mix with Government.

What if they meant Zeus or Baal or Vishnu when they said "God"??? Would you be still be trying to mix that into the rule of law then???

Besides, I believe a few of them were Masons were they not??? They believe in a Great Architect. A Universe Creator of some kind. They could very well of been thinking of that when saying God. Which is probably the reason they used the generic term in the first place. So it would apply to anyone in any way they wanted it to.

a reply to: guitarplayer

No, it's not. If they wanted to say "Jesus" or "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" then they would have said it. They didn't.

Once again. How many of the original founding fathers were Freemasons???

Answer that and it may help.

originally posted by: guitarplayer
You all may want to look the preambles of the states constitutions. I do beleive that all 50 of them mention God, Almighty God ect...

It seems as though you didn't actually watch the video, where we showed how the US Senate voted unanimously on wording that confirmed the US was not founded on the Christian religion, and was not a Christian nation.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

off topic , but self explanatory .

God exists , your govt. has irrefutable proof .

Hilary's up to her neck in it.

.... that's why your country is now supercrumbly....

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic
From your posted source:

A main threat atheists pose to society, “in addition to problems with attaining a complete understanding of moral principles,” (Lorenzo, 253) comes from their disbelief in an afterlife, namely the lack of later punishment for earthly blunders. Without the fear of eternal damnation, atheists are “threats to social order and state security” (Lorenzo, 258). This perception is a direct result of the importance Locke put on the individual experience. He fervently articulates the lack of innate morals and while he allows for a certain understanding of right and wrong to be absorbed through the use of our senses, true morality comes from what we are taught; but it is not enough to learn about morality. Just as incentive is necessary for man to enter into society, there must be incentive to act within moral bounds; atheists lack this incentive.

I totally agree. With your post. NOT with this jackwad Locke.

Have there ever been any efforts to remove,

"In God We Trust" off our money?

Or,

"...under God," removed from the Pledge of Allegiance?

originally posted by: radarloveguy
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

off topic , but self explanatory .

God exists , your govt. has irrefutable proof .

Hilary's up to her neck in it.

.... that's why your country is now supercrumbly....

The cryptic ramblings are most unwelcome.

Can you just elaborate on what you are talking about.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
Have there ever been any efforts to remove,

"In God We Trust" off our money?

Or,

"...under God," removed from the Pledge of Allegiance?

There is a few petitions on Gov.com.

Last I checked they had a decent amount of signatures.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Well it certainly isn't now.

Right now the US is the most
Christophobic
nation that isn't predominately Muslim.

I find that the Christians themselves are the biggest enemy towards Christianity, all of them claiming they are not religious whilst the rest are.

Seems like a lot of them are on the trains too freedom, and just do not know it yet.