Why would God make a forbidden fruit even though he knew that it would be eaten?

originally posted by: Joshuwa
a reply to: Ghost147

Point. Son of man. Sat at the "throne of God" Two people did not create the human race. Its happening now. Your all talking about Now events. The beast has a mark in his forehead. And his right hand. Could have explained. The anti christ is from a island. Eden is in hawaii silly. Look up what zoroaster wrote about "paradise" Seven heads is seven hills. Yes it is. Lucifer is from. "The heights" Yes i am. I will put enmity between the woman and her seed and bruise the heel. Correct. Lucifer and christ are one in the same. Its Joshua not Yeshua. Not Yehushua. Not Yehushua. Not isa. Not pbuh. No Nibiru. No Aliens. No crucifixion. Could explain how hieghtened consciousness can comminicate with the internet. Could explain how this is all happening now. Could explain how people are being misled to think we are Gods. Could tell you what "God" looks like. Could tell you how christ consciousness is literally what "Alpha/christ/Horus.Ect. shows you during "No one goes to the father without knowledge of his son" How your all being tricked with this new age spiritual silliness. Can explain why the so called illuminati worship the "Goat" Can explain Nephelim. Wanted to share how time is a illusion. Explain how ive watched people start sentences. And have someone else finish them. How nobody acts the same around me anymore. If anyone cares. Earasunshine gmail I was told directly by "The source" You know. That circle of consciousness that has been found by people. Quantum math/physics. That no one has done what i have in a long time. All the links i shared. Is writing this. Ive almost lost my mind. Having "Omnipresence" consciousness. And having "Truth" In a world like this is a bit difficult. I do not Judge you. But you Judge me. No one goes to the father unless the father chose him. Correct? His will not mine. Ive suffered a extreme amount of pain for a long time. Most could not handle this. Want some truth. I see many stories online about the annunaki. Enki is king of kings. Enki is Lucifer. Nibiru is lucifer. The only round red object your world will ever see is the blood moons. Figure it out. I have the gift of insight. Jordan Maxwell is right. Nobody wants truth. Adam is christ is lucifer is the snake. The woman and her seed will remain a mystery. Its already in movies.On alex jones show. Hellboy likes cats. Katty perry. Her ET song. "Different dna" You think is aliens. No. See God He "puts a mark in your forehead" And it slows down your aging process. Buddy. I AM the rabbit hole. I was told to go on foot. Like all prophets. Which i will. Son of man. Son of perdition. The beast. Lucifer.Christ. Yeshua Jehovah. Enki Quetzalcotl All the same.

Oh, look at that, made it into one giant gramatical-error-filled paragraph for you. Doesn't it look much better?

Now, lets go beyond how ridiculously necessary placing 3 spaces between third word is and just assume you dont regularly speak the english language.

Even in other languages, you touch up on so many points that have no relation it still doesn't make any sense. I'm just going to go ahead and report you for spamming nonsense and bringing threads far beyond off topic.

a reply to: ketsuko

He wants worshippers who choose to worship Him.

And so, in order that He may receive 'voluntary' worship, the world must groan for aeons under an almost intolerable burden of suffering and misery, all living beings must suffer and die and intelligent creatures must live in perpetual fear of an afterlife of even greater horror, protracted through eternity -- unless, of course, they bow down and worship Him.

How is this morally excusable?

In what way can such worship be described as voluntary?

What kind of example does God set His creatures by making such demands?

tHe "fruit" is just symbolism for knowledge of evil. Example: learning how to make weapons to murder.

Think of it this way... most of you have played video games right? You put the video game character in dangerous situations don't you? Why? He might get hurt? He might get killed? He might suffer? He might almost lose his life unless you find that magic elixir.

This life on Earth is like that. Our purpose here is to fulfill God's mission. If you follow Him and become obedient you will have a place with Him when your mission is complete.

a reply to: Ghost147

You think linear. You can't put God in a box like that. We have free will. God knows your heart so He know what you will choose. Because He knows the end of the story. He wrote the book. The characters in the book [you, me and everyone else] don't even realize that they are just characters in a story.If God wants to rewrite the story I suppose He can. But I'm not certain because I'm not God.

The hardest part for me after becoming a follower was realizing that I will never know the answers to all of the questions. The Bible doesn't have all the answers. It even talks about the mysteries. I have to accept that God has a reason for everything for the good of His story.

a reply to: Ghost147

Woah, you have it wrong. You don't go to hell for killing people or any other sin. If that was the case we would all be going to hell. That is the misconception of so many. I use to think that too until I became a follower.

Here is the deal... when you decide to become a follower then you are marked with the seal of God. You will continue to sin because you are human. We all sin (Go against the will of God). Look at the bible as more of an instruction book instead of a rule book. If you follow the instructions you will have a much more fulfilling life. You don't have to follow it but your life will be much more complicated.

Think of it as going to ikea and buying some massive furniture piece. If you don't follow the instructions your furniture is going to turn out crappy. if you would just follow the instructions things would be much easier.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

You think that because you have a human mind. You won't be able to understand God's way because humans don't have the capacity to understand. God tried to explain thing as simply as He could in the Bible. But it's about the same as an adult trying to explain physics to a child. The child just doesn't have the brain power to understand it. No matter how hard the child tries to think about it they will never understand. So the adult tells the child simple stories that are so simple it would never truly explain the details of physics because it would just confuse the child. Do you follow me?

a reply to: LOSTinAMERICA

Either the kid is trying to learn what will happen or he has an evil heart.

originally posted by: stellawayten
a reply to: Ghost147

You think linear. You can't put God in a box like that. We have free will. God knows your heart so He know what you will choose. Because He knows the end of the story. He wrote the book. The characters in the book [you, me and everyone else] don't even realize that they are just characters in a story.If God wants to rewrite the story I suppose He can. But I'm not certain because I'm not God.

The hardest part for me after becoming a follower was realizing that I will never know the answers to all of the questions. The Bible doesn't have all the answers. It even talks about the mysteries. I have to accept that God has a reason for everything for the good of His story.

No calamity befalls on the earth or in yourselves but is inscribed in the Book of Decrees, before We bring it into existence. Verily, that is easy for Allah. In order that you may not be sad over matters that you fail to get, nor rejoice because of that which has been given to you. And Allah likes not prideful boasters.- Surah 57 verse 22-23

Let me ask you this. Why would he create Satan if he knew Satan was going to be the individual he is? Conversely, why would he make a forbidden fruit even though he knew for a fact that it would be eaten anyway?

The entire concept is ridiculous, and the only conclusion would be that God intentionally let it all happen whilst doing nothing at all to refrain it from becoming what it did. Therefor it was his plan in the first place for the fruit to be eaten, all the people to suffer and die throughout the years, so on and so forth.

The Cristian God is an Evil one.

...sounds pretty logical to me. but of course some people will feel the need to post videos and scripture explaining why its all our fault. shaming is a typical device among psychopaths.

a reply to: ketsuko

He wants worshippers who choose to worship Him. He can't have that without allowing a choice between His way and the other way. If His way is good, then He can't have a clear contrast to that way without its opposite as advocated by Satan.

If the Christian Bible is literally true, then choice does not exist.

Is God omniscient? Yes.

Did God know, prior to creating the Earth, that humans would fall from grace?

God is omniscient, so yes.

If God is omniscient, and knew prior to creation that humans would fall from grace, and that by creating everything, he set into motion the machinations that would lead to to Adam and Eve eating the fruit--then it can be reasonably deduced that we have no freewill.

For freewill to exist, God can't be omniscient.

ETA: if God is omniscient, 'testing' humans becomes a moot point because he already knows the outcome. A non-omniscient being has to do 'tests'. So, if God has to test us, that means he doesn't know the outcome, which means he is not omniscient, which means he is not a god.

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: ketsuko

He wants worshippers who choose to worship Him. He can't have that without allowing a choice between His way and the other way. If His way is good, then He can't have a clear contrast to that way without its opposite as advocated by Satan.

If the Christian Bible is literally true, then choice does not exist.

Is God omniscient? Yes.

Did God know, prior to creating the Earth, that humans would fall from grace?

God is omniscient, so yes.

If God is omniscient, and knew prior to creation that humans would fall from grace, and that by creating everything, he set into motion the machinations that would lead to to Adam and Eve eating the fruit--then it can be reasonably deduced that we have no freewill.

For freewill to exist, God can't be omniscient.

careful dude, you might hurt someone with all that logic...

a reply to: ElectricFeel

Why would God make a forbidden fruit even though he knew that it would be eaten?

Its been a while, but from my understanding, the forbidden fruit is irrelevant to the story, mentioned on the Book of Genesis. What is relevant is about our actions that lead us to exile. So what happened is :

1. Broke God´s command not to eat from it, by placing doubt. (Did God really said...?)

2. Wanted to be Gods. (You will be like God....)

3. Blamed each other. ( The woman gave me...The serpent beguiled me...)

The entire concept is ridiculous, and the only conclusion would be that God intentionally let it all happen whilst doing nothing at all to refrain it from becoming what it did.

It is ridiculous if you think that the point of the story mentioned was about a forbidden fruit. But He said not to eat from it or we will die. He must had His reasons by warning us about it. So the conclusion of the statement that He did nothing is wrong.


Peace

originally posted by: stellawayten
a reply to: Ghost147

We have free will. God knows your heart so He know what you will choose. Because He knows the end of the story. He wrote the book. The characters in the book [you, me and everyone else] don't even realize that they are just characters in a story.If God wants to rewrite the story I suppose He can. But I'm not certain because I'm not God.

I'm afraid this is not the case. It doesn't matter if we know, or believe, god is all-knowing. If there is a being out there that knows everything about everything -and it's not the knowledge we have where no matter how much we belief we know, it could still be false, but instead it's divine knowledge where it cannot possibly be incorrect- Then there is nothing in the universe that can escape the outcomes of that being's knowledge. Thus, there is no choice we can make that would be outside the realm of knowledge that being has; rendering "choice" an illusion.

It's not really a difficult concept. Divine knowledge is absolute knowledge, there is no way us mortals can do anything but follow what they have (in your words) written.

If God were to "rewrite the story", then he already knew he was going to rewrite it anyway, so technically even he is bound by his own knowledge. You cannot have free will and all knowing, it is logically impossible.

originally posted by: stellawayten
a reply to: Ghost147

Woah, you have it wrong. You don't go to hell for killing people or any other sin. If that was the case we would all be going to hell. That is the misconception of so many. I use to think that too until I became a follower.

Here is the deal... when you decide to become a follower then you are marked with the seal of God. You will continue to sin because you are human. We all sin (Go against the will of God). Look at the bible as more of an instruction book instead of a rule book. If you follow the instructions you will have a much more fulfilling life. You don't have to follow it but your life will be much more complicated.

So let me get this straight. A person that raped a bunch of children, tortured and murdered them, ate their corpses, and whatever else you could imagine will still go to heaven if they truly believe in god?

Nevermind the example about killing, the point I was attempting to convey was that whatever means we must take in order to get to heaven, you state it's our choices that get there. If we don't make those choices, and alternatively we make the opposite choices that lead us to hell, then we're going to hell. What I am saying is if god already knows that we're going to make whatever choices lead us to hell, then we are already bound by that divine knowledge and it is impossible for us to escape that destiny of ours.

Again, there is no such thing as free will if All knowing divinity exists.

originally posted by: Seed76
a reply to: ElectricFeel

It is ridiculous if you think that the point of the story mentioned was about a forbidden fruit. But He said not to eat from it or we will die. He must had His reasons by warning us about it. So the conclusion of the statement that He did nothing is wrong.

You're not understanding the issue in the OP Quote. It's not about the fruit, it's about choice. God is said to have absolute knowledge about everything. He knows how many atoms exists in the universe, he knows all the secrets of the universe, he knows everything in the past and future, he knows all the choices we will ever make. If he knows all this stuff, and not in the form of knowledge we have (where we could be wrong no matter how much we believe we are correct), but instead he has infallible divine knowledge (where it is impossible for him to be wrong), then everyone and everything must follow his divine knowledge.

It doesn't matter if we know he knows everything that will ever come to be, it's the fact that there is no such thing as choice, if he already knows what choices we will make. There is definitely an illusion of choice, though.

I have an apple and banana in front of me, and I want to eat only one of them. To me, it appears as though I have a choice which one I can eat, but god already knows which one I will take. He knew billions of years ago that I will be sitting exactly where I am, having those two same fruit in front of me. He knows the exact atomic structure of those two fruit even before they grew on their trees. He knows how many atoms will be ripped from the core of the fruit when I devour one of them. And he certainly knows which one I will take, even before I am born.

There is nothing I can do that would dither from this knowledge. So i "choose" the apple. Yet he already knew for an absolute fact that I would do so.

That is the issue.

a reply to: Ghost147

That is the issue.

The issue of "Free Will" or "Choice" as presented here on ATS, is that you want to have absolute freedom. You want to be able to do anything you want to and give account to no one about it.

In reality however " Free will" or "Choice" comes with consequences. Its like the old saying" You made your own bed..". Which is why i said on my previous as you quoted :

[It is ridiculous if you think that the point of the story mentioned was about a forbidden fruit. But He said not to eat from it or we will die. He must had His reasons by warning us about it. So the conclusion of the statement that He did nothing is wrong.

There is nothing I can do that would dither from this knowledge. So i "choose" the apple. Yet he already knew for an absolute fact that I would do so.

I see the matter completely different. "Free will" or "Choice" comes with consequences. In your example you wanted the "apple" and you took the "apple". No one forced you to pick the "apple" instead the "Bananna". Unless of course you want to be told what to "eat", what to "wear" and "what to do".

From a believers prospective you will see in Genesis as i mentioned on my previous post.

1. Broke God´s command not to eat from it, by placing doubt. (Did God really said...?)

2. Wanted to be Gods. (You will be like God....)

3. Blamed each other. ( The woman gave me...The serpent beguiled me...) .

If you however do not believe in God and Creator then the whole issue mentioned in Genesis is about talking snakes and wonder trees.

Peace

originally posted by: Seed76
a reply to: Ghost147
The issue of "Free Will" or "Choice" as presented here on ATS, is that you want to have absolute freedom. You want to be able to do anything you want to and give account to no one about it.

Uh, no... If I had free will and choice, that would mean that I would be accountable for the choices I make. On the other hand, if I had no free will and choice, and I was bound by destiny, then I could do nothing but conform to that destiny weather I realize it or not.

originally posted by: Seed76
a reply to: Ghost147
I see the matter completely different. "Free will" or "Choice" comes with consequences. In your example you wanted the "apple" and you took the "apple". No one forced you to pick the "apple" instead the "Bananna". Unless of course you want to be told what to "eat", what to "wear" and "what to do".

So what you're saying is that within the example I could have chosen the banana, despite god knowing that I would take the apple?

a reply to: Ghost147

A true follower of Christ would not do those things. But yes. According to the bible if you believe in Jesus you shall have everlasting life.

a reply to: Seed76

Friend, your argument was refuted before you made it.

See the posts by LewsTherinThelamon and me above.

a reply to: stellawayten

But someone can commit those acts and then accept Jesus afterwards and be forgiven without any repercussions? And you see no moral issue with this at all?

Also, would you care to share your rebuttal on any of the other points I brought up?

a reply to: ElectricFeel

Forget "the forbidden fruit" part! Here is a question that I find more interesting to contemplate:

Does one actually believe in talking snakes...?

That is the real fruity part of that story.

Perhaps, Satan is a symbolic representation of the human mind's ignorant nature (ego) tempting Eve, the symbolic representation of the life force that animates the human avatar/body (Adam) to remember who we truly are...?

In the video, around the 13 minute mark he states that Evil is derived from the word Eve....

Where did he pluck that idea from...?

The body that scripture calls Eve is a portion of the soul discerned by the five senses. The physical body you wear, be it male or female, is emanated by Eve...

Gematria 101 ^^^

Eve represent the primal life force. Satan represents mind and body. Go back and read that passage you provided in the OP from the Quran as an allegory for mind and body (Adam - physical aspect/flesh). Adam means "red clay".

em·a·nate
ˈeməˌnāt/Submit
verb
past tense: emanated; past participle: emanated
(of something abstract but perceptible) issue or spread out from (a source).
"warmth emanated from the fireplace"
synonyms: originate, stem, derive, proceed, spring, issue, emerge, flow, come
"the proposals emanated from a committee"
originate from; be produced by.
"the proposals emanated from a committee"
synonyms: issue, spread, radiate, be sent forth/out
"warmth emanated from the fireplace"
give out or emit (something abstract but perceptible).
"he emanated a powerful brooding air"
synonyms: exude, emit, radiate, give off/out, send out/forth
"he emanated an air of power"

The tree of good and evil is where that fruit hangs; ego, or the human judging mind is always seeking knowledge of life and self -- does it not?

Seeking to understand the story of Adam and Eve (or anything about life and existence) is due to ego/mind temptations. We do so to our last breath or "Till the Day of the time appointed" --- Resurrection.

Just my personal perspective. Again, I find gematria far easier to accept (makes sense to me) than the belief in talking snakes.

Again, where did that man in the video get the idea that Evil comes from the word Eve?

Adam = Flesh
Eve = Chi/Ki

What tempts you to seek knowledge...?

All is mind.